Log in:  

Register

Sky

The Clinic is the only place on Cyclingnews where you can discuss doping-related issues. Ask questions, discuss positives or improvements to procedures.

Moderators: Eshnar, King Boonen, Red Rick, Pricey_sky

Re: Re:

27 Feb 2018 09:35

macbindle wrote:
LaFlorecita wrote:
macbindle wrote:
Going by your avatar you are probably good at spotting dopers :D

It's a mark of how cynical the sport and it's spectators have become that Froome's attack on Ventoux is not regarded as panache.

It is not the doping that bothers me, it's the arrogance


And yet your post was all about spotting what you consider to be suspicious and potentially doped performances. Nothing to do with arrogance.

I found Contador's attempt to convince us that a widely used PED entering his system from a specific piece of meat from a specific butcher to be arrogance in the extreme. Indeed, as a rider he was widely known to be disliked due to arrogance.

I agree with you that Team Sky have displayed spectacular arrogance, but I see a fair dose of wilful blindness where it suits and an application of double-standards in quite a number of posts hereabouts.

I don't particularly care that much about this, but I do think that ultimately if the sport is to change then everyone has to go under the bus.


it´s a shame Wisniowski is not wearing the Quick-Step jersey anymore. there would be nothing but praise, the wolfpack delivers again, the strong rider from Quickstep shows his progress riding for the belgian squad, Wisniowski uses his experience to stay away, he was already on form in Algarve when he was the best quickstep rider in the TT, good boys quicksteppers thank Wisniowski for his performance etc etc ;)
pastronef
Senior Member
 
Posts: 4,387
Joined: 19 Aug 2011 08:25
Location: Italia

Re: Re:

27 Feb 2018 11:37

macbindle wrote:
LaFlorecita wrote:
macbindle wrote:
Going by your avatar you are probably good at spotting dopers :D

It's a mark of how cynical the sport and it's spectators have become that Froome's attack on Ventoux is not regarded as panache.

It is not the doping that bothers me, it's the arrogance


And yet your post was all about spotting what you consider to be suspicious and potentially doped performances. Nothing to do with arrogance.

I found Contador's attempt to convince us that a widely used PED entering his system from a specific piece of meat from a specific butcher to be arrogance in the extreme. Indeed, as a rider he was widely known to be disliked due to arrogance.

I agree with you that Team Sky have displayed spectacular arrogance, but I see a fair dose of wilful blindness where it suits and an application of double-standards in quite a number of posts hereabouts.

I don't particularly care that much about this, but I do think that ultimately if the sport is to change then everyone has to go under the bus.


Serious question, Macbindle ... WTF are you talking about!?!

Or are you just droning the Clinic party line, "under the bus" 'n all, FFS.
Alpe73
Member
 
Posts: 788
Joined: 27 Dec 2012 01:23

27 Feb 2018 11:57

You have to read the part you've highlighted in the context of the rest of my post.
(Warning: Posts may contain traces of irony)
User avatar macbindle
Member
 
Posts: 1,366
Joined: 22 Dec 2017 16:46

27 Feb 2018 11:59

Who will end up owning Sky?

Murdoch's attempts at a complete take over have been halted ....

Even if they go through, Sky would still end up being owned by Disney ...

But now Comcast has come barrelling in with an audacious attempt to take over Sky ... or is it just a move meant to wind up Murdoch?

Maybe Brailsford is already in talks with the Walmart brats and Louis Vuitton...
User avatar fmk_RoI
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2,957
Joined: 16 Sep 2010 07:31

Re:

27 Feb 2018 12:03

macbindle wrote:You obviously haven't heard what his team mates thought of him.

And no, you are also wrong in yourestimation of Contador's doping defence.

