Log in:  

Register

Sky

The Clinic is the only place on Cyclingnews where you can discuss doping-related issues. Ask questions, discuss positives or improvements to procedures.

Moderators: Irondan, Eshnar, Red Rick, Valv.Piti, Pricey_sky, Tonton, King Boonen

18 Oct 2017 15:18

The Hitch makes a great point here. I am in the racehorse industry which is well known for doping and a guy I know was a huge fan of this one horse trainer who on retirement admitted in the news papers to doping his horses for years. Well this fan of his still said the trainer didn't dope in a debate argument I had with him. Now that is called living in denial and there are plenty of cycling fans just like him. Some posting here too.
Craigee
Junior Member
 
Posts: 170
Joined: 18 Aug 2016 06:18

Re:

20 Oct 2017 12:17

The Hitch wrote:Sky haven't been caught yet

Only a matter of time. They are getting more like a Harry Potter story every day https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/oct/19/british-cycling-doctor-jiffy-bag-scandal-richard-freeman
zalacain
Junior Member
 
Posts: 284
Joined: 12 Jul 2009 23:00

Re: Re:

20 Oct 2017 12:25

zalacain wrote:
The Hitch wrote:Sky haven't been caught yet

Only a matter of time. They are getting more like a Harry Potter story every day https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/oct/19/british-cycling-doctor-jiffy-bag-scandal-richard-freeman


Please how could you believe them , IT'S IMPOSSIBLE and make comments in the road section is really impossible too , that's why now i make joke of froome and sky in that section
User avatar telencefalus
Member
 
Posts: 515
Joined: 03 Sep 2017 18:39

Re:

20 Oct 2017 12:55

Craigee wrote:The Hitch makes a great point here. I am in the racehorse industry which is well known for doping and a guy I know was a huge fan of this one horse trainer who on retirement admitted in the news papers to doping his horses for years. Well this fan of his still said the trainer didn't dope in a debate argument I had with him. Now that is called living in denial and there are plenty of cycling fans just like him. Some posting here too.


I think the kool aid drinking by Team Sky fans has been perpetuated in the UK by the sheer popularity of cycling which some quarters have described as the new Golf. Middle aged men and women discovering cycling are jumping onto a bandwagon woven into a fabric of 10k pinarellos, 1.5 k of clothing from Rapha, power-meters, oakleys and sportives, and a sport which has become hipster and trendy. Go out on the roads of Britain and this new breed of 'cyclist' spend most of their time posing outside your local Costa or 'pretending' to race sportives.

You can spot them a mile away.......they are wearing shorts when its 4 degrees c in December.

It has become 'lifestyle' and people buy into that lifestyle warts and all. Do they really care if Sky are clean? Probably not but its all about the lifestyle............aint it mate.

Nowadays 40 year old men are talking about Froomes ride on Ventoux or their strava segments in a typical UK pub rather than who will be Real Madrids next signing.

When you start to debunk the myth behind sky with such types, they will move quickly onto whether their wives should get a Range Rover Sport or Audi Q7.
B_Ugli
Member
 
Posts: 417
Joined: 23 Feb 2011 13:41

20 Oct 2017 16:14

Huge covering up, nobody held responsible....
User avatar 70kmph
Member
 
Posts: 432
Joined: 31 May 2010 00:06

20 Oct 2017 18:30

Have you seen the report then?
samhocking
Member
 
Posts: 1,055
Joined: 13 Mar 2013 22:44

Re:

20 Oct 2017 19:15

samhocking wrote:Have you seen the report then?


