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Will Contador Be Juiced Up Again Upon His Return

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Will Contador Be Juiced Up Again Upon His Return

Poll ended at 01 Jul 2012 10:13

YES
78
74%
NO
27
26%
 
Total votes : 105

10 Sep 2017 10:46

He admitted he was stronger before the Angliru stage then when he started the Vuelta fresh. Not normal. But suspicion reduced by the climbing time - 90 seconds slower than grandpapi.
Cookster15
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10 Sep 2017 10:50

Non-ideal weather conditions and a headwind; no wonder the times were slower. I wouldn't read much into the times.
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10 Sep 2017 13:23

I was caught up in it at first but as yesterday wore on I came to realize thay the way fans (and large swathes of media) treated his stage win makes cycling a much, much bigger farce than Froome winning the Vuelta.

At least Froome hasn't been caught (yet). Rooting for a proven doper so wholeheatedly like that is further proof that cycling fans will get exactly what they want.

Why even do anti-doping? Let the larger-than-life cheaters go out and play. Cycling fans will cheer, all the more. Other oblivious sports fans will make fun of us for it, all the same.

Besides, GW1516 causes cancer in rats but who really knows if it has the same effect on humans. Surely any back-alley doctor can dose things so that the side effects are minimal. And if a few more kids die, then that's just the cost of beautiful racing. And whatever is beautiful must be good, because that's how the world should work.
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Re: Will Contador Be Juiced Up Again Upon His Return

10 Sep 2017 15:52

Obviously everyone was in on Contador's farewell ride; it was as if he had a few extra teammates up the road.

The dude is juiced up as heck but everyone who follows pro cycling seriously knows that all the riders are walking pharmacies.

The sooner the public realizes that pro cycling is a bunch of walking pharmacies riding mopeds up mountains, the better. If you accept that and still find that entertaining, that's fine.
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Re: Will Contador Be Juiced Up Again Upon His Return

16 Sep 2017 20:14

DanielSong39 wrote:Obviously everyone was in on Contador's farewell ride; it was as if he had a few extra teammates up the road.

The dude is juiced up as heck but everyone who follows pro cycling seriously knows that all the riders are walking pharmacies.

The sooner the public realizes that pro cycling is a bunch of walking pharmacies riding mopeds up mountains, the better. If you accept that and still find that entertaining, that's fine.


Yes but the thing is many of us would prefer if they weren't walking pharmacies. It would be just as entertaining albeit a little slower but that isn't detectable by the naked eye just the stop watch.

According to the source I found, Pantani's Alpe record in 1995 is 36:40 which is still about 4 minutes faster than anyone climbs that mountain today.

Yes I am sure they are still doping but obviously way way much less than in the 90s. AICAR and TEUs is no substitute for unfettered EPO or autologous blood transfusions. If they are riding mopeds today then in the 90s they were riding superbikes.
Is cycling that much more boring today? No it isn't.
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Re: Will Contador Be Juiced Up Again Upon His Return

16 Sep 2017 22:17

Cookster15 wrote:
DanielSong39 wrote:Obviously everyone was in on Contador's farewell ride; it was as if he had a few extra teammates up the road.

The dude is juiced up as heck but everyone who follows pro cycling seriously knows that all the riders are walking pharmacies.

The sooner the public realizes that pro cycling is a bunch of walking pharmacies riding mopeds up mountains, the better. If you accept that and still find that entertaining, that's fine.


Yes but the thing is many of us would prefer if they weren't walking pharmacies. It would be just as entertaining albeit a little slower but that isn't detectable by the naked eye just the stop watch.

According to the source I found, Pantani's Alpe record in 1995 is 36:40 which is still about 4 minutes faster than anyone climbs that mountain today.

Yes I am sure they are still doping but obviously way way much less than in the 90s. AICAR and TEUs is no substitute for unfettered EPO or autologous blood transfusions. If they are riding mopeds today then in the 90s they were riding superbikes.
Is cycling that much more boring today? No it isn't.

I think everyone would prefer them to all be clean but most know that's just not going to happen, so might as well enjoy the racing as it is without being too bothered by the doping aspect. It becomes an issue when a rider or team are obviously taking the piss.

