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Simeoni/Armstrong Tour de France 2004 - stage 18 - video link

The Clinic is the only place on Cyclingnews where you can discuss doping-related issues. Ask questions, discuss positives or improvements to procedures.

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26 Feb 2011 07:55

Stage winner Mercardo has a luuuuuverly bracelet on...:rolleyes:
Nederick
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26 Feb 2011 10:00

After Floyd revealed the true account of this day it was interesting to note the USPS team car drove up next to Armstrong. Probably telling him to stop being a prat. No doubt it only encouraged him. Nice to see Armstrong smiling afterwards with the zip lips motion. Great day for cycling!
User avatar thehog
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26 Feb 2011 23:18

I really don't understand what the big deal is here. It is about time someone cleaned up cycling, and removed all of these bad characters.

After all, wasn't Armstrong quoted as stating:



There should be some sort of law against destroying a sport. Particularly one that pays you.

Dave.
Lance says he will cooperate with Landis Investigation

"I've done too many good things for too many people"
D-Queued
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27 Feb 2011 16:35

D-Queued wrote:I really don't understand what the big deal is here. It is about time someone cleaned up cycling, and removed all of these bad characters.

After all, wasn't Armstrong quoted as stating:



There should be some sort of law against destroying a sport. Particularly one that pays you.

Dave.


You made my day, Dave!!!! :D
If it weren't so sad... but it's easier to take it with humour!
la.margna
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Re:

03 Jan 2019 04:49

D-Queued wrote:
blackcat wrote:test scores Dave?

Armstrong was a high-school drop out, does not even have a GED.


(he actually did finish apparently... but why spoil a good one...)

His blood & urine test scores, or the lack thereof (i.e. why didn't the UCI do urine tests?).

Someone should post those every five-to-ten posts.

Dave.


Because the Puritans in the sport, especially by the time you get to 2004, didn't trust UCI to do testing.
evidence
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Re: Simeoni/Armstrong Tour de France 2004 - stage 18 - video

11 Jan 2019 19:46

The old threads are the best ...
Jacques (7 ch)
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Re: Lance

12 Jan 2019 06:23

blackcat wrote:test scores Dave?

Armstrong was a high-school drop out, does not even have a GED.


Lance is incredibly intelligent.
This Charming Man
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12 Jan 2019 10:44

...lance had a pfysiological afvantage enabling him to trounce the opposition without even trying

..this was well proven by various tests
User avatar ebandit
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Re:

12 Jan 2019 10:46

ebandit wrote:...lance had a pfysiological afvantage enabling him to trounce the opposition without even trying

..this was well proven by various tests

He had what??
rick james
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Re: Simeoni/Armstrong Tour de France 2004 - stage 18 - video

16 Jan 2019 19:36

ebandit wrote:...lance had a pfysiological afvantage enabling him to trounce the opposition without even trying...

His pfysiological afvantage (sic) is he was a high responder to PEDs.
User avatar StyrbjornSterki
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Re: Simeoni/Armstrong Tour de France 2004 - stage 18 - video

18 Jan 2019 21:50

StyrbjornSterki wrote:
ebandit wrote:...lance had a pfysiological afvantage enabling him to trounce the opposition without even trying...

His pfysiological afvantage (sic) is he was a high responder to PEDs.

Are we talking about the same guy?
The one I followed was tested more than any other athlete and never tested positive.
laughingcavalier
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Re: Simeoni/Armstrong Tour de France 2004 - stage 18 - video

19 Jan 2019 09:02

StyrbjornSterki wrote:His pfysiological afvantage (sic) is he was a high responder to PEDs.

I don't know whether it has been ever established how well he would've performed had everyone been clean even when particularly Mike Ashenden and Greg LeMond seem to hold the position that he was naturally mediocre at best.

I don't find their reasoning that good, particularly Mike Ashenden's SCA testimony looks weird when he takes average of Armstrong's IN and OFFseason relative Vo2Max readings, finally estimating that his figure was around low or mid 70s. The only INseason figure was 81 and his absolute value tested at least three times above six litres, which is a very rare figure.

About LeMond, I tend to somewhat agree with J. Bruyneel on this one when criticizes how LeMond calculates Watts from Vo2max figures directly with almost 1-1 correlation touting how superior he was and going as far as to claim Lance might've used motor because there are some dozen or two watts unaccounted for:
Dear Greg Lemond, we all know by now how much your VO2max is, it's about the only scientific term you know in sport. And it's also probably the 1000th time you're saying how high your VO2max was in an interview.
And we know your VO2max because that's what you tell us it is. So it must be right, because Lemond says so.

