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Official "another interesting piece I found on Floyd Landis" Thread

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Re: Re:

07 Aug 2016 19:23

DamianoMachiavelli wrote:I have discussed this with Floyd many times. He still insists that he was not using testosterone during that Tour. There has been a lot of things he has told me to keep to myself. I feel pretty confident that he would feel comfortable enough to say, "Of course I was using testosterone! Don't tell anybody."


But what all DID he use??? He is very quick to say he didnt use test, I have yet to see a full accounting of what PEDs he was on.
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Re: Official "another interesting piece I found on Floyd Lan

30 Aug 2016 09:54

Here is an interesting anecdote relating to Floyd Landis and Tyler Hamilton.

It was well established already in 2004 when Tyler Hamilton was busted for blood doping, that Hamilton was called to have a meeting in the UCI headquarters on his blood values shortly after he performed well in the 2004 Dauphiné Liberé, that is on June 2004.

When confessing his PED use in 2012, Hamilton made a twist to the story by revealing that Floyd Landis had told him that it was actually Lance Armstrong who had behind the mystery call from UCI, as Hamilton tells that Floyd told the following during the 2004 Tour, just a few weeks after the mystery meeting with the UCI:
You need to know something.... Lande called the UCI on you. He called Hein, after Ventoux. Said you guys and Mayo were on some new ****, told Hein to get you. He knew they'd called you in. He's been telking **** nonstop. And I think it's right that you know."
The Secret Race, p. 265


Almost every author seems to have taken the juicy story with face value even when Hein Verbruggen denied the connection and even in the CIRC-report there is no confirmation to the story, quite to the contrary. The story cames in a strange light because Floyd Landis related to the episode in an interview some half years ago:

But the more outrageous comment comes from Armstrong, who is now the self-appointed hypocrisy police. The formerly most powerful person in cycling, who allegedly used his connections to have the UCI target Tyler Hamilton and others, while doping himself, has become a satirical version of himself. For him to use the word hypocrisy in any context other than when facing a mirror is simply laughable.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/landis-lance-armstrong-has-become-the-self-appointed-hypocrisy-police/

"Allegedly"? Maybe I put too much emphasis on just one word, but the choise of word "allegedly" in this context is very curious as Landis is the only source on the alleged ratting out of Tyler Hamilton. Floyd is the only one who knows and he seems to be very ambivalent, if not washing his hands out of the whole episode.
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Re: Official "another interesting piece I found on Floyd Lan

30 Aug 2016 15:07

Aragon wrote:Here is an interesting anecdote relating to Floyd Landis and Tyler Hamilton.

It was well established already in 2004 when Tyler Hamilton was busted for blood doping, that Hamilton was called to have a meeting in the UCI headquarters on his blood values shortly after he performed well in the 2004 Dauphiné Liberé, that is on June 2004.

When confessing his PED use in 2012, Hamilton made a twist to the story by revealing that Floyd Landis had told him that it was actually Lance Armstrong who had behind the mystery call from UCI, as Hamilton tells that Floyd told the following during the 2004 Tour, just a few weeks after the mystery meeting with the UCI:
You need to know something.... Lande called the UCI on you. He called Hein, after Ventoux. Said you guys and Mayo were on some new ****, told Hein to get you. He knew they'd called you in. He's been telking **** nonstop. And I think it's right that you know."
The Secret Race, p. 265


Almost every author seems to have taken the juicy story with face value even when Hein Verbruggen denied the connection and even in the CIRC-report there is no confirmation to the story, quite to the contrary. The story cames in a strange light because Floyd Landis related to the episode in an interview some half years ago:

But the more outrageous comment comes from Armstrong, who is now the self-appointed hypocrisy police. The formerly most powerful person in cycling, who allegedly used his connections to have the UCI target Tyler Hamilton and others, while doping himself, has become a satirical version of himself. For him to use the word hypocrisy in any context other than when facing a mirror is simply laughable.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/landis-lance-armstrong-has-become-the-self-appointed-hypocrisy-police/

"Allegedly"? Maybe I put too much emphasis on just one word, but the choise of word "allegedly" in this context is very curious as Landis is the only source on the alleged ratting out of Tyler Hamilton. Floyd is the only one who knows and he seems to be very ambivalent, if not washing his hands out of the whole episode.


