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The Clinic is the only place on Cyclingnews where you can discuss doping-related issues. Ask questions, discuss positives or improvements to procedures.

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Re: Re:

05 Oct 2017 21:29

samhocking wrote:
Benotti69 wrote:Since Sky fans or bots, take your pick, seem insitent on believing the skytrain, here is a blog by Nate Llerandi debunking some of Sky's clams over Marginal gains.

http://www.oriontrainingsystems.com/blog/the-myth-of-marginal-gains

Nate is a former competitive tri-athete


Haha, the first half he just copied directly from road.cc lol. To assume BC & Sky just tell you what the marginal gains are is deluded. They tell you what sponsors need to hear you saying. The real gains will not be in any press release lol.


There is why i believe Sam is more than a fan.

Cycling is as you know a small world. They have already had a lot of employees through Sky so even if there were an agregation of gains being made on methods, they would have filtered out to other teams very quickly as riders talked and discussed things with others in the peloton, never mind that Jullich, DeJongh and others moved to other teams. So the idea they got any gains, is laughable, as it also supposes other teams are junkie teams just shooting up and racing. But those who follow the sport know that others are just as searching looking for new improvements, nutrition (see Sean Kelly talking about Jean de Gribaldy's attention to nutrition in the 80s), bike tech etc etc. We know Coppi's unrelenting search for performance enhancement. Heck if we believed Sky, it would seem everyone rode wooden bikes till they came along. But we know sky tell lies, we know that the sport has always had a thirst for knowledge and improvement, some are just so gullible and others, well they are just trying to obfuscate.

Remember Sky did value Froome enough to put him in a windtunnel or check his bloods enough and discover Bilharzia.

:lol:
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Re: Re:

05 Oct 2017 21:33

Angliru wrote:
rick james wrote:Lol, sky have magic pillows.....truth, everyone travels with own pillows. Not really debunking things is it, good try all the same


Who are you replying to as you failed to quote anyone in particular? I'm more inclined to believe someone that has been a vital part of both systems, the Sky team and British cycling, than anything you might have to say.

Creeping on me still I see
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Re: Re:

05 Oct 2017 22:04

rick james wrote:
Angliru wrote:
rick james wrote:Lol, sky have magic pillows.....truth, everyone travels with own pillows. Not really debunking things is it, good try all the same


Who are you replying to as you failed to quote anyone in particular? I'm more inclined to believe someone that has been a vital part of both systems, the Sky team and British cycling, than anything you might have to say.

Creeping on me still I see


What is creepy is you thinking that a reply to any of your posts is interpreted by you as such. It appears someone isn't getting enough attention at home and has created a false reality.
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Re: Re:

05 Oct 2017 22:15

Angliru wrote:
rick james wrote:
Angliru wrote:
rick james wrote:Lol, sky have magic pillows.....truth, everyone travels with own pillows. Not really debunking things is it, good try all the same


Who are you replying to as you failed to quote anyone in particular? I'm more inclined to believe someone that has been a vital part of both systems, the Sky team and British cycling, than anything you might have to say.

Creeping on me still I see


What is creepy is you thinking that a reply to any of your posts is interpreted by you as such. It appears someone isn't getting enough attention at home and has created a false reality.

So now when 1 poster replies to another more than a handful of times it is considered "creeping"? Cripes!
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Re: Re:

06 Oct 2017 10:31

rick james wrote:
Angliru wrote:
rick james wrote:Lol, sky have magic pillows.....truth, everyone travels with own pillows. Not really debunking things is it, good try all the same


Who are you replying to as you failed to quote anyone in particular? I'm more inclined to believe someone that has been a vital part of both systems, the Sky team and British cycling, than anything you might have to say.

Creeping on me still I see

Image
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Re:

06 Oct 2017 13:07

samhocking wrote:Well to simply ommit/miss a £1 Million a year department from Sky's marginal gains and NDA's as marginal gains, suggests nobody actually knows what they are talking about and simply look at press releases tp plagiarise and use as 'evidence'. It's deluded.


Well JV made a statement that Don Caitlin was going to do internal testing of Slipstream riders to keep them clean at a cost of $1million a year. Myth.

That Sky allegedly spend Stg1million on marginal gains, sure they do, another myth amongst the many many many many myths from Sky.
Last edited by Benotti69 on 06 Oct 2017 17:07, edited 1 time in total.
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06 Oct 2017 15:30

I would like to know what Sam thinks of the secret package fiasco. Why would Sky go to the trouble to have a British Cycling employee transport an item in a package from Manchester all the way to France via Switzerland that you can get at the closest local pharmacy? Now that really is taking marginal gains to a different level.
Craigee
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Re:

06 Oct 2017 15:47

Craigee wrote:I would like to know what Sam thinks of the secret package fiasco. Why would Sky go to the trouble to have a British Cycling employee transport an item in a package from Manchester all the way to France via Switzerland that you can get at the closest local pharmacy? Now that really is taking marginal gains to a different level.


