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Most memorable doped perfomances?

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17 Mar 2018 18:44

Yes great list but Pantani's Giro Tour double of 1998 deserves greater emphasis. To me nothing better since.
Cookster15
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Re:

17 Mar 2018 19:01

Cookster15 wrote:Yes great list but Pantani's Giro Tour double of 1998 deserves greater emphasis. To me nothing better since.

Really? Pantani's double deserves greater emphesis than someone like Armstrong and 7 tours? That's interesting and I'm not disputing what you said, I agree that Pantani's performance in 98 is spectacularly doped, but he had much more talent than Armstrong ever had, no?
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Re: Re:

17 Mar 2018 22:22

Irondan wrote:
Cookster15 wrote:Yes great list but Pantani's Giro Tour double of 1998 deserves greater emphasis. To me nothing better since.

Really? Pantani's double deserves greater emphesis than someone like Armstrong and 7 tours? That's interesting and I'm not disputing what you said, I agree that Pantani's performance in 98 is spectacularly doped, but he had much more talent than Armstrong ever had, no?

Climbing talent, sure. Pantani's ITT performances were so over the top in the '98 Giro it was comical.
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17 Mar 2018 23:12

Lance won Worlds at age 21 with only "low-octane" doping (if anyone believes that), he had loads of talent.
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Re:

18 Mar 2018 00:55

zlev11 wrote:Lance won Worlds at age 21 with only "low-octane" doping (if anyone believes that), he had loads of talent.

I believe he was referring to GC talent, of which Armstrong had none
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18 Mar 2018 01:08

Amazinmets87 wrote:
zlev11 wrote:Lance won Worlds at age 21 with only "low-octane" doping (if anyone believes that), he had loads of talent.

I believe he was referring to GC talent, of which Armstrong had none

How can you tell? His first full pro season was in 1993 and his first GT was in 1995. In that era all the top riders were doping heavily. How could he show GC talent clean (or at least less doped). He was only 24 when he was diagnosed with cancer.
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Re: Re:

18 Mar 2018 05:26

Irondan wrote:
Cookster15 wrote:Yes great list but Pantani's Giro Tour double of 1998 deserves greater emphasis. To me nothing better since.

Really? Pantani's double deserves greater emphesis than someone like Armstrong and 7 tours? That's interesting and I'm not disputing what you said, I agree that Pantani's performance in 98 is spectacularly doped, but he had much more talent than Armstrong ever had, no?


Of course I think Pantani had more talent than Armstrong. But the thread title is "most memorable doped performance" and I posted based upon this not the OP's comment in his first paragraph which to me is a little contradictory.

Pantani's 1998 double and particularly his spectacular attack on the stage 15 to Les Deux Alpes to completely demoralise Jan Ullrich was for me hands down the most memorable doped performance I have ever seen. Of course I, like all cycling fans who have been following this sport since 1987 have seen many others but they don't stick in my memory.

Pantani of 1998 backing up from the Giro against defending champ Ullrich was the David Vs Goliath. It was memorable and amazing to watch. He fired a warning shot on Plateau de Beille but I could hardly believe what occurred in stage 15. Marco made the entire peloton, full of dopers, look second rate. Armstrong's 7 Tours and the might of US Postal are to me forgettable. Absolutely for me this was the most memorable doped performance even if it was not the most blatant out of nowhere as being discussed elsewhere in this thread.
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Re:

18 Mar 2018 14:00

zlev11 wrote:Lance won Worlds at age 21 with only "low-octane" doping (if anyone believes that), he had loads of talent.


Lance's coach in those years was a former USA olympic coach with links to doping. I wouldn't call that low octane.
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Re: Re:

18 Mar 2018 22:24

Cookster15 wrote:
Irondan wrote:
Cookster15 wrote:Yes great list but Pantani's Giro Tour double of 1998 deserves greater emphasis. To me nothing better since.

Really? Pantani's double deserves greater emphesis than someone like Armstrong and 7 tours? That's interesting and I'm not disputing what you said, I agree that Pantani's performance in 98 is spectacularly doped, but he had much more talent than Armstrong ever had, no?


Of course I think Pantani had more talent than Armstrong. But the thread title is "most memorable doped performance" and I posted based upon this not the OP's comment in his first paragraph which to me is a little contradictory.


I actually read it as "most memorably doped performance". With the racing performance not mattering that much, but focus being on the doping "performance"; someone doping in a memorably - stupid - way. I'm talking giving yourself a blood transfusion and almost killing yourself, or whatever the heck it was Ricco did...
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Re:

19 Mar 2018 18:18

Cookster15 wrote:Yes great list but Pantani's Giro Tour double of 1998 deserves greater emphasis. To me nothing better since.


His double was only successful due to Ullrich's spectacular blow-up in rainy conditions. Winning 7 consecutive Tours with only one real challenge faced (2003) during those 7 years has to beat anything Pantani did.
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19 Mar 2018 18:33

Pantani, Ricco, the chicken, etc. Landis still takes the cake for me when I think of a doped ride.
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Re: Re:

20 Mar 2018 03:29

Parker wrote:
Amazinmets87 wrote:
zlev11 wrote:Lance won Worlds at age 21 with only "low-octane" doping (if anyone believes that), he had loads of talent.

I believe he was referring to GC talent, of which Armstrong had none

How can you tell? His first full pro season was in 1993 and his first GT was in 1995. In that era all the top riders were doping heavily. How could he show GC talent clean (or at least less doped). He was only 24 when he was diagnosed with cancer.