As far as I know, no peer review study or physiological project has released his Vo2max data and to be honest, I don't know whether there is anything but his word to back up the claim that his hematocrit never exceeded 45 % as he has claimed.
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Re: Simeoni/Armstrong Tour de France 2004 - stage 18 - video

22 Mar 2019 00:27

Why hate on Armstrong. His PED programme was the same as many others of his contemporaries, plus those before him and after him.
This Charming Man
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Re: Lance

22 Mar 2019 00:46

This Charming Man wrote:
blackcat wrote:test scores Dave?

Armstrong was a high-school drop out, does not even have a GED.


Lance is incredibly intelligent.

Armstrong wasn't stupid: his foundation was a great PR move, and it would have been a great shield against suspicion had he played it BigMig, be the nice guy, not made enemies...but he couldn't help being a bully and a jerk, and in the end that wasn't smart. Froome learned that lesson: he's intelligent. LA wasn't.
SOLO LA VITTORIA È BELLA
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Re: Simeoni/Armstrong Tour de France 2004 - stage 18 - video

22 Mar 2019 08:50

This Charming Man wrote:Why hate on Armstrong. His PED programme was the same as many others of his contemporaries, plus those before him and after him.


Sure, difference was the protection and "too big to fail status". Positive test - no problem, its gone, just make a donation. TUE violation - meh, bring it backdated. Mayo going up the mountains too fast in the Dauphine - we will care about him.

Additionally he was a bully and jerk to so many people. I see why he draws hate on him. Anyway, justice was done at least a little bit of it. And one of the main reasons is that he made too many enemies.
ppanther92
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Re: Simeoni/Armstrong Tour de France 2004 - stage 18 - video

22 Mar 2019 09:46

This Charming Man wrote:Why hate on Armstrong. His PED programme was the same as many others of his contemporaries, plus those before him and after him.

He asked, in the thread about Armstrong's most public act of bullying and intimidation.
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Re: Lance

22 Mar 2019 12:17

Tonton wrote:
This Charming Man wrote:
blackcat wrote:test scores Dave?

Armstrong was a high-school drop out, does not even have a GED.


Lance is incredibly intelligent.

Armstrong wasn't stupid: his foundation was a great PR move, and it would have been a great shield against suspicion had he played it BigMig, be the nice guy, not made enemies...but he couldn't help being a bully and a jerk, and in the end that wasn't smart. Froome learned that lesson: he's intelligent. LA wasn't.


Lance is a smart dude. He surrounded himself with smart people. The only reason he got caught was because federal investigators from the US government were brought in and flipped the other riders with the threat of jail time. If this had stayed inside the sport he would have gotten away with it.

The clinic has 5,000 topics and 500k posts. Anyone that thinks that doping is not entrenched in the sport and has gone away is the fool.
WildspokeJoe
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Re: Lance

15 Apr 2019 00:28

WildspokeJoe wrote:
Tonton wrote:
This Charming Man wrote:
blackcat wrote:test scores Dave?

Armstrong was a high-school drop out, does not even have a GED.


Lance is incredibly intelligent.

Armstrong wasn't stupid: his foundation was a great PR move, and it would have been a great shield against suspicion had he played it BigMig, be the nice guy, not made enemies...but he couldn't help being a bully and a jerk, and in the end that wasn't smart. Froome learned that lesson: he's intelligent. LA wasn't.


Lance is a smart dude. He surrounded himself with smart people. The only reason he got caught was because federal investigators from the US government were brought in and flipped the other riders with the threat of jail time. If this had stayed inside the sport he would have gotten away with it.

The clinic has 5,000 topics and 500k posts. Anyone that thinks that doping is not entrenched in the sport and has gone away is the fool.


He looked stupid in the Astana kit, the comeback 2.0 whilst a smart move meshed in with Livestrong to give the appearance of charity, the greed of it all ultimately brought him down.
User avatar thehog
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Re: Lance

15 Apr 2019 03:59

WildspokeJoe wrote:
Tonton wrote:
This Charming Man wrote:
blackcat wrote:test scores Dave?

Armstrong was a high-school drop out, does not even have a GED.


Lance is incredibly intelligent.

Armstrong wasn't stupid: his foundation was a great PR move, and it would have been a great shield against suspicion had he played it BigMig, be the nice guy, not made enemies...but he couldn't help being a bully and a jerk, and in the end that wasn't smart. Froome learned that lesson: he's intelligent. LA wasn't.


Lance is a smart dude. He surrounded himself with smart people. The only reason he got caught was because federal investigators from the US government were brought in and flipped the other riders with the threat of jail time. If this had stayed inside the sport he would have gotten away with it.

The clinic has 5,000 topics and 500k posts. Anyone that thinks that doping is not entrenched in the sport and has gone away is the fool.


Lance is an obvious dumbass. Good bike rider though. Great responder to EPO.
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