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The Clinic is the only place on Cyclingnews where you can discuss doping-related issues. Ask questions, discuss positives or improvements to procedures.

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21 Jun 2013 05:41

Je ne parle pas France.
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User avatar Dear Wiggo
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21 Jun 2013 05:49

:confused: I had a 404 then clicked it 2 minutes later and I got the English translation (google translate no longer works for me for URLs :confused: ).

Anyway.

Coz it's clear what I wrote is not clear:

Who decides which rider gets tested?
Who decides when they get tested?
Where is this protocol documented?

Neither of the links posted so far indicate either of these pieces of information.
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21 Jun 2013 06:34

Ferminal wrote:Yikes, do you think they will stop doping so they can get their membership back?


The "on a broader basis" was a reference to the regulator. I want UCI to adopt rules which punishes teams when their riders mess up. Sit out races, take away their license, demote teams to lower divisions etc.

I understand the MPCC is somewhat powerless and PR oriented, but they are doing something slightly positive imo.
Dazed and Confused
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21 Jun 2013 07:02

Dear Wiggo wrote:Neither of the links posted so far indicate either of these pieces of information.
Well, you could give Hans Michael Holczer a ring:
http://mpcc.unblog.fr/files/2007/11/statuts-mpcc2007.pdf

lol

http://mpcc.unblog.fr/search/mpcc+cycling/page/3/
A meeting of doctors team leaders MPCC (25 present), was also organized to involve the medical staff teams to decisions.
As from 2007, MPCC, alone or with the support of national federations, will, in the context of health, unannounced inspections of cortisol.

They have their own blue wristbands, that how you can spot the non - dopers nowadays.
Image
The positive thing about it is the teams are held accountable for the failures.
il Mito wrote:“I’m in pension, I don’t give a **** about training,” Ferrari said. “They are all strong without me. Did you see the Tour de France?”
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21 Jun 2013 07:50

Dear Wiggo wrote::confused: I had a 404 then clicked it 2 minutes later and I got the English translation (google translate no longer works for me for URLs :confused: ).

Anyway.

Coz it's clear what I wrote is not clear:

Who decides which rider gets tested?
Who decides when they get tested?
Where is this protocol documented?

Neither of the links posted so far indicate either of these pieces of information.


Don't think we can expect lots and lots of details, but here's a translation of what FGL's link includes:

- During the unannounced, in-competition cortisol controls, the blood samples are tested by biologists from the designated lab, an RBML-Biomnis member approved by the FFC and UCI.

- The controls are done in the hotels of each team between 06:30-07:00 and 08:30-09:00 and it's not necessary to have fasted beforehand.

- The controls are done by the lab itself according to legal conditions. The testers bring along a letter of authorisation signed by Dr Armand Mégret.

- One single lab is used per each day of testing

- The lab differs according to the day and location of the race. All the designated labs are members of the RBML [Réseau de Biologie Boléculaire Libérale - see http://www.rbml.net] and operate subject to the provisions of the law.

- On the day of the test, the same controller determines the level of plasma cortisol for all of the riders.

- The results are communicated in full to the expert doctor (Dr Armand Mégret) and on the same day to the team doctors who advise their riders of them.
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21 Jun 2013 07:59

So everyone seems to agree Europcar riders use cortisone. Does that explain everything about their better results than the other french teams ? Any opinion about what else they could be on ? EPO microdosing ?
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21 Jun 2013 08:47

Gregga wrote:So everyone seems to agree Europcar riders use cortisone. Does that explain everything about their better results than the other french teams ? Any opinion about what else they could be on ? EPO microdosing ?


The Battle of Rolland's Knee doesn't prove anything other than that the MPCC is sticking to its principles but I tend to suspect that Europcar's relationship with cortisone is unhealthy, mainly because of the frequent reporting of "knee trouble" at the team. About the other stuff, I don't know.
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21 Jun 2013 09:32

L'arriviste wrote:Don't think we can expect lots and lots of details, but here's a translation of what FGL's link includes:


Which is exactly the same as the english translation I mentioned reading, and still doesn't describe anything of importance.

Specifically: is it IC, OOC, etc.

Its efficacy is dubious given its transparency, yet again, as a doping control effort.
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21 Jun 2013 10:35

Dear Wiggo wrote:Which is exactly the same as the english translation I mentioned reading, and still doesn't describe anything of importance.

Specifically: is it IC, OOC, etc.

Its efficacy is dubious given its transparency, yet again, as a doping control effort.


Not sure. The rules, brief as they are, don't state a preference but I think you could say "around"-competition.