Given the UKAD's past history it will be a whitewash if it ever materialises.
User avatar Benotti69
Veteran
 
Posts: 19,089
Joined: 26 May 2010 09:09

20 Oct 2017 20:52

Well the scope of UKAD's investigation is Daily Mail's 'allegation of wrongdoing in cycling'. Clearly it can't be one of anti-doping using those words, so expecting something more and not getting it doesn't suggest whitewash alone. The most it can be about is did Fluamicil get injected or did it get nebulized and if injected - who authorised it. 8 to 30 days suspension for an already retired Wiggins and a fine for Team Sky will be the most exciting it can possibly get while remaining within the remit of what an ADO is allowed to investigate.
samhocking
Member
 
Posts: 1,055
Joined: 13 Mar 2013 22:44

Re:

20 Oct 2017 23:47

samhocking wrote:Well the scope of UKAD's investigation is Daily Mail's 'allegation of wrongdoing in cycling'. Clearly it can't be one of anti-doping using those words, so expecting something more and not getting it doesn't suggest whitewash alone. The most it can be about is did Fluamicil get injected or did it get nebulized and if injected - who authorised it. 8 to 30 days suspension for an already retired Wiggins and a fine for Team Sky will be the most exciting it can possibly get while remaining within the remit of what an ADO is allowed to investigate.

UKAD also looked into the mysterious packages that turned up - apparently by mistake - plus Freeman's lack of records which could see him get into real trouble (if he ever gets "well").

There is a good list of relevant articles here http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/timeline-of-ukad-investigation-into-team-sky-and-british-cycling/
Rød pølse - Breakfast of Champions!
"The president is one large S.T.D., and if you’re in close proximity you’re going to get tainted by it.”
User avatar Robert5091
Member
 
Posts: 1,139
Joined: 29 Mar 2016 08:56
Location: stockholm, sweden

Re: Sky

21 Oct 2017 07:53

What illness would be so severe that it would render Freeman incapable of having a conversation with another group of people. Did he write his own doctors note? I just can't fathom how UKAD simply accept at face value his decision to go into hiding citing serious illness. He knew the risk-reward when he was getting into dodgy malpractices and he is intelligent enough to know that the day of reckoning may come along at some stage. He has shown himself to be in the Brailsford category of deception with the faked phone call to evade a reporter, taking his work laptop to Greece, having it stolen but not reporting it, failing to keep medical records and now this 6 month plus protracted sickie. You take the big job, you take the big money then you must know the risks involved. It's very likely he is being advised to go into hiding and there may well be a payoff for his silence. By this very act though he has revealed that it is he who has the keys to the kingdom.

The question is, will CMS accept the whole handling of this situation by UKAD. Already the investigation has been going on for over a year and they must be wondering what exactly is going on at this stage. Are UKAD acting totally independently free of duress and are they actually serious about this whole episode or are they simply in damage limitation mode again simply to try and dampen the story down as with previous cases.
ontheroad
Member
 
Posts: 681
Joined: 10 Oct 2012 18:04

Re: Re:

21 Oct 2017 08:46

Robert5091 wrote:UKAD also looked into the mysterious packages that turned up - apparently by mistake - plus Freeman's lack of records which could see him get into real trouble (if he ever gets "well").

There is a good list of relevant articles here http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/timeline-of-ukad-investigation-into-team-sky-and-british-cycling/


The delivery of other packages was discovered while UKAD was tracking back the order of Fluamicil to Switzerland or wherever it was, so was within scope of that investigation. I can't see what could be investigated regarding the Triamcinolone because that is legal out of competition and most sports doctors would use it to treat injured athletes, so you would expect to find that. Clearly if there's evidence it was used in-competition and that was the reason for ordering it and stocking it, that would be a different matter and require a separate investigation by UKAD. The scope for UKAD is how the Fluamicil was administered to Wiggins & Tiernan Locke's claim he was offered Tramadol for 2012 World Championships. Neither drug is banned in or out of competition, so this is simply a no-needles issue, unless other evidence of possible doping violations in and/or out of competition comes to light in addition to the allegation of wrongdoing from that investigation.
samhocking
Member
 
Posts: 1,055
Joined: 13 Mar 2013 22:44

Re: Re:

21 Oct 2017 11:06

samhocking wrote:
Robert5091 wrote:UKAD also looked into the mysterious packages that turned up - apparently by mistake - plus Freeman's lack of records which could see him get into real trouble (if he ever gets "well").