I thought it was pretty obvious this Vuelta that Alberto "recovered" well on the 2nd rest day, but I've never felt he was taking the piss in all those years and I guess it's the same for many, else he wouldn't be so well-liked.
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17 Sep 2017 00:08

I agree with Flo here. Some genuine piss-takes include Landis monster 120km solo ride, 2008 Saunier Duval sprinting up the mountains on CERA.

Alberto was never head and shoulders above everyone anyway except maybe in the 2011 Giro, when the field wasn't very strong anyway. Rujano was the second strongest rider and he'd already lost minutes. Never did he do anything super human effort. Fuente De was impressive in its own right, but it was also a team effort and using his friends in the peloton to stage an intelligent coup. It wasn't like Coppi going 200km solo to Pinerolo.
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Re:

17 Sep 2017 00:31

jsem94 wrote:I agree with Flo here. Some genuine piss-takes include Landis monster 120km solo ride, 2008 Saunier Duval sprinting up the mountains on CERA.

Alberto was never head and shoulders above everyone anyway except maybe in the 2011 Giro, when the field wasn't very strong anyway. Rujano was the second strongest rider and he'd already lost minutes. Never did he do anything super human effort. Fuente De was impressive in its own right, but it was also a team effort and using his friends in the peloton to stage an intelligent coup. It wasn't like Coppi going 200km solo to Pinerolo.


2009 TdF? I also thought it was interesting Alberto slowed in the 2010 Tour which correlated to the introduction of the blood passport.

I actually don't disagree with Flo either. My post was in response to the comment that we should just accept the doping and "enjoy" the entertainment. But doping does not correlate to entertainment as anyone who witnessed the Indurain era would know plus the blood passport hasn't eliminated doping but certainly had a massive slowing down on what was going on pre 1999.

There is nothing wrong with having an ideal even if it is unrealistic. But the closer you get to that ideal the better. We are certainly closer today than the 90s.
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17 Sep 2017 05:33

Verbier was taking the piss. Grand colombiere was supposed to be, but he could not finish the job.

But the Annecy TT takes the cake. Not Sky levels of trolling, but a solid effort. 2009 tdf was a piss take overall, though.
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Re:

17 Sep 2017 07:03

DanielSong39 wrote:Non-ideal weather conditions and a headwind; no wonder the times were slower. I wouldn't read much into the times.

:surprised: :lol:
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Re: Re:

17 Sep 2017 07:15

Cookster15 wrote:
jsem94 wrote:I agree with Flo here. Some genuine piss-takes include Landis monster 120km solo ride, 2008 Saunier Duval sprinting up the mountains on CERA.

Alberto was never head and shoulders above everyone anyway except maybe in the 2011 Giro, when the field wasn't very strong anyway. Rujano was the second strongest rider and he'd already lost minutes. Never did he do anything super human effort. Fuente De was impressive in its own right, but it was also a team effort and using his friends in the peloton to stage an intelligent coup. It wasn't like Coppi going 200km solo to Pinerolo.


2009 TdF? I also thought it was interesting Alberto slowed in the 2010 Tour which correlated to the introduction of the blood passport.

I actually don't disagree with Flo either. My post was in response to the comment that we should just accept the doping and "enjoy" the entertainment. But doping does not correlate to entertainment as anyone who witnessed the Indurain era would know plus the blood passport hasn't eliminated doping but certainly had a massive slowing down on what was going on pre 1999.

There is nothing wrong with having an ideal even if it is unrealistic. But the closer you get to that ideal the better. We are certainly closer today than the 90s.

Uh?

That was two years before, in 2008. Which (afaik) was the slowest year in cycling since epo. Since then the speeds have crept up, and we are nearing pre-passport speeds.
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Re:

17 Sep 2017 08:47

meat puppet wrote:Verbier was taking the piss.

Yes, the power estimates were through the roof, bla bla, yet he finished only 40s ahead of his nearest challenger and a minute ahead of a group with freaking Bradley Wiggins in it.
How many times has Froome finished at least 1 minute ahead of his nearest challenger? NB: a teammate is not a challenger. :rolleyes:
That is taking the piss.
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Re: Re:

17 Sep 2017 10:17

Netserk wrote:
Cookster15 wrote:
jsem94 wrote:I agree with Flo here. Some genuine piss-takes include Landis monster 120km solo ride, 2008 Saunier Duval sprinting up the mountains on CERA.