I'd take whatever Verbruggen said with a piece of piss.

Landis got some smarts and uses the word 'allegedly' as without it he is in trouble with no proof. And a conversation bewtween 2 people where 1 denies what he said would not stand up in court if it got there. Allegedly is used all the time for this reason. Dont make it untrue. But there a lot of riders who left USPS, who were seen as possible threats to Armstrong tested positive. Why or how has yet to be properly explained. We know Armstrong was vicious, we have proof of that, so based on that, his connections with UCI, it is probable that he got people popped, 'allegedly'.
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Re: Official "another interesting piece I found on Floyd Lan

30 Aug 2016 17:27

Benotti69 wrote:I'd take whatever Verbruggen said with a piece of piss.

Landis got some smarts and uses the word 'allegedly' as without it he is in trouble with no proof. And a conversation bewtween 2 people where 1 denies what he said would not stand up in court if it got there. Allegedly is used all the time for this reason. Dont make it untrue. But there a lot of riders who left USPS, who were seen as possible threats to Armstrong tested positive. Why or how has yet to be properly explained. We know Armstrong was vicious, we have proof of that, so based on that, his connections with UCI, it is probable that he got people popped, 'allegedly'.

As I mentioned in my original post, I agree that one shouldn't draw too much conclusions about one choice of word. On the other hand, the affidavit of Landis is full of instances about one-to-one dialogues with different people and he doesn't seem at all reluctant to provide these instances to the USADA even when the evidence is quite damning on various people:
"Ferrari and I discussed how the blood transfusion process would work..."
"Armstrong and I had lengthy discussion about the [blood] extraction... Armstrong also explained to me the evolution of EPO testing..."
"Armstrong further stated that the subsequently tested positive for EPO while winning the Tour de Suisse..."
"In the [2002] meeting, Mr. [Bill] Stapleton specifically referenced the fact that he was aware of the extent to which I had been doping..."

Armstrong's connections to the UCI are another topic where the matter is far from settled. The CIRC-staff apparently didn't find anything unusual about the Hamilton's 2004 mystery call incident:
UCI also provided intelligence obtained through the analyses of the samples to riders. Instead of using this information to perform target testing on suspicious athletes, the athlete would be warned, and sometimes in case of important riderseven invited to the UCI headquarters to discuss the abnormal values. This practice was ongoing for a very long time.
CIRC-report, pp. 124-125
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Re: Official "another interesting piece I found on Floyd Lan

30 Aug 2016 18:46

Aragon wrote:
Benotti69 wrote:I'd take whatever Verbruggen said with a piece of piss.

Landis got some smarts and uses the word 'allegedly' as without it he is in trouble with no proof. And a conversation bewtween 2 people where 1 denies what he said would not stand up in court if it got there. Allegedly is used all the time for this reason. Dont make it untrue. But there a lot of riders who left USPS, who were seen as possible threats to Armstrong tested positive. Why or how has yet to be properly explained. We know Armstrong was vicious, we have proof of that, so based on that, his connections with UCI, it is probable that he got people popped, 'allegedly'.

As I mentioned in my original post, I agree that one shouldn't draw too much conclusions about one choice of word. On the other hand, the affidavit of Landis is full of instances about one-to-one dialogues with different people and he doesn't seem at all reluctant to provide these instances to the USADA even when the evidence is quite damning on various people:
"Ferrari and I discussed how the blood transfusion process would work..."
"Armstrong and I had lengthy discussion about the [blood] extraction... Armstrong also explained to me the evolution of EPO testing..."
"Armstrong further stated that the subsequently tested positive for EPO while winning the Tour de Suisse..."
"In the [2002] meeting, Mr. [Bill] Stapleton specifically referenced the fact that he was aware of the extent to which I had been doping..."