He was doping just as heavily and displayed no climbing ability in spite of a 55+ hematocrit
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20 Mar 2018 05:28

GuyIncognito: super classy post. Best thing I've read in these parts for ages.

What really stands out is, as you point out, the 'come from nowhere and then fall off a cliff'. And the in between, absolutely smashing the best of the best.
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20 Mar 2018 05:38

Agreed. In hindsight it's all so very obvious.

I'm hoping Froome tanks this year.
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Re: Re:

20 Mar 2018 09:22

Angliru wrote:
Cookster15 wrote:Yes great list but Pantani's Giro Tour double of 1998 deserves greater emphasis. To me nothing better since.


His double was only successful due to Ullrich's spectacular blow-up in rainy conditions. Winning 7 consecutive Tours with only one real challenge faced (2003) during those 7 years has to beat anything Pantani did.


Disagree. Pantani was memorable because he was an underdog. Armstrong wasn't. Did you actually watch that stage in 1998? Yes Ullrich blew but nobody else was on the same planet either plus he attacked on the harder side of the Galibier, was re joined in the valley at foot of Les Deux Alpes then put another 2 minutes on Rodolfo Massi in 10km. Bobby Julich? +5 minutes 43!! Yep no more memorable doped performance for me.
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21 Mar 2018 00:37

When I examine my own memories, I think Riis' '96 tdf was the stand out. Every year during the Indurain reign I would hope against hope for the pretender(s) to dethrone him - in '91 I wanted Lemond (okay, not a pretender in this case) to win, in '92 Bugno or Chiapucci, in '93 Rominger, in '94 Pantani, in '95 Zulle.....and how the hell, of all the great champions, it ends up being Riis who puts him to the sword: I just couldn't fathom that. And that's the thing about memorable doped performances - they just do not make sense at the time.

The next one was definitely Armstrong. I was sitting there thinking 'how the hell is this classics guy climbing with the climbers?' I actually didn't know about epo at the time, but I just couldn't accept it, hence a long exodus from watching the sport.
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Re:

21 Mar 2018 10:29

The Hegelian wrote:When I examine my own memories, I think Riis' '96 tdf was the stand out. Every year during the Indurain reign I would hope against hope for the pretender(s) to dethrone him - in '91 I wanted Lemond (okay, not a pretender in this case) to win, in '92 Bugno or Chiapucci, in '93 Rominger, in '94 Pantani, in '95 Zulle.....and how the hell, of all the great champions, it ends up being Riis who puts him to the sword: I just couldn't fathom that. And that's the thing about memorable doped performances - they just do not make sense at the time.

The next one was definitely Armstrong. I was sitting there thinking 'how the hell is this classics guy climbing with the climbers?' I actually didn't know about epo at the time, but I just couldn't accept it, hence a long exodus from watching the sport.

This. Riis on Hautacam was, and still is, the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen on a bike. The whole performance looked so unnatural; like a pro rider toying with some amateurs on a sportive.
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Re: Re:

22 Mar 2018 02:06

DFA123 wrote:
The Hegelian wrote:When I examine my own memories, I think Riis' '96 tdf was the stand out. Every year during the Indurain reign I would hope against hope for the pretender(s) to dethrone him - in '91 I wanted Lemond (okay, not a pretender in this case) to win, in '92 Bugno or Chiapucci, in '93 Rominger, in '94 Pantani, in '95 Zulle.....and how the hell, of all the great champions, it ends up being Riis who puts him to the sword: I just couldn't fathom that. And that's the thing about memorable doped performances - they just do not make sense at the time.

The next one was definitely Armstrong. I was sitting there thinking 'how the hell is this classics guy climbing with the climbers?' I actually didn't know about epo at the time, but I just couldn't accept it, hence a long exodus from watching the sport.

This. Riis on Hautacam was, and still is, the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen on a bike. The whole performance looked so unnatural; like a pro rider toying with some amateurs on a sportive.


I saw a doco about it last year or the year before - Riis was saying that none of his teammates believed in him. But he knew. He got the formula, mastered it, and knew he could execute it to perfection. It was actually quite cool to see the story from his side - rendered something absolutey alien into something actually very human. Human, all to human as Nietzsche would say.
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Re: Re:

24 Mar 2018 08:45

DFA123 wrote:
The Hegelian wrote:When I examine my own memories, I think Riis' '96 tdf was the stand out. Every year during the Indurain reign I would hope against hope for the pretender(s) to dethrone him - in '91 I wanted Lemond (okay, not a pretender in this case) to win, in '92 Bugno or Chiapucci, in '93 Rominger, in '94 Pantani, in '95 Zulle.....and how the hell, of all the great champions, it ends up being Riis who puts him to the sword: I just couldn't fathom that. And that's the thing about memorable doped performances - they just do not make sense at the time.

The next one was definitely Armstrong. I was sitting there thinking 'how the hell is this classics guy climbing with the climbers?' I actually didn't know about epo at the time, but I just couldn't accept it, hence a long exodus from watching the sport.

This. Riis on Hautacam was, and still is, the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen on a bike. The whole performance looked so unnatural; like a pro rider toying with some amateurs on a sportive.


His Amstel win was full retard too
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Re: Re:

24 Mar 2018 11:57

Angliru wrote:
Cookster15 wrote:Yes great list but Pantani's Giro Tour double of 1998 deserves greater emphasis. To me nothing better since.


His double was only successful due to Ullrich's spectacular blow-up in rainy conditions. Winning 7 consecutive Tours with only one real challenge faced (2003) during those 7 years has to beat anything Pantani did.

Maybe in the 7 tours case we have to say "the most memorable doped performance by a team" as well.
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