Alberto was never head and shoulders above everyone anyway except maybe in the 2011 Giro, when the field wasn't very strong anyway. Rujano was the second strongest rider and he'd already lost minutes. Never did he do anything super human effort. Fuente De was impressive in its own right, but it was also a team effort and using his friends in the peloton to stage an intelligent coup. It wasn't like Coppi going 200km solo to Pinerolo.


2009 TdF? I also thought it was interesting Alberto slowed in the 2010 Tour which correlated to the introduction of the blood passport.

I actually don't disagree with Flo either. My post was in response to the comment that we should just accept the doping and "enjoy" the entertainment. But doping does not correlate to entertainment as anyone who witnessed the Indurain era would know plus the blood passport hasn't eliminated doping but certainly had a massive slowing down effect on what was going on pre 1999.

There is nothing wrong with having an ideal even if it is unrealistic. But the closer you get to that ideal the better. We are certainly closer today than the 90s


Uh?

That was two years before, in 2008. Which (afaik) was the slowest year in cycling since epo. Since then the speeds have crept up, and we are nearing pre-passport speeds.


Okay I got my years wrong on the BPP maybe it took time to implement properly based upon comparing 2009 and 2010 Tours?

2011 Tour climbing looked pretty slow to me - Voekler?? And what happened in 2010 then that was obviously two steps down on 2009 levels ? I was waiting for Alberto and Schleck to explode on the Tourmalet, never happened, looked like slowmo.

In 2009 62Kg Alberto was beating 82Kg Cancellara in the Annecy TT all whilst fending off intra team battles with Armstrong - yep that was taking the piss.

Yes its speeding up again as you'd expect but despite skeletal climbers who can TT, we are still a long way short of the 90s when they were still riding 9.0kg steel bikes and less aero. Equipment and training science would account for some of the gap. But nobody is climbing anything like Pantani / Ullrich / Riis and 79Kg 6'3" Indurain riding the entire field bar Luc Lublanc off his wheel at Hautacam.
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Re: Re:

17 Sep 2017 15:57

LaFlorecita wrote:
meat puppet wrote:Verbier was taking the piss.

Yes, the power estimates were through the roof, bla bla, yet he finished only 40s ahead of his nearest challenger and a minute ahead of a group with freaking Bradley Wiggins in it.
How many times has Froome finished at least 1 minute ahead of his nearest challenger? NB: a teammate is not a challenger. :rolleyes:
That is taking the piss.

?
He broke the vAM record and gained 40+ seconds on his closest rival on a 1C climb with a ______/ type of stage.
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Re: Re:

17 Sep 2017 17:19

Netserk wrote:
Cookster15 wrote:
jsem94 wrote:I agree with Flo here. Some genuine piss-takes include Landis monster 120km solo ride, 2008 Saunier Duval sprinting up the mountains on CERA.

Alberto was never head and shoulders above everyone anyway except maybe in the 2011 Giro, when the field wasn't very strong anyway. Rujano was the second strongest rider and he'd already lost minutes. Never did he do anything super human effort. Fuente De was impressive in its own right, but it was also a team effort and using his friends in the peloton to stage an intelligent coup. It wasn't like Coppi going 200km solo to Pinerolo.


2009 TdF? I also thought it was interesting Alberto slowed in the 2010 Tour which correlated to the introduction of the blood passport.

I actually don't disagree with Flo either. My post was in response to the comment that we should just accept the doping and "enjoy" the entertainment. But doping does not correlate to entertainment as anyone who witnessed the Indurain era would know plus the blood passport hasn't eliminated doping but certainly had a massive slowing down on what was going on pre 1999.

There is nothing wrong with having an ideal even if it is unrealistic. But the closer you get to that ideal the better. We are certainly closer today than the 90s.

Uh?

That was two years before, in 2008. Which (afaik) was the slowest year in cycling since epo. Since then the speeds have crept up, and we are nearing pre-passport speeds.