Armstrong's connections to the UCI are another topic where the matter is far from settled. The CIRC-staff apparently didn't find anything unusual about the Hamilton's 2004 mystery call incident:
UCI also provided intelligence obtained through the analyses of the samples to riders. Instead of using this information to perform target testing on suspicious athletes, the athlete would be warned, and sometimes in case of important riderseven invited to the UCI headquarters to discuss the abnormal values. This practice was ongoing for a very long time.
CIRC-report, pp. 124-125


CIRC report is incomplete, considering how few riders talked to them.

I think the important aspect of Hamilton's story is more about whether Armstrong had that 'influence' over another rider testing positive.

So while Hamilton/Landis told the story, it is more about Armstrong than Landis thread material.
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Re: Official "another interesting piece I found on Floyd Lan

31 Aug 2016 04:07

Benotti69 wrote:
Aragon wrote:
Benotti69 wrote:I'd take whatever Verbruggen said with a piece of piss.

Landis got some smarts and uses the word 'allegedly' as without it he is in trouble with no proof. And a conversation bewtween 2 people where 1 denies what he said would not stand up in court if it got there. Allegedly is used all the time for this reason. Dont make it untrue. But there a lot of riders who left USPS, who were seen as possible threats to Armstrong tested positive. Why or how has yet to be properly explained. We know Armstrong was vicious, we have proof of that, so based on that, his connections with UCI, it is probable that he got people popped, 'allegedly'.

As I mentioned in my original post, I agree that one shouldn't draw too much conclusions about one choice of word. On the other hand, the affidavit of Landis is full of instances about one-to-one dialogues with different people and he doesn't seem at all reluctant to provide these instances to the USADA even when the evidence is quite damning on various people:
"Ferrari and I discussed how the blood transfusion process would work..."
"Armstrong and I had lengthy discussion about the [blood] extraction... Armstrong also explained to me the evolution of EPO testing..."
"Armstrong further stated that the subsequently tested positive for EPO while winning the Tour de Suisse..."
"In the [2002] meeting, Mr. [Bill] Stapleton specifically referenced the fact that he was aware of the extent to which I had been doping..."

Armstrong's connections to the UCI are another topic where the matter is far from settled. The CIRC-staff apparently didn't find anything unusual about the Hamilton's 2004 mystery call incident:
UCI also provided intelligence obtained through the analyses of the samples to riders. Instead of using this information to perform target testing on suspicious athletes, the athlete would be warned, and sometimes in case of important riderseven invited to the UCI headquarters to discuss the abnormal values. This practice was ongoing for a very long time.
CIRC-report, pp. 124-125


CIRC report is incomplete, considering how few riders talked to them.

I think the important aspect of Hamilton's story is more about whether Armstrong had that 'influence' over another rider testing positive.

So while Hamilton/Landis told the story, it is more about Armstrong than Landis thread material.

I'm more curious about the bolded, than the word 'allegedly'... like, who else was ratted on...
But the more outrageous comment comes from Armstrong, who is now the self-appointed hypocrisy police. The formerly most powerful person in cycling, who allegedly used his connections to have the UCI target Tyler Hamilton and others, while doping himself, has become a satirical version of himself. For him to use the word hypocrisy in any context other than when facing a mirror is simply laughable.
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31 Aug 2016 06:48

i'm curious about both.
I think it's a good spot from aragon, although indeed it could merely be floyd's way of speaking in that cyclingnews piece. He's not under oath there like he is in the affidavit and i guess this being a cyclingnews piece it is more sensitive to libel issues (?), which could've prompted Floyd to add in the 'allegedly'. But still, curious, it can certainly be taken to suggest that Floyd isn't the primary source for that rumor after all.

More generally, and I'm not saying this is one such instance, but it seems pretty clear to me that people have made stuff up about Lance as they went along, and too many readers, imo, have eagerly and uncritically bought any negative story that came out about Lance in the aftermath of the Floyd emails.
Lemond's "Lance offered 300k to rat me out" story is a nice case in point. It has been presented as fact by many, whereas the only source of the story seems to be Lemond himself.

Disclaimer: whether Lance *deserves* that lies or halftruths are circulating about him is another question all together, one that doesn't really interest me personally.

