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Is Philippe Gilbert Doping?

The Clinic is the only place on Cyclingnews where you can discuss doping-related issues. Ask questions, discuss positives or improvements to procedures.

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Re: Re:

17 Apr 2017 06:16

Saint Unix wrote:
zlev11 wrote:if it's doping i dont care, i love the way Gilbert rides. it's especially refreshing after (an also doped) Sky have murdered almost every race they've tried in the past few years. after sitting through that sh*t time and time again i feel like i'm entitled to enjoy Gilbert no matter what he may be taking.

Agreed. This sport lost its integrity a long time ago if it even had any to begin with, but it still has some entertainment value. As long as I can watch good racing every weekend I'm a happy camper.


Depends...if the performance is batshit crazy, like Flanders say, I find it unenjoyable to watch. Amstel was good though. It's like a suspension of disbelieve thing, like going to the cinema...if the acting or the special-effects are unbelievable it ruins the whole show...yep, pro sport is just theatre...
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Re:

17 Apr 2017 09:06

zlev11 wrote:if it's doping i dont care, i love the way Gilbert rides. it's especially refreshing after (an also doped) Sky have murdered almost every race they've tried in the past few years. after sitting through that sh*t time and time again i feel like i'm entitled to enjoy Gilbert no matter what he may be taking.



100% agree, seeing one guy ride with panache than the dull procession of 4-5 Sky riders singe file riding tempo with 50km left to go is one of the most depressing sights on pro cycling...
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17 Apr 2017 09:12

therealthing
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Re: Is Philippe Gilbert Doping?

17 Apr 2017 09:16

It seems no one is allowed to win a race in cycling without being accused of doping.

I would assume no one on this forum has ever won a race. :lol:
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Re: Is Philippe Gilbert Doping?

17 Apr 2017 09:34

hfer07 wrote:just to be clear - Gilbert's AGR win does not classify as clinic material, correct? :D


Correct.

However, Gilbert's AGR win + his Flanders-Landis win + his 3 days de Panne + his other cobbled podiums 2017 + his legless years at BMC + his crazy 2011 which now looks a lot like 2017 = clinic material. That abyss between between average and being Merckx is pretty hard to reconcile without recourse to clinic logic. In fact it's hard to find a more textbook clinic case. One year contract. Motivation. Seen it a million times before.
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Re:

17 Apr 2017 09:37


Aah , that's why he didn't win from 50 k out ... :rolleyes:
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Re: Is Philippe Gilbert Doping?

17 Apr 2017 09:39

wheresmybrakes wrote:It seems no one is allowed to win a race in cycling without being accused of doping.

I would assume no one on this forum has ever won a race. :lol:


Winning a race was a great way to catch dopers 15-20 years ago. Since this was so easy that everyone could spot a doper, this method has remained popular. The problem is it's accuracy has gone from 90% to 2% in the time since. The clinic alas seems still stuck in the days of Lance Armstrong and Tyler Hamilton. :o
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Re: Is Philippe Gilbert Doping?

17 Apr 2017 09:42

ToreBear wrote:
wheresmybrakes wrote:It seems no one is allowed to win a race in cycling without being accused of doping.

I would assume no one on this forum has ever won a race. :lol:


Winning a race was a great way to catch dopers 15-20 years ago. Since this was so easy that everyone could spot a doper, this method has remained popular. The problem is it's accuracy has gone from 90% to 2% in the time since. The clinic alas seems still stuck in the days of Lance Armstrong and Tyler Hamilton. :o


What does that even mean?
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Re:

17 Apr 2017 09:58



Glowing too much?
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Re: Is Philippe Gilbert Doping?

17 Apr 2017 10:06

frisenfruitig wrote:
ToreBear wrote:
wheresmybrakes wrote:It seems no one is allowed to win a race in cycling without being accused of doping.

I would assume no one on this forum has ever won a race. :lol:


Winning a race was a great way to catch dopers 15-20 years ago. Since this was so easy that everyone could spot a doper, this method has remained popular. The problem is it's accuracy has gone from 90% to 2% in the time since. The clinic alas seems still stuck in the days of Lance Armstrong and Tyler Hamilton. :o


What does that even mean?