There is a good list of relevant articles here http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/timeline-of-ukad-investigation-into-team-sky-and-british-cycling/


The delivery of other packages was discovered while UKAD was tracking back the order of Fluamicil to Switzerland or wherever it was, so was within scope of that investigation. I can't see what could be investigated regarding the Triamcinolone because that is legal out of competition and most sports doctors would use it to treat injured athletes, so you would expect to find that. Clearly if there's evidence it was used in-competition and that was the reason for ordering it and stocking it, that would be a different matter and require a separate investigation by UKAD. The scope for UKAD is how the Fluamicil was administered to Wiggins & Tiernan Locke's claim he was offered Tramadol for 2012 World Championships. Neither drug is banned in or out of competition, so this is simply a no-needles issue, unless other evidence of possible doping violations in and/or out of competition comes to light in addition to the allegation of wrongdoing from that investigation.


I think your missing the point....

the contortions sky have gone through only mean one thing....

this taints everything they have done..

the biggest two (actually one) things they have done is to have done is turn 2x donkeys into (dominant) GT winners. A turn of events which is most statistically likely to have been achieved through PEDS....and that's without taking into account the contortions of team management......

the outcome is now not relevant...the process has told us everything....
gillan1969
Member
 
Posts: 1,068
Joined: 12 Aug 2009 12:25

Re:

21 Oct 2017 12:11

samhocking wrote:Well the scope of UKAD's investigation is Daily Mail's 'allegation of wrongdoing in cycling'. Clearly it can't be one of anti-doping using those words, so expecting something more and not getting it doesn't suggest whitewash alone. The most it can be about is did Fluamicil get injected or did it get nebulized and if injected - who authorised it. 8 to 30 days suspension for an already retired Wiggins and a fine for Team Sky will be the most exciting it can possibly get while remaining within the remit of what an ADO is allowed to investigate.


Obfuscation at its best.

Sky the so called cleanest of clean teams that paid attention to every little detail and left no stone untruned in its quest for 'marginal gains' has no medical records. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!! :lol:

Nothing is defensible about Sky being clean. Nothing.

Sky dope and more than likely use motors. Whether we find that out, IDGAF, because it doesn't matter whether it is Sky or USPS or Qucikstep or Garmin, they are all, IMO, at some level cheating their little hearts out to whatever level they can afford and bribe.

But please stop trying to pretend Sky are clean. You look rather stupid. The question that has to be answered in order to start the discussion of Sky being clean (which is pointless since we know they are not) is where and when did the sport change its culture of doping so that everyone in the sport who before went about the business of doping and looking for new and better ways to dope stopped and said, oh we just need to warm up, wash hands, own pillows, own mattresses, no nutella, pineapple juice in the bidon, blah blah and not EPO, HGH, Steroids, Corticosteroids, Clenbuterol, AICAR, GW150, etc etc etc etc etc

Never mind that Sky have been caught lying continuously about f*****g everything.
User avatar Benotti69
Veteran
 
Posts: 19,089
Joined: 26 May 2010 09:09

21 Oct 2017 12:26

The DM allegation is Wiggins was injected (we assume with Fluimicil given UKAD allowed Brailsford to say what it was in a letter handed to him) just 1 month after UCI introduced no-needle policy at Giro. Even if Sky didn't contort their story in those first few days so randomly, injecting Fluimcil is clearly not turning 2x donkeys into (dominant) GT winners as you put it, any more than a TUE for Triamcinolone does either. We know both substances are used by those competing against Sky, so where is the difference? This is what I mean by the scope of the UKAD investigation. Hoping for anything more than an injection of Fluimicil after Dauphine is just that given what the allegation's scope in the first place is.
samhocking
Member
 
Posts: 1,055
Joined: 13 Mar 2013 22:44

Re: Re:

21 Oct 2017 12:48

Benotti69 wrote:
samhocking wrote:Well the scope of UKAD's investigation is Daily Mail's 'allegation of wrongdoing in cycling'. Clearly it can't be one of anti-doping using those words, so expecting something more and not getting it doesn't suggest whitewash alone. The most it can be about is did Fluamicil get injected or did it get nebulized and if injected - who authorised it. 8 to 30 days suspension for an already retired Wiggins and a fine for Team Sky will be the most exciting it can possibly get while remaining within the remit of what an ADO is allowed to investigate.