...or the shipment of EPO (or whatever it was) that they claim was delivered to British cycling by mistake.
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Re: Re:

06 Oct 2017 16:28

Angliru wrote:
Craigee wrote:I would like to know what Sam thinks of the secret package fiasco. Why would Sky go to the trouble to have a British Cycling employee transport an item in a package from Manchester all the way to France via Switzerland that you can get at the closest local pharmacy? Now that really is taking marginal gains to a different level.


...or the shipment of EPO (or whatever it was) that they claim was delivered to British cycling by mistake.


That was Test I believe.
The poster formerly known as yespatterns.
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Re: Re:

06 Oct 2017 17:11

Benotti69 wrote:Well JV made a state the Don Caitlin was going tod o internal testing of Slipstream riders to keep them clean at a cost of $1million a year. Myth.
Not sure of the source of a million dollars a year, but you're right about the link with the teflon Don:
Catlin said he was still running the antidoping programs for two professional cycling teams, Team Columbia and Garmin-Slipstream. He said those programs were going well and were easier to handle because they were not the comprehensive doping program of a single athlete.
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Re: Re:

06 Oct 2017 17:13

fmk_RoI wrote:
Benotti69 wrote:Well JV made a state the Don Caitlin was going tod o internal testing of Slipstream riders to keep them clean at a cost of $1million a year. Myth.
Not sure of the source of a million dollars a year, but you're right about the link with the teflon Don:
Catlin said he was still running the antidoping programs for two professional cycling teams, Team Columbia and Garmin-Slipstream. He said those programs were going well and were easier to handle because they were not the comprehensive doping program of a single athlete.


JV was the source.
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Re: Re:

06 Oct 2017 17:28

GraftPunk wrote:
Angliru wrote:
Craigee wrote:I would like to know what Sam thinks of the secret package fiasco. Why would Sky go to the trouble to have a British Cycling employee transport an item in a package from Manchester all the way to France via Switzerland that you can get at the closest local pharmacy? Now that really is taking marginal gains to a different level.


...or the shipment of EPO (or whatever it was) that they claim was delivered to British cycling by mistake.


That was Test I believe.


I stand corrected.
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17 Oct 2017 09:25

Was reading something about Froome and remembered this passage from Dylan. Of course it doesn't just apply to Sky defenders, but also to Contador fans, Bolt fans, Radcliffe fans, tennis fans, football fans, in the past Armstrong fans etc, but weve seen the worst of it from Sky defenders in recent years

While them that defend what they cannot see
With a killer's pride, security
It blows the minds most bitterly
For them that think death's honesty
Won't fall upon 'em naturally
Life sometimes
Must get lonely


"Defending what you cant see" is obvious here. Fans defending athletes they never even met, like it was their own children.

But the passage also is about adding meaning to life through identities, and its clear that some of those who react most "bitterly" to the idea that some of their heroes could dope, identify their favourite athletes, with a deeper meaning to their life. "Deaths honesty" reminds me of the concept of "immortality projects" in Ernest Beckers "the denial of death". People desperate to add meaning to their lives. The way some people defend their favourite athletes it is clear it means so much to them. Like the martinvickers fellow who used to post on here, or the guy (may have been a vickers sockpuppet) who started pming threats to several Sky doubters on here. Ive seen evern worse examples on twitter, especially from this @davidwalshst account.

And life being lonely? I mean there must be some lonelyness surely to attach so much of your emotion to an athlete you never met who never heard of you? no?
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17 Oct 2017 11:10

Excellent
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Re:

17 Oct 2017 11:23

veganrob wrote:Excellent
Quite
sniper
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Re:

17 Oct 2017 11:26

The Hitch wrote:Was reading something about Froome and remembered this passage from Dylan. Of course it doesn't just apply to Sky defenders, but also to Contador fans, Bolt fans, Radcliffe fans, tennis fans, football fans, in the past Armstrong fans etc, but weve seen the worst of it from Sky defenders in recent years

While them that defend what they cannot see
With a killer's pride, security
It blows the minds most bitterly
For them that think death's honesty
Won't fall upon 'em naturally
Life sometimes
Must get lonely


"Defending what you cant see" is obvious here. Fans defending athletes they never even met, like it was their own children.

But the passage also is about adding meaning to life through identities, and its clear that some of those who react most "bitterly" to the idea that some of their heroes could dope, identify their favourite athletes, with a deeper meaning to their life. "Deaths honesty" reminds me of the concept of "immortality projects" in Ernest Beckers "the denial of death". People desperate to add meaning to their lives. The way some people defend their favourite athletes it is clear it means so much to them. Like the martinvickers fellow who used to post on here, or the guy (may have been a vickers sockpuppet) who started pming threats to several Sky doubters on here. Ive seen evern worse examples on twitter, especially from this @davidwalshst account.