He is widely liked by his (ex)-colleagues... the only ones who he apparently was on bad terms with were Lance and Kreuziger aka Backstabber. Many of his ex-teammates loved working with him and admired him. Please don't spread lies about him.
Klödi, Basso, Nico Roche, Oscar Perreiro, Rogers, Tiralongo, Luisle, Pantano, Bennati, Scarponi (RIP), Zubeldia, Theuns, obviously Jesus, just a couple of names that come to mind and I'm probably forgetting plenty. Only good things said about him by his sport directors also.
And then there are many riders that have never raced for the same team that also like and/or admire him, Aru, Bardet, Brambilla, Tommeke, Samu a few examples
User avatar LaFlorecita
Veteran
 
Posts: 30,843
Joined: 15 May 2011 09:53
Location: Utrecht, The Netherlands

27 Feb 2018 12:13

Lot of dopers in that list ;)

If I recall Oleg gave a fairly excoriating summary of Contador.

Can I ask you a question though. I picked you up on your doping-spotting of Sky riders which is based upon what you perceive to be exceptional performances. At which point during Contador's career did you start to notice that his performances were unnatural?
(Warning: Posts may contain traces of irony)
User avatar macbindle
Member
 
Posts: 1,366
Joined: 22 Dec 2017 16:46

Re:

27 Feb 2018 12:30

macbindle wrote:You have to read the part you've highlighted in the context of the rest of my post.


Have read it ... for 2nd time ... my question remains.

C’mon, give it a whirl.
Alpe73
Member
 
Posts: 788
Joined: 27 Dec 2012 01:23

Re:

27 Feb 2018 12:32

macbindle wrote:Lot of dopers in that list ;)

If I recall Oleg gave a fairly excoriating summary of Contador.

Can I ask you a question though. I picked you up on your doping-spotting of Sky riders which is based upon what you perceive to be exceptional performances. At which point during Contador's career did you start to notice that his performances were unnatural?

Oleg? Really? He hated everyone but himself.
User avatar veganrob
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2,496
Joined: 29 Aug 2010 23:15
Location: The D

27 Feb 2018 12:32

Mod hat on:

This is the Sky thread. Lets nip this Contador strand in the bud now. If you want to discuss Contador please take it to the appropriate thread.

Thanks,

KB.
Vincenzo Nibali:
"I know how to ride a bike"

Reduce your carbon footprint, ride steel.
User avatar King Boonen
Administrator
 
Posts: 7,674
Joined: 25 Jul 2012 14:38

Re: Re:

27 Feb 2018 13:25

Alpe73 wrote:
macbindle wrote:You have to read the part you've highlighted in the context of the rest of my post.


Have read it ... for 2nd time ... my question remains.

C’mon, give it a whirl.


Sure, no problem.

My post was about double-standards, and fixating on one team. It doesn't matter (to me) what team is being fixated upon, and of course in this case it's Sky.

I think, in some way, this is synonymous with omerta in the peloton. It's a sort of whataboutery which distracts from the bigger picture.

As for clinic line, I dont really know what that means given my infrequent postings here.
(Warning: Posts may contain traces of irony)
User avatar macbindle
Member
 
Posts: 1,366
Joined: 22 Dec 2017 16:46

27 Feb 2018 14:05

No double standards as far as Sky is in question. They're the worst, and the margin is big, very big. We saw that with US Postal in Verbruggen era, and we saw that with Sky in McQuaid, and especially Cookson, era's. No other team came close in entire cycling history!
User avatar Blanco
Member
 
Posts: 1,496
Joined: 06 Jun 2017 19:33
Location: Serbia

27 Feb 2018 14:09

Really? Evidence??

All we know is that they abused the TUE system and that Froome over-used an asthma medicine.
(Warning: Posts may contain traces of irony)
User avatar macbindle
Member
 
Posts: 1,366
Joined: 22 Dec 2017 16:46

Re:

27 Feb 2018 15:12

macbindle wrote:Really? Evidence??

All we know is that they abused the TUE system and that Froome over-used an asthma medicine.


Evidence? I'm not in court, I call it as I see it!
You just need to see them race in races which are most important to them (aka Le Tour), and everything becomes clear.
They make wonders. They turn track specialists into climbers, nobody's into multiple GT winners, lightweight riders into best TT-ists, rolleurs into de luxe climbers, and so on and on...
They invented marginal gains :lol: They train harder, they're smarter, they have more determination, etc.
And they are doing that being totally clean. We just need to believe them, that's all. They're the champions of clean cycling. All we need to do is to believe on their word. That's it.
User avatar Blanco
Member
 
Posts: 1,496
Joined: 06 Jun 2017 19:33
Location: Serbia

Re:

27 Feb 2018 16:51

macbindle wrote:Lot of dopers in that list ;)

If I recall Oleg gave a fairly excoriating summary of Contador.