Obfuscation at its best.

Sky the so called cleanest of clean teams that paid attention to every little detail and left no stone untruned in its quest for 'marginal gains' has no medical records. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!! :lol:

Nothing is defensible about Sky being clean. Nothing.

Sky dope and more than likely use motors. Whether we find that out, IDGAF, because it doesn't matter whether it is Sky or USPS or Qucikstep or Garmin, they are all, IMO, at some level cheating their little hearts out to whatever level they can afford and bribe.

But please stop trying to pretend Sky are clean. You look rather stupid. The question that has to be answered in order to start the discussion of Sky being clean (which is pointless since we know they are not) is where and when did the sport change its culture of doping so that everyone in the sport who before went about the business of doping and looking for new and better ways to dope stopped and said, oh we just need to warm up, wash hands, own pillows, own mattresses, no nutella, pineapple juice in the bidon, blah blah and not EPO, HGH, Steroids, Corticosteroids, Clenbuterol, AICAR, GW150, etc etc etc etc etc

Never mind that Sky have been caught lying continuously about f*****g everything.


I've never said Sky are clean how you think being clean means? I believe they're legally clean and this is perhaps a change in team culture, i.e. your objective is not to evade testing positive with something illegal, it's to not place your riders in a situation that is illegal in the first place. If a team has in-house doctors, medication is being used, you expect it to be used and in Sky's case, they claim legally in terms of anti-doping rules. So far that is the case, even with 50 injections of stored Triamcinolone being the most damning, but in itself not evidence of illegal doping just as a TUE isn't either. I don't believe ethics come into it unless ethics is included in WADA's code and it simply isn't, because anti-doping or not can't be measured that way at CAS.
samhocking
Member
 
Posts: 1,055
Joined: 13 Mar 2013 22:44

Re:

21 Oct 2017 13:26

samhocking wrote:The DM allegation is Wiggins was injected (we assume with Fluimicil given UKAD allowed Brailsford to say what it was in a letter handed to him) just 1 month after UCI introduced no-needle policy at Giro. Even if Sky didn't contort their story in those first few days so randomly, injecting Fluimcil is clearly not turning 2x donkeys into (dominant) GT winners as you put it, any more than a TUE for Triamcinolone does either. We know both substances are used by those competing against Sky, so where is the difference? This is what I mean by the scope of the UKAD investigation. Hoping for anything more than an injection of Fluimicil after Dauphine is just that given what the allegation's scope in the first place is.


that the investigation is but a small part of a picture is not under dispute, nor is what the investigation can 'find', in terms of its scope

however we have move passed that...in seeking to lie its way out of what, if we are to believe their line, is nothing, the team has shown that its turning of 2 donkeys into GT winners can only ever have been achived one way...we don't need to await the outcome of any investigation to understand that...wiggins, sutton, SDB etc al have more than demonstrated it.....

this investigation while of interest is now a side show....the main event is awaiting the edifice to crumble and for froome to be exposed...its already too late for Wiggins...he now just looks foolish....pity...he very nearly got away with it.....
gillan1969
Member
 
Posts: 1,068
Joined: 12 Aug 2009 12:25

21 Oct 2017 13:59

So we're back to talking hypothetically about something we don't know they have done, but because they won't tell us and what they do tell us isn't believable it must be happening because 2 riders didn't used to win Tour de France and now they do? Anti-doping or toppling anything or anyone doesn't work that way gillan.
samhocking
Member
 
Posts: 1,055
Joined: 13 Mar 2013 22:44

Re: Re:

21 Oct 2017 14:41

samhocking wrote:
Benotti69 wrote:
samhocking wrote:Well the scope of UKAD's investigation is Daily Mail's 'allegation of wrongdoing in cycling'. Clearly it can't be one of anti-doping using those words, so expecting something more and not getting it doesn't suggest whitewash alone. The most it can be about is did Fluamicil get injected or did it get nebulized and if injected - who authorised it. 8 to 30 days suspension for an already retired Wiggins and a fine for Team Sky will be the most exciting it can possibly get while remaining within the remit of what an ADO is allowed to investigate.