In the case of Mickael Delage, to whom the same thing happened last year, he learned of the result on the afternoon of the day before the French National Championship Road Race.

He did not ride the TT three days before but the test must have occurred with sufficient time in advance to deliver the sample and for Châtenay-Malabry to do its thing.

Delage, it will be remembered, had been using a legal inhaler for which it was not necessary to get a TUE and thus the MPCC accepted that. Here they rejected the reasons offered by Europcar, such as they were.
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21 Jun 2013 10:40

Given the density of riders "around" competition, with the testing efficiency it avails, and the fact that people are being caught despite that, makes me wonder what sort of risks are being taken when riders are dispersed to the 4 corners of the Earth. French riders at that.

I see you're going to log MPCC violations now.
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21 Jun 2013 11:24

Dear Wiggo wrote:Which is exactly the same as the english translation I mentioned reading, and still doesn't describe anything of importance.

Specifically: is it IC, OOC, etc.

Its efficacy is dubious given its transparency, yet again, as a doping control effort.


Why not send them a nice email with your questions?

If you go to the page I linked for you; the upper left has a choice: FR EN for French or English. After you choose, scroll down to the very bottom of the page and click on "CONTACT". You might then get a pop up window "Launch Application". If you do, click on your favorite email application and type away.

It will probably take more than an hour to get a response, maybe days. But, it would be interesting to see how they respond.
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21 Jun 2013 11:49

Heckler wrote:Why not send them a nice email with your questions?

If you go to the page I linked for you; the upper left has a choice: FR EN for French or English. After you choose, scroll down to the very bottom of the page and click on "CONTACT". You might then get a pop up window "Launch Application". If you do, click on your favorite email application and type away.

It will probably take more than an hour to get a response, maybe days. But, it would be interesting to see how they respond.


Thanks JV.

I sent an email to Francesca Rossi recently. As expected, she didn't reply either. I realise you're just being smart, but it's a pretty lame attempt.

There's a term I have coined based on the IT field. It's "anti-doping theatre".

MPCC is a keen player in that show.
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21 Jun 2013 12:34

why have credibility,

give me incredible cycling movement
"Hitler … didn't even sink to using chemical weapons."
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21 Jun 2013 12:37

blackcat wrote:why have credibility,

give me incredible cycling movement


You will get this in July, no doubt.
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21 Jun 2013 13:06

Dear Wiggo wrote:Thanks JV.

I sent an email to Francesca Rossi recently. As expected, she didn't reply either. I realise you're just being smart, but it's a pretty lame attempt.

There's a term I have coined based on the IT field. It's "anti-doping theatre".

MPCC is a keen player in that show.


At 71 posts in a year, I'm hardy JV.

I realize you're frustrated, but I was just poking a little fun at your information gathering technique. Google or the Clinic; which has a higher percentage of non fact based information?

As to MPCC anti doping theatre, Europcar, who is searching for a new sponsor, just got booted. That can't be good. AG2R just fired a rider (who, if suspended, can't be hired by another MPCC member for 2 years) and has withdrawn from their regional race. That was probably not theatre.

In the big picture, I'm with you; Sky's ZTP? probably theatre. Russians? Yep. Cookson? THEATRE. Everyone in the business probably knows more than they're sharing.

But, the tests and the testing is better than ever, LA has been mostly exposed, the passport's a pretty impressive attempt, if not a home run. In the big picture, imagine trying to change the course of a for profit sport from a practice that was so entrenched to a 180 degree different direction. That's not going to happen over night no matter how hard everyone tries. And, I know everyone's numb to the comparisons, but I'll take the UCI over MLB or FIFA any day.

As to your attempts to get a date with Dr Francesca Rossi; she's shy as you know and she's an Italian living in Switzerland. You live in Australia. It could never work...
Heckler
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21 Jun 2013 16:03

Dazed and Confused wrote:You will get this in July, no doubt.

yes yes yes meg ryan
"Hitler … didn't even sink to using chemical weapons."
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17 Jan 2014 13:40

MPCC initiates an Armband Campaign.

"I'm Clean" is the killer slogan.

More via CN article:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/im-clean-unveiled-as-new-mpcc-slogan
Dazed and Confused
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17 Jan 2014 13:46

Otherwise known as the, "I've had a shower" wristband. :rolleyes:
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17 Jan 2014 13:49

So all it takes to know a athlete is clean these days is a wristband proclaiming so? Great news! That should significantly reduce all the speculation around athletes.

:rolleyes:
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17 Jan 2014 14:10

I'm clean(er)!
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