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The Clinic is the only place on Cyclingnews where you can discuss doping-related issues. Ask questions, discuss positives or improvements to procedures.

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Re: Re:

14 Dec 2017 02:30

thehog wrote:
El Pistolero wrote:
Irondan wrote:Before we get too crazy trolling the Sky supporters please remember that trolling is against forum rules.

TIA :)


Sky fans have been trolling us for years now. They're noticeably absent now, I wonder why?


I want to know where is Sam Hocking?!? :eek:


He's in the Cycling News article comment section.
MikeS369
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Re: Re:

14 Dec 2017 04:33

MikeS369 wrote:
thehog wrote:
El Pistolero wrote:
Irondan wrote:Before we get too crazy trolling the Sky supporters please remember that trolling is against forum rules.

TIA :)


Sky fans have been trolling us for years now. They're noticeably absent now, I wonder why?


I want to know where is Sam Hocking?!? :eek:


He's in the Cycling News article comment section.

He’s retreated to the BikeSkydar forums where everyone is trying to blame this on the French, LeMonde and Emma Pooley, in that order.
User avatar 42x16ss
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14 Dec 2017 09:14

Ok folks, lets put a stop to that. Calling out other members is trolling.
Vincenzo Nibali:
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Reduce your carbon footprint, ride steel.
User avatar King Boonen
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Re:

14 Dec 2017 09:58

King Boonen wrote:Ok folks, lets put a stop to that. Calling out other members is trolling.


But you seem happy to allow this in the Froome Talk Only forum??
brownbobby
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Re: Re:

14 Dec 2017 12:24

brownbobby wrote:
King Boonen wrote:Ok folks, lets put a stop to that. Calling out other members is trolling.


But you seem happy to allow this in the Froome Talk Only forum??

If you have a problem with a post, report it. Unsurprisingly it’s difficult for us to keep up with every post on a normal day, it’s impossible when something like this hits the news.
Vincenzo Nibali:
"I know how to ride a bike"

Reduce your carbon footprint, ride steel.
User avatar King Boonen
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Re: Re:

14 Dec 2017 12:32

King Boonen wrote:
brownbobby wrote:
King Boonen wrote:Ok folks, lets put a stop to that. Calling out other members is trolling.


But you seem happy to allow this in the Froome Talk Only forum??

If you have a problem with a post, report it. Unsurprisingly it’s difficult for us to keep up with every post on a normal day, it’s impossible when something like this hits the news.


Fair enough. I don't have a problem, i'm too thick skinned to get upset by people on internet forums. Just an observation that there were lots of personal attacks/individuals being called out on the Froome forum these last couple of days, yet the first one on this thread gets pulled up.

But not a problem for me if its not for you.
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14 Dec 2017 13:09

Landa must be laughing his *** off.
"He looks like an Egyptian mummy but he's riding like a king" - Matthew Keenan describing Alberto Contador
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Re:

14 Dec 2017 14:13

Pantani Attacks wrote:Landa must be laughing his *** off.


I think Landa is a bit pissed, he would be the to go guy now if still at Sky...
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Re: Sky

15 Dec 2017 11:56

talking about Diney buying 21st Century Fox (and SKY)
if Disney does not want to have any links to pro cycling, could they create a High-Road situation? the financial backing is guaranteed, but without SKY on the jersey?
pastronef
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Re: Sky

15 Dec 2017 14:25

pastronef wrote:talking about Diney buying 21st Century Fox (and SKY)
if Disney does not want to have any links to pro cycling, could they create a High-Road situation? the financial backing is guaranteed, but without SKY on the jersey?


The Froome story is straight out of a Disney cartoon. Perfect for them. :D
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Re: Sky

15 Dec 2017 14:56

pastronef wrote:talking about Diney buying 21st Century Fox (and SKY)
if Disney does not want to have any links to pro cycling, could they create a High-Road situation? the financial backing is guaranteed, but without SKY on the jersey?


The timing is interesting, even though the Sky/Disney story broke the day after the Froome one. I wonder how much the UCI's patience has run out with Sky, and the penny is starting to drop that the team is really just James Murdoch's hobby project. Looking rationally at the sport's current structure we don't want no Team Sky, we should want 17 more 'Team Sky' s: the UCI must have been hoping for a race to the top, that Sky really were getting a commercial 3-to-400% roi and that the sport would by now be full of blue chip companies making big long-term investments, paying their riders well, outwardly promoting the sport and raising the quality of the sport. Hardly a surprise on that basis that Sky would get away with things other teams don't and could achieve some unlikely victories without +ve tests - they're an exemplar sponsor model in a symbiotic relationship with the governing body.

Except that they're not. Eight years on from Sky's launch and the sport is otherwise made up of the same types of sponsors as before, bike companies and medium-size firms where the owner happens to be a cycling fan. Plus a few more suspect dictatorships trying to sportswash their reputations. And has a load of deathly boring races because one team has more money and protection than the others. And now the guy who's been sinking the €€€ into his hobby won't even be in charge any more. There are now only negatives to Sky's involvement, even the idea of them as a start of something bigger and better is dead. The sport is cutting its losses and hopefully at least we have a few more entertaining races in 2018.
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Re: Sky

15 Dec 2017 15:04

VO2 Max wrote:
pastronef wrote:talking about Diney buying 21st Century Fox (and SKY)
if Disney does not want to have any links to pro cycling, could they create a High-Road situation? the financial backing is guaranteed, but without SKY on the jersey?


