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Doping in XC skiing

The Clinic is the only place on Cyclingnews where you can discuss doping-related issues. Ask questions, discuss positives or improvements to procedures.

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Re: Doping in XC skiing

11 Jun 2017 17:38

An anabolic steroid is a powerful performance enhancer. But it still needs a big enough dosage to have any affect. Her biopassport showed no difference in her steroid profile, and the story was corroborated by a former police inspector working for Anti Doping Norway who went to the area to investigate.


An athlete's 'steroid profile' should show *no* anabolic steroids. None. The rules say if you want to race you can't have any anabolic steroids in your system. They don't say, 'it's okay to have a little bit', they say none. Small doses over a long time can also have an effect, as could a larger dose taken a long time before an unexpectedly sensitive test took place. That's why the rules say the permitted level is *zero*.
Blaaswix
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Re: Doping in XC skiing

11 Jun 2017 19:53

Blaaswix wrote:
An anabolic steroid is a powerful performance enhancer. But it still needs a big enough dosage to have any affect. Her biopassport showed no difference in her steroid profile, and the story was corroborated by a former police inspector working for Anti Doping Norway who went to the area to investigate.


An athlete's 'steroid profile' should show *no* anabolic steroids. None. The rules say if you want to race you can't have any anabolic steroids in your system. They don't say, 'it's okay to have a little bit', they say none. Small doses over a long time can also have an effect, as could a larger dose taken a long time before an unexpectedly sensitive test took place. That's why the rules say the permitted level is *zero*.


Don't think the profile responds to anabolic steroids, since it's an indirect measure. And for your information, you can have anabolic steroids in your system without having broken any rules.
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12 Jun 2017 03:52

Whichever way this is spun, either Johaug and the Norwegian ski fed are blatant cheats or there was a happy chain of coincidences producing the most improbable outcome. I wonder which one it is.
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Re:

12 Jun 2017 11:29

meat puppet wrote:Whichever way this is spun, either Johaug and the Norwegian ski fed are blatant cheats or there was a happy chain of coincidences producing the most improbable outcome. I wonder which one it is.


I don't see any happy chain of coincidences here. I see a doctor with responsibility to prevent athletes taking the wrong medication and failing to do so. For there to be a chain, there should have been someone else, lets say a doctor in Norway that the doctor calls to double check and he also failed to notice the problem. Not having such a step is on the skiing federation, since it should be well known that humans make mistakes.

And I certainly don't see any cheating. Neither does it appear ADN,FIS,WADA or the IOC do either. Since only FIS appealed, and they are not arguing there was any intent to cheat at all.
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Re: Doping in XC skiing

12 Jun 2017 12:08

ToreBear wrote:
Blaaswix wrote:
An anabolic steroid is a powerful performance enhancer. But it still needs a big enough dosage to have any affect. Her biopassport showed no difference in her steroid profile, and the story was corroborated by a former police inspector working for Anti Doping Norway who went to the area to investigate.


An athlete's 'steroid profile' should show *no* anabolic steroids. None. The rules say if you want to race you can't have any anabolic steroids in your system. They don't say, 'it's okay to have a little bit', they say none. Small doses over a long time can also have an effect, as could a larger dose taken a long time before an unexpectedly sensitive test took place. That's why the rules say the permitted level is *zero*.


Don't think the profile responds to anabolic steroids, since it's an indirect measure. And for your information, you can have anabolic steroids in your system without having broken any rules.


The profile includes some anabolic steroids.
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Re: Re:

12 Jun 2017 13:59

ToreBear wrote:
meat puppet wrote:Whichever way this is spun, either Johaug and the Norwegian ski fed are blatant cheats or there was a happy chain of coincidences producing the most improbable outcome. I wonder which one it is.


I don't see any happy chain of coincidences here. I see a doctor with responsibility to prevent athletes taking the wrong medication and failing to do so. For there to be a chain, there should have been someone else, lets say a doctor in Norway that the doctor calls to double check and he also failed to notice the problem. Not having such a step is on the skiing federation, since it should be well known that humans make mistakes.

And I certainly don't see any cheating. Neither does it appear ADN,FIS,WADA or the IOC do either. Since only FIS appealed, and they are not arguing there was any intent to cheat at all.


You do fail to mention though the strickt liability of the athlete to be responsible of what goes to his/her system which is a written rule of WADA. In all fairness Johaug failed her liability regardless of the acts of any stupid doctor. Let's see if CAS agrees.
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12 Jun 2017 15:36

tyrart has seized being a 'good guy' the moment i kicked him out of my avatar choices and thereafter banned him for life from occupying the honour spot he once enjoyed :D

and i am only half-joking...

along with some wonderful antidoping work, he had been increasingly known for personalizing his 'zero' tolerance' including defaulting into some political aggressive rhetoric a person in his position should be very careful with...
DJPbaltimore:'John Kerry is an honorable person and would not call out the Russians if there was not evidence', 'the 2 of you are russia stooges'
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Re:

12 Jun 2017 17:26

python wrote:tyrart has seized being a 'good guy' the moment i kicked him out of my avatar choices and thereafter banned him for life from occupying the honour spot he once enjoyed :D

and i am only half-joking...

along with some wonderful antidoping work, he had been increasingly known for personalizing his 'zero' tolerance' including defaulting into some political aggressive rhetoric a person in his position should be very careful with...