Are you referring to the whole of a stage race or specific mountain stages ? LS made a post comparing average speeds of the TDF and the Vuelta for the last 15 years - Most years the TDF was faster but that's to be expected seeing the TDF has more flat stages while the Vuelta has more rolling terrain.
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Re: Re:

26 Sep 2017 15:36

PPAR-delta wrote:
lenric wrote:
PPAR-delta wrote:I have a question for someone a little more knowledgeable about the sport than I am. Who is the body that is responsible for drug testing at the Grand Tour's. For example, at this years Vuelta ... is it the UCI that does the testing? ASO? or the Spanish anti-doping group. Is it just one organization, or can any of those organizations request a test?


One could see that coming from a mile away :lol:


It is a legitimate question. In the US, it appears that the USADA is responsible for implementation of the World Anti-Doping Code (Code) in the United States. For example, reading the USADA annual report from 2016, it appears that testing at the Tour of California was implemented by the USADA. I was also under the impression that testing at prior Colorado races were also under the responsibility of the USADA. (don't know this with certainty)

In Europe is it done the same way? ... ie when a race is in France (TDF, Dauphine, etc) the French anti-doping agency there implements the WADA code, in Italy the Italian anti-doping agency handles all testing? In Spain the same?

I recently watched Icarus, and it seems like this approach has potential for abuse if local officials put pressure on the "local" anti-doping agency to show favoritism for local athletes.


Can somebody please answer this?
Does the Spanish anti-doping agency take care of the testing at the Spanish races?
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Re: Re:

26 Sep 2017 15:52

silvergrenade wrote:Can somebody please answer this?
Does the Spanish anti-doping agency take care of the testing at the Spanish races?
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Re: Re:

26 Sep 2017 18:01

PPAR-delta wrote:
lenric wrote:
PPAR-delta wrote:I have a question for someone a little more knowledgeable about the sport than I am. Who is the body that is responsible for drug testing at the Grand Tour's. For example, at this years Vuelta ... is it the UCI that does the testing? ASO? or the Spanish anti-doping group. Is it just one organization, or can any of those organizations request a test?


One could see that coming from a mile away :lol:


It is a legitimate question. In the US, it appears that the USADA is responsible for implementation of the World Anti-Doping Code (Code) in the United States. For example, reading the USADA annual report from 2016, it appears that testing at the Tour of California was implemented by the USADA. I was also under the impression that testing at prior Colorado races were also under the responsibility of the USADA. (don't know this with certainty)

In Europe is it done the same way? ... ie when a race is in France (TDF, Dauphine, etc) the French anti-doping agency there implements the WADA code, in Italy the Italian anti-doping agency handles all testing? In Spain the same?

I recently watched Icarus, and it seems like this approach has potential for abuse if local officials put pressure on the "local" anti-doping agency to show favoritism for local athletes.


Icarus was a good documentary but boy did they miss the opportunity to show how easy or not it is to beat the testers which was after all was going to be the original narrative of the film. A real missed opportunity whatever it would have shown.
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Re: Re:

26 Sep 2017 19:39

LaFlorecita wrote:
meat puppet wrote:Verbier was taking the piss.

Yes, the power estimates were through the roof, bla bla, yet he finished only 40s ahead of his nearest challenger and a minute ahead of a group with freaking Bradley Wiggins in it.
How many times has Froome finished at least 1 minute ahead of his nearest challenger? NB: a teammate is not a challenger. :rolleyes:
That is taking the piss.

Pretty sure Froome was taking the piss on Mende.
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Re: Re:

27 Sep 2017 01:13

LaFlorecita wrote:
meat puppet wrote:Verbier was taking the piss.

Yes, the power estimates were through the roof, bla bla, yet he finished only 40s ahead of his nearest challenger and a minute ahead of a group with freaking Bradley Wiggins in it.
How many times has Froome finished at least 1 minute ahead of his nearest challenger? NB: a teammate is not a challenger. :rolleyes:
That is taking the piss.

This thread is about how dirty a cheat Alberto contador is, please don't bring the dawg into it, stop derailing the thread thank you very much
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