Obfuscation at its best.

Sky the so called cleanest of clean teams that paid attention to every little detail and left no stone untruned in its quest for 'marginal gains' has no medical records. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!! :lol:

Nothing is defensible about Sky being clean. Nothing.

Sky dope and more than likely use motors. Whether we find that out, IDGAF, because it doesn't matter whether it is Sky or USPS or Qucikstep or Garmin, they are all, IMO, at some level cheating their little hearts out to whatever level they can afford and bribe.

But please stop trying to pretend Sky are clean. You look rather stupid. The question that has to be answered in order to start the discussion of Sky being clean (which is pointless since we know they are not) is where and when did the sport change its culture of doping so that everyone in the sport who before went about the business of doping and looking for new and better ways to dope stopped and said, oh we just need to warm up, wash hands, own pillows, own mattresses, no nutella, pineapple juice in the bidon, blah blah and not EPO, HGH, Steroids, Corticosteroids, Clenbuterol, AICAR, GW150, etc etc etc etc etc

Never mind that Sky have been caught lying continuously about f*****g everything.


I've never said Sky are clean how you think being clean means? I believe they're legally clean and this is perhaps a change in team culture, i.e. your objective is not to evade testing positive with something illegal, it's to not place your riders in a situation that is illegal in the first place. If a team has in-house doctors, medication is being used, you expect it to be used and in Sky's case, they claim legally in terms of anti-doping rules. So far that is the case, even with 50 injections of stored Triamcinolone being the most damning, but in itself not evidence of illegal doping just as a TUE isn't either. I don't believe ethics come into it unless ethics is included in WADA's code and it simply isn't, because anti-doping or not can't be measured that way at CAS.


Testerone patches are not legal. So please stop. Doctors that get sick and cannot speak dont point to a clean team, never mind all the lying they have been caught doing.

Legal doping hahahahahahahahahahaha :lol:
User avatar Benotti69
Veteran
 
Posts: 19,089
Joined: 26 May 2010 09:09

Re:

21 Oct 2017 14:58

samhocking wrote:So we're back to talking hypothetically about something we don't know they have done, but because they won't tell us and what they do tell us isn't believable it must be happening because 2 riders didn't used to win Tour de France and now they do? Anti-doping or toppling anything or anyone doesn't work that way gillan.


anti-doping didn't topple lance nor countless others........
we've moved past anti-doping violations and proof of doping...its too easily gamed

and the 2 riders didn't just not win the tour...they showed absolutely no indication that ever would win the tour.....

sky couldn't have made it any more obvious.......
gillan1969
Member
 
Posts: 1,068
Joined: 12 Aug 2009 12:25

Re: Re:

21 Oct 2017 17:44

gillan1969 wrote:
samhocking wrote:So we're back to talking hypothetically about something we don't know they have done, but because they won't tell us and what they do tell us isn't believable it must be happening because 2 riders didn't used to win Tour de France and now they do? Anti-doping or toppling anything or anyone doesn't work that way gillan.


anti-doping didn't topple lance nor countless others........
we've moved past anti-doping violations and proof of doping...its too easily gamed

and the 2 riders didn't just not win the tour...they showed absolutely no indication that ever would win the tour.....

sky couldn't have made it any more obvious.......


This^^^^
User avatar Benotti69
Veteran
 
Posts: 19,089
Joined: 26 May 2010 09:09

PreviousNext

Return to The Clinic

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google Adsense [Bot], silvergrenade, Yahoo [Bot] and 11 guests

Back to top