And life being lonely? I mean there must be some lonelyness surely to attach so much of your emotion to an athlete you never met who never heard of you? no?


Well said
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Re:

17 Oct 2017 14:55

The Hitch wrote:Was reading something about Froome and remembered this passage from Dylan. Of course it doesn't just apply to Sky defenders, but also to Contador fans, Bolt fans, Radcliffe fans, tennis fans, football fans, in the past Armstrong fans etc, but weve seen the worst of it from Sky defenders in recent years

While them that defend what they cannot see
With a killer's pride, security
It blows the minds most bitterly
For them that think death's honesty
Won't fall upon 'em naturally
Life sometimes
Must get lonely


"Defending what you cant see" is obvious here. Fans defending athletes they never even met, like it was their own children.

But the passage also is about adding meaning to life through identities, and its clear that some of those who react most "bitterly" to the idea that some of their heroes could dope, identify their favourite athletes, with a deeper meaning to their life. "Deaths honesty" reminds me of the concept of "immortality projects" in Ernest Beckers "the denial of death". People desperate to add meaning to their lives. The way some people defend their favourite athletes it is clear it means so much to them. Like the martinvickers fellow who used to post on here, or the guy (may have been a vickers sockpuppet) who started pming threats to several Sky doubters on here. Ive seen evern worse examples on twitter, especially from this @davidwalshst account.

And life being lonely? I mean there must be some lonelyness surely to attach so much of your emotion to an athlete you never met who never heard of you? no?


Are you discussing your own doping obsession ? ;)
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Re: Re:

17 Oct 2017 15:04

bigcog wrote:
The Hitch wrote:Was reading something about Froome and remembered this passage from Dylan. Of course it doesn't just apply to Sky defenders, but also to Contador fans, Bolt fans, Radcliffe fans, tennis fans, football fans, in the past Armstrong fans etc, but weve seen the worst of it from Sky defenders in recent years

While them that defend what they cannot see
With a killer's pride, security
It blows the minds most bitterly
For them that think death's honesty
Won't fall upon 'em naturally
Life sometimes
Must get lonely


"Defending what you cant see" is obvious here. Fans defending athletes they never even met, like it was their own children.

But the passage also is about adding meaning to life through identities, and its clear that some of those who react most "bitterly" to the idea that some of their heroes could dope, identify their favourite athletes, with a deeper meaning to their life. "Deaths honesty" reminds me of the concept of "immortality projects" in Ernest Beckers "the denial of death". People desperate to add meaning to their lives. The way some people defend their favourite athletes it is clear it means so much to them. Like the martinvickers fellow who used to post on here, or the guy (may have been a vickers sockpuppet) who started pming threats to several Sky doubters on here. Ive seen evern worse examples on twitter, especially from this @davidwalshst account.

And life being lonely? I mean there must be some lonelyness surely to attach so much of your emotion to an athlete you never met who never heard of you? no?


Are you discussing your own doping obsession ? ;)


Oh the irony.... :lol:
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Re: Re:

17 Oct 2017 15:26

brownbobby wrote:
bigcog wrote:
The Hitch wrote:Was reading something about Froome and remembered this passage from Dylan. Of course it doesn't just apply to Sky defenders, but also to Contador fans, Bolt fans, Radcliffe fans, tennis fans, football fans, in the past Armstrong fans etc, but weve seen the worst of it from Sky defenders in recent years

While them that defend what they cannot see
With a killer's pride, security
It blows the minds most bitterly
For them that think death's honesty
Won't fall upon 'em naturally
Life sometimes
Must get lonely


"Defending what you cant see" is obvious here. Fans defending athletes they never even met, like it was their own children.

But the passage also is about adding meaning to life through identities, and its clear that some of those who react most "bitterly" to the idea that some of their heroes could dope, identify their favourite athletes, with a deeper meaning to their life. "Deaths honesty" reminds me of the concept of "immortality projects" in Ernest Beckers "the denial of death". People desperate to add meaning to their lives. The way some people defend their favourite athletes it is clear it means so much to them. Like the martinvickers fellow who used to post on here, or the guy (may have been a vickers sockpuppet) who started pming threats to several Sky doubters on here. Ive seen evern worse examples on twitter, especially from this @davidwalshst account.

And life being lonely? I mean there must be some lonelyness surely to attach so much of your emotion to an athlete you never met who never heard of you? no?


Are you discussing your own doping obsession ? ;)


Oh the irony.... :lol:


Oh don't be mistaken, I come on here for some light entertainment, particularly entertaining when you can see pseudo-intellectual statements like this. Most amusing :lol:
bigcog
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17 Oct 2017 22:22

Sky haven't been caught yet and my life is fine. Can you say the same for yourself if they ever do? I'd seen plenty on the internet so weak they would go into ptsd if it was ever revealed Wiggins was anything but the archyttipical hero. The way you had to coordinate this "discussion" above doesn't say much for you either.
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