@archibald: good spot, too. Would be nice to have both the 'allegedly' and the 'and others' clarified.
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Re: Official "another interesting piece I found on Floyd Lan

31 Aug 2016 08:29

Benotti69 wrote:
Aragon wrote:
Benotti69 wrote:I'd take whatever Verbruggen said with a piece of piss.

Landis got some smarts and uses the word 'allegedly' as without it he is in trouble with no proof. And a conversation bewtween 2 people where 1 denies what he said would not stand up in court if it got there. Allegedly is used all the time for this reason. Dont make it untrue. But there a lot of riders who left USPS, who were seen as possible threats to Armstrong tested positive. Why or how has yet to be properly explained. We know Armstrong was vicious, we have proof of that, so based on that, his connections with UCI, it is probable that he got people popped, 'allegedly'.

As I mentioned in my original post, I agree that one shouldn't draw too much conclusions about one choice of word. On the other hand, the affidavit of Landis is full of instances about one-to-one dialogues with different people and he doesn't seem at all reluctant to provide these instances to the USADA even when the evidence is quite damning on various people:
"Ferrari and I discussed how the blood transfusion process would work..."
"Armstrong and I had lengthy discussion about the [blood] extraction... Armstrong also explained to me the evolution of EPO testing..."
"Armstrong further stated that the subsequently tested positive for EPO while winning the Tour de Suisse..."
"In the [2002] meeting, Mr. [Bill] Stapleton specifically referenced the fact that he was aware of the extent to which I had been doping..."

Armstrong's connections to the UCI are another topic where the matter is far from settled. The CIRC-staff apparently didn't find anything unusual about the Hamilton's 2004 mystery call incident:
UCI also provided intelligence obtained through the analyses of the samples to riders. Instead of using this information to perform target testing on suspicious athletes, the athlete would be warned, and sometimes in case of important riderseven invited to the UCI headquarters to discuss the abnormal values. This practice was ongoing for a very long time.
CIRC-report, pp. 124-125


CIRC report is incomplete, considering how few riders talked to them.

I think the important aspect of Hamilton's story is more about whether Armstrong had that 'influence' over another rider testing positive.

So while Hamilton/Landis told the story, it is more about Armstrong than Landis thread material.


Ben I think you are asking too much. We know that the UCI were not into popping their stars. Calling him in and leaning on a guy like Tyler would be right up their street and that is not to talk it down what it does show is corruption of a totally unacceptable nature. One "favoured" rider can gossip about another and the governance of the sport does his dirty work. Now that is something that Cookson could hang out Verbruggen to dry with. At the moment we have the boot on entirely the other foot with Hein seeking and being granted compensation from Cookson via the pockets of the UCI. This is something Cookson needs to dig up and get into the open. A chance for retribution, particularly if the judge rules against Lance and a case goes ahead, this would be a great move to make simultaneously.

At the moment the only person we have claiming they were popped when not using the stuff is Floyd '06 and the explanation for that is wrongful execution of the lab test of the sample - repeated spinning until the threshold for content was breached. Ten years on and we have nobody coming forward and saying the result was entirely falsified because x, y or z told us to make it so - it is possible, but the former explanation is more likely.
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Re: Official "another interesting piece I found on Floyd Lan

01 Sep 2016 04:37

Aragon wrote:Here is an interesting anecdote relating to Floyd Landis and Tyler Hamilton.

It was well established already in 2004 when Tyler Hamilton was busted for blood doping, that Hamilton was called to have a meeting in the UCI headquarters on his blood values shortly after he performed well in the 2004 Dauphiné Liberé, that is on June 2004.