It means that winning before was a good indicator of doping. Now it's a bad indicator. Some in the clinic seem to still think it's a good indicator. It hasn't been a good indicator since the 2000-2005 period.
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17 Apr 2017 10:10

When did we go from 90% of all winners being dopers to like 2%? Could you provide a believable timeline?
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17 Apr 2017 10:14

Why 2005? I think all 3 GT winners in 2006 tested postive/were eventually banned
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17 Apr 2017 10:32

Same for 2007. And 2009.
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Re:

17 Apr 2017 10:39

hrotha wrote:When did we go from 90% of all winners being dopers to like 2%? Could you provide a believable timeline?


1999-2006 - Operacion Puerto, The peloton realises this has got to stop. The mood changes in the Peloton.
2009 - Biopass. Microdosing becomes riskier.
2009 - 2014 Bans with only the biopass as evidence happen.
2015-> Samples can be stored for 10 years. If you dope now, you might get away with it for a time. How much time? You can't sleep easy until it's been 10 yers.

Memory error =+-3 years :p
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Re: Is Philippe Gilbert Doping?

17 Apr 2017 10:41

ToreBear wrote:
frisenfruitig wrote:
ToreBear wrote:
wheresmybrakes wrote:It seems no one is allowed to win a race in cycling without being accused of doping.

I would assume no one on this forum has ever won a race. :lol:


Winning a race was a great way to catch dopers 15-20 years ago. Since this was so easy that everyone could spot a doper, this method has remained popular. The problem is it's accuracy has gone from 90% to 2% in the time since. The clinic alas seems still stuck in the days of Lance Armstrong and Tyler Hamilton. :o


What does that even mean?

It means that winning before was a good indicator of doping. Now it's a bad indicator. Some in the clinic seem to still think it's a good indicator. It hasn't been a good indicator since the 2000-2005 period.


And you know this... How exactly?
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Re:

17 Apr 2017 10:41

roundabout wrote:Why 2005? I think all 3 GT winners in 2006 tested postive/were eventually banned


Changes happens continuously. It's a question of degrees. There are many more races than GTs.
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Re: Is Philippe Gilbert Doping?

17 Apr 2017 10:45

frisenfruitig wrote:
ToreBear wrote:
frisenfruitig wrote:
ToreBear wrote:
wheresmybrakes wrote:It seems no one is allowed to win a race in cycling without being accused of doping.

I would assume no one on this forum has ever won a race. :lol:


Winning a race was a great way to catch dopers 15-20 years ago. Since this was so easy that everyone could spot a doper, this method has remained popular. The problem is it's accuracy has gone from 90% to 2% in the time since. The clinic alas seems still stuck in the days of Lance Armstrong and Tyler Hamilton. :o


What does that even mean?

It means that winning before was a good indicator of doping. Now it's a bad indicator. Some in the clinic seem to still think it's a good indicator. It hasn't been a good indicator since the 2000-2005 period.


And you know this... How exactly?


It's acquired knowledge. It's the sum of my understanding of all the information I have from multiple sources. From sociological factors, psychological factors, development of testing. Antidoping improvments such as whereabouts and bio passport.
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17 Apr 2017 10:56

Ah yes, how very compelling indeed. Sounds more like wishful thinking to me. It's pretty common knowledge that the bio passport is easy to circumvent.

Fishy doctors are still involved in pro cycling, the average speeds haven't dropped at all and known dopers like Valverde can just return to cycling and crush everyone without other teams/riders making so much as a peep. Doesn't look to me like much has changed.
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Re: Is Philippe Gilbert Doping?

17 Apr 2017 11:10

wheresmybrakes wrote:It seems no one is allowed to win a race in cycling without being accused of doping.

I would assume no one on this forum has ever won a race. :lol:

Usually I let most wins pass without questioning them. However, sometimes a performance comes along that is so alien, so unbelievable, and so monstrous that that rider's legitimacy must be questioned. Be it completely random riders who suddenly come along from nowhere and smash up established competitors with a superhuman win (Zakarin + that Gazprom guy at last year's Giro,) or people like Gilbert who have a monster season at one team (2011,) before fading into obscurity at another team for a few years, before changing teams again and suddenly launching insane solo breakaways to win a monument.
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Re: Is Philippe Gilbert Doping?

17 Apr 2017 11:31

wheresmybrakes wrote:It seems no one is allowed to win a race in cycling without being accused of doping.

I would assume no one on this forum has ever won a race. :lol:

Can we assume that you have never been in a race or even ride a bike?
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