Can I ask you a question though. I picked you up on your doping-spotting of Sky riders which is based upon what you perceive to be exceptional performances. At which point during Contador's career did you start to notice that his performances were unnatural?


You're using Oleg to support your position?? Good luck with that!
User avatar Angliru
Veteran
 
Posts: 7,349
Joined: 10 Mar 2009 13:30

Re: Re:

27 Feb 2018 17:45

Blanco wrote:
macbindle wrote:Really? Evidence??

All we know is that they abused the TUE system and that Froome over-used an asthma medicine.


Evidence? I'm not in court, I call it as I see it!
You just need to see them race in races which are most important to them (aka Le Tour), and everything becomes clear.
They make wonders. They turn track specialists into climbers, nobody's into multiple GT winners, lightweight riders into best TT-ists, rolleurs into de luxe climbers, and so on and on...
They invented marginal gains :lol: They train harder, they're smarter, they have more determination, etc.
And they are doing that being totally clean. We just need to believe them, that's all. They're the champions of clean cycling. All we need to do is to believe on their word. That's it.


They haven't managed to get fat guys climbing mountains like aeroplanes (to quote Lemond) so they aren't the worst in cycling history. ;)

It's nonsense in fact. Sheer overstatement and exaggeration. I agree with some of what you said with your allusions to Froome, but if you think that they run a team wide doping programme à la USPS, then you are deluded. Sure, they occupy grey areas. Sure, they probably outright dope certain riders, but to pretend that they dope as if it was the 1990s is just nonsense.

Oh...and they have an active PR department, hence the marginal gains nonsense. Big deal.
(Warning: Posts may contain traces of irony)
User avatar macbindle
Member
 
Posts: 1,366
Joined: 22 Dec 2017 16:46

Re:

27 Feb 2018 21:34

fmk_RoI wrote:Who will end up owning Sky?

Murdoch's attempts at a complete take over have been halted ....

Even if they go through, Sky would still end up being owned by Disney ...

But now Comcast has come barrelling in with an audacious attempt to take over Sky ... or is it just a move meant to wind up Murdoch?

Maybe Brailsford is already in talks with the Walmart brats and Louis Vuitton...


Sky's soccer deal has made them underpriced, so Comcast is going for it as the UK authorities would probably be glad if they got the 61 % instead of the Murdochs/Disney.
"Are you going to believe me or what you see with your own eyes?"

Don't mention Khashoggi! It’s a collusion witch hoax!
User avatar Robert5091
Senior Member
 
Posts: 3,967
Joined: 29 Mar 2016 08:56
Location: stockholm, sweden

Re: Re:

27 Feb 2018 21:54

macbindle wrote:
Blanco wrote:
macbindle wrote:Really? Evidence??

All we know is that they abused the TUE system and that Froome over-used an asthma medicine.


Evidence? I'm not in court, I call it as I see it!
You just need to see them race in races which are most important to them (aka Le Tour), and everything becomes clear.
They make wonders. They turn track specialists into climbers, nobody's into multiple GT winners, lightweight riders into best TT-ists, rolleurs into de luxe climbers, and so on and on...
They invented marginal gains :lol: They train harder, they're smarter, they have more determination, etc.
And they are doing that being totally clean. We just need to believe them, that's all. They're the champions of clean cycling. All we need to do is to believe on their word. That's it.


They haven't managed to get fat guys climbing mountains like aeroplanes (to quote Lemond) so they aren't the worst in cycling history. ;)

It's nonsense in fact. Sheer overstatement and exaggeration. I agree with some of what you said with your allusions to Froome, but if you think that they run a team wide doping programme à la USPS, then you are deluded. Sure, they occupy grey areas. Sure, they probably outright dope certain riders, but to pretend that they dope as if it was the 1990s is just nonsense.