This. You hit the nail on the head. Tygart got a lot of praise for his involvement in the Lance Armstrong investigation. However, that case was only presented to him (or he took it upon himself with the backing of USADA), only when it became a federal (aka, financial) issue. Plus, nobody did anything until guys like Hamilton and Landis spoke out. I am sure many that spoke out (whether directly, indirectly, privately, publicly, a little bit, a lot, whatever....) had their reasons, and maybe I am wrong in saying this, but they had/have their own agendas, Tygart included. I think the politics that Tygart is trying to involve himself in...or...with, is petty and counter productive to actual anti-doping work. With the language that he is coming up with to describe the Johaug case, in particular comparing it to the case of the Russians, is not helping anyone apart those like Hajo Seppelt, **** Pound and like. But I guess as long as there is money to be had, stuff like this will always be spat out. Plus in this day and age of politics and certain amount of Russophobia, it's no surprise.

My guess is that Johaug will be let off the hook and she'll return when the original ban expires. No way is a high profile Norwegian XC skier going to miss an Olympic games because of a doping infraction.
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Re: Doping in XC skiing

13 Jun 2017 17:58

Here's another recent Norwegian doping case http://www.vg.no/sport/vektloefting/dopingtatte-ruth-kasirye-doemt-til-to-aars-utestengelse/a/24070810/

Summary:
Norwegian weightlifter travels to Africa where she contracts malaria. She gets hospital treatment which includes meldonium. The athlete says the last day she took it was 1.1.16, the day it was added to WADAs banned list. Her doctor confirms this. Anti doping Norway thinks she took it for longer, up to 18.1.16 They also believe that she did not take it to gain a competitive advantage but she should have checked what was in her medicine.

Decision: two year suspension.
Blaaswix
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Re: Doping in XC skiing

14 Jun 2017 14:55

ToreBear wrote:An anabolic steroid is a powerful performance enhancer. But it still needs a big enough dosage to have any affect.
Not even you belive this. Of course steroids enhance performance in ANY amount. You've made me really laugh. Amount of lying you do to defend your Norwegian fellas is ridiculous :)

The idiot mistake was by the Doctor who didn't do his job, and the medical apparatus of the national team which didn't have any routines to prevent one human error to have such an effect. It's all in the Antidoping judgement,
which I suspect Tygart has read: https://www.idrettsforbundet.no/tema/juss/informasjon-om-therese-johaug-saken/

The mistake was both doctor and Johaug. She is responsible for what she takes, isn't she?
Kokoso
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Re: Doping in XC skiing

14 Jun 2017 15:15

Blaaswix wrote:Here's another recent Norwegian doping case http://www.vg.no/sport/vektloefting/dopingtatte-ruth-kasirye-doemt-til-to-aars-utestengelse/a/24070810/

Summary:
Norwegian weightlifter travels to Africa where she contracts malaria. She gets hospital treatment which includes meldonium. The athlete says the last day she took it was 1.1.16, the day it was added to WADAs banned list. Her doctor confirms this. Anti doping Norway thinks she took it for longer, up to 18.1.16 They also believe that she did not take it to gain a competitive advantage but she should have checked what was in her medicine.

Decision: two year suspension.

For an outsider it seems that ADNO willingly accepted all the anomalities from the doctor and athlete in the Johaug case, but expressed mistrust to the explanations by the athlete and doctor in the weightlifter case.

Looking on the pictures makes you wonder............No, it has nothing to do with race. Remember, it's the best democracy in the world.
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/norway-world-s-best-democracy-we-asked-its-people-why-n720151
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Re: Doping in XC skiing

14 Jun 2017 15:19

Kokoso wrote:
ToreBear wrote:An anabolic steroid is a powerful performance enhancer. But it still needs a big enough dosage to have any affect.
Not even you belive this. Of course steroids enhance performance in ANY amount. You've made me really laugh. Amount of lying you do to defend your Norwegian fellas is ridiculous :)

The idiot mistake was by the Doctor who didn't do his job, and the medical apparatus of the national team which didn't have any routines to prevent one human error to have such an effect. It's all in the Antidoping judgement,
which I suspect Tygart has read: https://www.idrettsforbundet.no/tema/juss/informasjon-om-therese-johaug-saken/

The mistake was both doctor and Johaug. She is responsible for what she takes, isn't she?


Stop being pedantic, and stop accusing people of lying. It makes you seem like a child.
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14 Jun 2017 20:29

Discgear, this judgment makes me think Johaug could be handed a two year suspension by CAS.
Blaaswix
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Re: Doping in XC skiing

14 Jun 2017 22:34

ToreBear wrote:
Kokoso wrote:
ToreBear wrote:An anabolic steroid is a powerful performance enhancer. But it still needs a big enough dosage to have any affect.
Not even you belive this. Of course steroids enhance performance in ANY amount. You've made me really laugh. Amount of lying you do to defend your Norwegian fellas is ridiculous :)

The idiot mistake was by the Doctor who didn't do his job, and the medical apparatus of the national team which didn't have any routines to prevent one human error to have such an effect. It's all in the Antidoping judgement,
which I suspect Tygart has read: https://www.idrettsforbundet.no/tema/juss/informasjon-om-therese-johaug-saken/

The mistake was both doctor and Johaug. She is responsible for what she takes, isn't she?


Stop being pedantic, and stop accusing people of lying. It makes you seem like a child.

Lol you've just confirmed my words, do you realize that? :D funny
Kokoso
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