The timing is interesting, even though the Sky/Disney story broke the day after the Froome one. I wonder how much the UCI's patience has run out with Sky, and the penny is starting to drop that the team is really just James Murdoch's hobby project. Looking rationally at the sport's current structure we don't want no Team Sky, we should want 17 more 'Team Sky' s: the UCI must have been hoping for a race to the top, that Sky really were getting a commercial 3-to-400% roi and that the sport would by now be full of blue chip companies making big long-term investments, paying their riders well, outwardly promoting the sport and raising the quality of the sport. Hardly a surprise on that basis that Sky would get away with things other teams don't and could achieve some unlikely victories without +ve tests - they're an exemplar sponsor model in a symbiotic relationship with the governing body.

Except that they're not. Eight years on from Sky's launch and the sport is otherwise made up of the same types of sponsors as before, bike companies and medium-size firms where the owner happens to be a cycling fan. Plus a few more suspect dictatorships trying to sportswash their reputations. And has a load of deathly boring races because one team has more money and protection than the others. And now the guy who's been sinking the €€€ into his hobby won't even be in charge any more. There are now only negatives to Sky's involvement, even the idea of them as a start of something bigger and better is dead. The sport is cutting its losses and hopefully at least we have a few more entertaining races in 2018.


The sport is FUBAR'd. Motors have killed it. It is now Disneyesque since Wiggins and Froome started transforming and winning races so easily. They were like superheroes with superpowers that mere mortals would not understand.

As i said the sport is FUBAR'd.
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Re: Sky

15 Dec 2017 15:43

Benotti69 wrote:
VO2 Max wrote:boring stuff what I said


The sport is FUBAR'd. Motors have killed it. It is now Disneyesque since Wiggins and Froome started transforming and winning races so easily. They were like superheroes with superpowers that mere mortals would not understand.

As i said the sport is FUBAR'd.


Nah, the sport would be awesome again if there were 18 teams with loads of money battering each other on a level playing field. What's f'ed up is one team outspending (and out-job-security'ing which is also important) all the others to get the best riders, then getting the best protection from the governing body, just to kill the entertainment with their reductionist strategies.
VO2 Max
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15 Dec 2017 15:52

Drugs have not killed the sport but can't say the same about the political and motor doping.

Political doping is damaging the NFL too. Fans generally want the battle to be decided on the road, not by a bunch of corrupt powerful rich guys in suits.

As for motors, well that goes without saying. It's funny the first time but the shtick gets old quick.
DanielSong39
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Re: Sky

15 Dec 2017 20:13

VO2 Max wrote:
pastronef wrote:talking about Diney buying 21st Century Fox (and SKY)
if Disney does not want to have any links to pro cycling, could they create a High-Road situation? the financial backing is guaranteed, but without SKY on the jersey?


The timing is interesting, even though the Sky/Disney story broke the day after the Froome one. I wonder how much the UCI's patience has run out with Sky, and the penny is starting to drop that the team is really just James Murdoch's hobby project. Looking rationally at the sport's current structure we don't want no Team Sky, we should want 17 more 'Team Sky' s: the UCI must have been hoping for a race to the top, that Sky really were getting a commercial 3-to-400% roi and that the sport would by now be full of blue chip companies making big long-term investments, paying their riders well, outwardly promoting the sport and raising the quality of the sport. Hardly a surprise on that basis that Sky would get away with things other teams don't and could achieve some unlikely victories without +ve tests - they're an exemplar sponsor model in a symbiotic relationship with the governing body.

Except that they're not. Eight years on from Sky's launch and the sport is otherwise made up of the same types of sponsors as before, bike companies and medium-size firms where the owner happens to be a cycling fan. Plus a few more suspect dictatorships trying to sportswash their reputations. And has a load of deathly boring races because one team has more money and protection than the others. And now the guy who's been sinking the €€€ into his hobby won't even be in charge any more. There are now only negatives to Sky's involvement, even the idea of them as a start of something bigger and better is dead. The sport is cutting its losses and hopefully at least we have a few more entertaining races in 2018.


Cycling sponsorship was viable in the boom age of industrialization and post-belicose recovery through a nostalgic Americana for something authentic, with riders who came from the downtrodden working class in picturesque countrysides. Now it's aspired to a 'global' dimension, in a world that could care less about the aforementioned. And today's transnational business is unconcerned for the cultural aspects of European civilization, which is the craddle of the sport. British Sky is paradoxically the end of European cycling, or perhaps its fitting conclusion.
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15 Dec 2017 20:30

Nice post rhub.

Funnily enough, the British/Sky approach always seemed to me, even though appealing to modern way of doing things
- more like imposing their empire on the sport. In all it's glory.
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Re:

15 Dec 2017 20:40

mrhender wrote:Nice post rhub.

Funnily enough, the British/Sky approach always seemed to me, even though appealing to modern way of doing things
- more like imposing their empire on the sport. In all it's glory.


But ironically on the heel of that which eclipsed it.
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15 Dec 2017 20:51

Exactly.

I am not sure they (to quote Michelle) "fully" understand the irony.

Brailsford seems to be on a really long leash. Wonder how much longer. As they say, he IS team sky. So its hold or fold i guess.
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15 Dec 2017 20:53

Froome might say,

It's puff.. or pass..
User avatar mrhender
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15 Dec 2017 22:35

I'm taking a nice little drink of schadenfreude on this.

If only for this reason: Sky have been PR'ing their backsides off for a good year around Wiggins, UKAD, jiffy bag etc. Anyone who examines those discourses closely can see how dodgy it all looks, and how much it destroys their credibility.

But: good expensive PR can override careful analysis of the discourse. And by the end of the year, they had a tdf, a vuelta and the Wiggins stink kind of blowing away.

And then: boom Froome. 12 months of painstaking PR utterly destroyed - no matter which way the cookie crumbles from here, the cost to the 'brand' is massive, and even the most brilliant spin doctors probably have to concede that the game is up.
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