Oh...and they have an active PR department, hence the marginal gains nonsense. Big deal.


But they have skinny guys of 65-70 kg regularly beating worlds top TT-ists, while climbing at the same time like freaking Bahamontes! So I guess there's no much difference...

As far as wide doping program concerns, let's wait a bit, I reckon an unpleasant surprise awaits you.

And about that PR stuff, nobody done that in such manner in whole history of cycling, with such arrogance and hypocrisy. They called the avalanche, let them bear the consequences now!
User avatar Blanco
Member
 
Posts: 1,496
Joined: 06 Jun 2017 19:33
Location: Serbia

27 Feb 2018 22:01

Unpleasant surprise for me? No. I don't really care. That is why I can take a dispassionate and objective view. You are too emotionally involved. Look at the language you use. It's full of hysteria.

I won't lament the inevitable fall of Team Sky, but they aren't the worst there has ever been by a big margin and when they go some other team will take their place.
(Warning: Posts may contain traces of irony)
User avatar macbindle
Member
 
Posts: 1,366
Joined: 22 Dec 2017 16:46

Re: Re:

27 Feb 2018 22:02

Blanco wrote:
macbindle wrote:
Blanco wrote:
macbindle wrote:Really? Evidence??

All we know is that they abused the TUE system and that Froome over-used an asthma medicine.


Evidence? I'm not in court, I call it as I see it!
You just need to see them race in races which are most important to them (aka Le Tour), and everything becomes clear.
They make wonders. They turn track specialists into climbers, nobody's into multiple GT winners, lightweight riders into best TT-ists, rolleurs into de luxe climbers, and so on and on...
They invented marginal gains :lol: They train harder, they're smarter, they have more determination, etc.
And they are doing that being totally clean. We just need to believe them, that's all. They're the champions of clean cycling. All we need to do is to believe on their word. That's it.


They haven't managed to get fat guys climbing mountains like aeroplanes (to quote Lemond) so they aren't the worst in cycling history. ;)

It's nonsense in fact. Sheer overstatement and exaggeration. I agree with some of what you said with your allusions to Froome, but if you think that they run a team wide doping programme à la USPS, then you are deluded. Sure, they occupy grey areas. Sure, they probably outright dope certain riders, but to pretend that they dope as if it was the 1990s is just nonsense.

Oh...and they have an active PR department, hence the marginal gains nonsense. Big deal.


But they have skinny guys of 65-70 kg regularly beating worlds top TT-ists, while climbing at the same time like freaking Bahamontes! So I guess there's no much difference...

As far as wide doping program concerns, let's wait a bit, I reckon an unpleasant surprise awaits you.

And about that PR stuff, nobody done that in such manner in whole history of cycling, with such arrogance and hypocrisy. They called the avalanche, let them bear the consequences now!


regularly?

T.MArtin has been beaten by many since last year. and it happened before, like when Alberto beat the TT world champion at the Tour 2009
pastronef
Senior Member
 
Posts: 4,387
Joined: 19 Aug 2011 08:25
Location: Italia

Re: Re:

27 Feb 2018 23:18

macbindle wrote:
Alpe73 wrote:
macbindle wrote:You have to read the part you've highlighted in the context of the rest of my post.


Have read it ... for 2nd time ... my question remains.

C’mon, give it a whirl.


Sure, no problem.

My post was about double-standards, and fixating on one team. It doesn't matter (to me) what team is being fixated upon, and of course in this case it's Sky.

I think, in some way, this is synonymous with omerta in the peloton. It's a sort of whataboutery which distracts from the bigger picture.

As for clinic line, I dont really know what that means given my infrequent postings here.


1. Yes, I'm with you on that ... but that practice won't stop here ... it's a lifeblood.
2. Don't see that as a valid comparison ... but who cares ...
3. What I am simply asking is ... your opinion in regards to "cycling needing to be fixed" and if that's to happen "everyone needs to thrown under the bus."Thanks in advance.
Alpe73
Member
 
Posts: 788
Joined: 27 Dec 2012 01:23

PreviousNext

Return to The Clinic

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 12 guests

Back to top