When confessing his PED use in 2012, Hamilton made a twist to the story by revealing that Floyd Landis had told him that it was actually Lance Armstrong who had behind the mystery call from UCI, as Hamilton tells that Floyd told the following during the 2004 Tour, just a few weeks after the mystery meeting with the UCI:
You need to know something.... Lande called the UCI on you. He called Hein, after Ventoux. Said you guys and Mayo were on some new ****, told Hein to get you. He knew they'd called you in. He's been telking **** nonstop. And I think it's right that you know."
The Secret Race, p. 265


Almost every author seems to have taken the juicy story with face value even when Hein Verbruggen denied the connection and even in the CIRC-report there is no confirmation to the story, quite to the contrary. The story cames in a strange light because Floyd Landis related to the episode in an interview some half years ago:

But the more outrageous comment comes from Armstrong, who is now the self-appointed hypocrisy police. The formerly most powerful person in cycling, who allegedly used his connections to have the UCI target Tyler Hamilton and others, while doping himself, has become a satirical version of himself. For him to use the word hypocrisy in any context other than when facing a mirror is simply laughable.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/landis-lance-armstrong-has-become-the-self-appointed-hypocrisy-police/

"Allegedly"? Maybe I put too much emphasis on just one word, but the choise of word "allegedly" in this context is very curious as Landis is the only source on the alleged ratting out of Tyler Hamilton. Floyd is the only one who knows and he seems to be very ambivalent, if not washing his hands out of the whole episode.


Some riders were using homologous blood doping. Notably members of a certain Basque team. Armstrong (and others) did not want to go down that route. It introduces all sorts of risks. That is the reason LA paid for the UCI's Sysmex machine. That is the truth, but go ahead and believe in the Sauron-like conspiracy nonsense promoted by RR and B!tichy.

Hamilton was caught in the cross fire. His blood values were way out of whack. He was given every opportunity by the UCI to dial back his program but he didn't listen. If he had been smarter, toned it down, and picked and chosen his races instead of being super jacked for everything from the Ardennes to the Dauphine to the Tour to the Olympics to the Vuelta then ya'll would now be talking about how Hamilton was protected by the UCI.
"Their world is crumbling. Ours is being built."
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16 Nov 2017 13:55

User avatar fmk_RoI
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16 Nov 2017 14:52

I've hesitated to say this, I've said it once or twice before in public and I got kind of crucified for it but at the end of the day, it's all fine and good to believe that, you know, these, that sports should be fair and that, first of all sports aren't fair, somebody's born inherently better than the other guy, that's the whole point of the game, right, so ... people are going to try find ways to either close that spread or beat the other guys or whatever, and there's, there's simply no way to stop it, and they need, they need to just allow it, they need to, if they're really concerned about health they can monitor it, but the fact of the matter is nobody, nobody's dying from this stuff in, in sports events and they can't stop it and right now it's, it's worse, it's doing more harm to kids, kids who are looking at, at trying to become an athlete ... than, than if you just were honest with them, said look, this, if that's what you aspire to be this is what you're going to face, instead they're just lying, we have the anti-doping associations, they're just a façade and they're a PR side of the Olympic committee and they want to sell the Olympics, that's a huge money machine, it's a huge ... corrupt machine, and it's a huge fraud, it's a lot like FIFA, it's, it's run by old, corrupt, white men, and they like the idea that they can make it look as though this is fair and this is clean and we have all these people competing and it's like everything is wonderful and everyone gets a hug at the end but that's all a lie, it's all about the billions of dollars in television revenue, and they know that they're not stopping it they know their tests don't work, they know, this is the saddest part for me, I watch the Tour, from time to time, and I know exactly what's going on, and it's exactly the same as when I was racing, and so, but what bothers me about those agencies is they won't, they just won't be honest, they won't face the truth, that taking me down and taking Lance Armstrong down did absolutely nothing, it was an utter failure.
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16 Nov 2017 16:56

Lmao, of course he had to bring up white men. Dear god.
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16 Nov 2017 17:16

Thanks for that. I won't have to waste any time on that tripe from Landis
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17 Nov 2017 01:23

Robbie Ventura still has Floyd's autographed PHONAK jersey, framed on the wall of his gym as a trophy. I laughed when I saw it there recently.
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Re:

21 Nov 2017 18:40


The interviewer was horrible beyond belief. Except for departing on the occasional social justice tangent, FLandis wasn't that bad. He did make a couple points I found relevant. He admitted he had used HGH, which I don't recall hearing/reading him admitting before. And he also stated that peptides were the PED du jour in the peloton because they are infinitely manipulate-able to evade detection. I'd been wondering what new PEDs they were up to ever since Contador's positive, because whatever it was gave him the ability to attack like he had a rocket up his bum (and which didn't return after his suspension), it wasn't clenbuterol in parts per billion.
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Re:

21 Nov 2017 20:34

fmk_RoI wrote:
I've hesitated to say this, I've said it once or twice before in public and I got kind of crucified for it but at the end of the day, it's all fine and good to believe that, you know, these, that sports should be fair and that, first of all sports aren't fair, somebody's born inherently better than the other guy, that's the whole point of the game, right, so ... people are going to try find ways to either close that spread or beat the other guys or whatever, and there's, there's simply no way to stop it, and they need, they need to just allow it, they need to, if they're really concerned about health they can monitor it, but the fact of the matter is nobody, nobody's dying from this stuff in, in sports events and they can't stop it and right now it's, it's worse, it's doing more harm to kids, kids who are looking at, at trying to become an athlete ... than, than if you just were honest with them, said look, this, if that's what you aspire to be this is what you're going to face, instead they're just lying, we have the anti-doping associations, they're just a façade and they're a PR side of the Olympic committee and they want to sell the Olympics, that's a huge money machine, it's a huge ... corrupt machine, and it's a huge fraud, it's a lot like FIFA, it's, it's run by old, corrupt, white men, and they like the idea that they can make it look as though this is fair and this is clean and we have all these people competing and it's like everything is wonderful and everyone gets a hug at the end but that's all a lie, it's all about the billions of dollars in television revenue, and they know that they're not stopping it they know their tests don't work, they know, this is the saddest part for me, I watch the Tour, from time to time, and I know exactly what's going on, and it's exactly the same as when I was racing, and so, but what bothers me about those agencies is they won't, they just won't be honest, they won't face the truth, that taking me down and taking Lance Armstrong down did absolutely nothing, it was an utter failure.


NFL is killing plenty, not on the field but lots die prematurely.

Some footballers(soccer) died on the field and one was saved due to a specialist heart doctor being at the match and getting involved.

I would guess others have died from doping or have had their lives changed due to PED use.

Did Wouter Weylandts die because something like Tramadol affected his descending ability and he misjudged a corner?

The idea that they would monitor doping well or even fairly is laughable. They cant prevent it, how would they monitor it?
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Re: Re:

21 Nov 2017 21:57

Benotti69 wrote:Did Wouter Weylandts die because something like Tramadol affected his descending ability and he misjudged a corner?
A new low for the Clinic.
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Re: Re:

21 Nov 2017 22:24

fmk_RoI wrote:
Benotti69 wrote:Did Wouter Weylandts die because something like Tramadol affected his descending ability and he misjudged a corner?
A new low for the Clinic.

I think someone suggesting Fabrice Muamba was doping while he lay lifeless on a football pitch probably still holds that title.
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Re: Re:

22 Nov 2017 00:04

fmk_RoI wrote:
Benotti69 wrote:Did Wouter Weylandts die because something like Tramadol affected his descending ability and he misjudged a corner?
A new low for the Clinic.


Win at all costs.
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Re: Re:

22 Nov 2017 17:11

StyrbjornSterki wrote:

The interviewer was horrible beyond belief. Except for departing on the occasional social justice tangent, FLandis wasn't that bad. He did make a couple points I found relevant. He admitted he had used HGH, which I don't recall hearing/reading him admitting before. And he also stated that peptides were the PED du jour in the peloton because they are infinitely manipulate-able to evade detection. I'd been wondering what new PEDs they were up to ever since Contador's positive, because whatever it was gave him the ability to attack like he had a rocket up his bum (and which didn't return after his suspension), it wasn't clenbuterol in parts per billion.
I can't work out if the interviewer even knew why he was talking to Landis. He tried a couple of times to turn things to his self-help punchline ("Learning How to Take Your Life Back & Overcome Rejection") but generally just trotted through a fairly familiar story that could have been researched straight off Wiki.

WRT peptides: the question I have to ask is how Landis knows this. One moment he says he doesn't follow the sport, maybe watches it the odd time on TV, then you get this. Is it secondhand from his business partner?
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