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The Clinic is the only place on Cyclingnews where you can discuss doping-related issues. Ask questions, discuss positives or improvements to procedures.

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Re: Re:

26 Mar 2018 03:42

Red Rick wrote:
macbindle wrote:When Sutton admitted it on live tv any debate was over.

What did Sutton admit to?

This has a bit more info:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cycling/2018/03/05/sir-bradley-wiggins-team-sky-facing-new-doping-claims-former/
User avatar Ripper
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Re:

26 Mar 2018 08:13

macbindle wrote:No I think he admitted to it being unethical

my reading of things is that is how others judge what sutton said..................never heard
sutton state TUE use was unethical at team sky/BC

he states..........'where a rider is at 95%...TUE could see them reach that 100%'....for Sutton it's not about
ethics but ..the winning performance

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cycling/2017/11/20/shane-sutton-condemned-british-cyclists-tues-claim/

Mark L
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26 Mar 2018 08:25

If you read Ripper's linked article it states that Sutton submitted written evidence where he stated that Wiggins actions were unethical
(Warning: Posts may contain traces of irony)
User avatar macbindle
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26 Mar 2018 09:04

ache until
each unlit
cut inhale
lunatic he

Anyway you anagramise it
you still get:
u n e t h i c a l
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03 Apr 2018 10:52

Seems like the morale in the team is gone.
Last edited by Serpentin on 03 Apr 2018 14:34, edited 1 time in total.
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Re:

03 Apr 2018 10:58

Serpentin wrote:Seems like the moral in the team is gone.

morale surely?
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Re: Sky

03 Apr 2018 11:25

Although Suttons comments are not published with the report for a wider context to what was selected in the report (just said to exist under 135 - Correspondence between Shane Sutton) the words Sutton gave to the committee were "what Brad was doing was unethical but not against the rules".

Suttons comments generally are about using a TUE to get a rider at 95% to 100% so I assume he means it's unethical to use a TUE to get a rider to 100% performance level even though it's within the rules. Kind of along the lines of Tim Wellens who said he would rather quit the race that get a TUE for his heat allergies. Wellens says that is not ethical in the same way as Suton, but even though within the rules does not use it to stay in the race.
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Re: Re:

03 Apr 2018 14:35

TourOfSardinia wrote:
Serpentin wrote:Seems like the moral in the team is gone.

morale surely?



Yes, that`s what I wrote. Read again ;)
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Re: Re:

03 Apr 2018 15:04

TourOfSardinia wrote:
Serpentin wrote:Seems like the moral in the team is gone.

morale surely?


I think the moral left the team after the 2010 season...
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Re: Sky

03 Apr 2018 17:00

samhocking wrote:Although Suttons comments are not published with the report for a wider context to what was selected in the report (just said to exist under 135 - Correspondence between Shane Sutton) the words Sutton gave to the committee were "what Brad was doing was unethical but not against the rules".

Suttons comments generally are about using a TUE to get a rider at 95% to 100% so I assume he means it's unethical to use a TUE to get a rider to 100% performance level even though it's within the rules. Kind of along the lines of Tim Wellens who said he would rather quit the race that get a TUE for his heat allergies. Wellens says that is not ethical in the same way as Suton, but even though within the rules does not use it to stay in the race.


Sutton's utterances contain internal contradictions from minute to minute. He's not the sharpest tool but he's ruthless. So don't be surprised if his evidence doesn't stack up under close scrutiny

But gotta love the way that every time he speaks out in Sky/BC's defence he makes things worse for them. Not forgetting the leaks. And the blackmail

The "unethical" comment was design not accident. Walsh explained it was just Sutton, Brailsfraud, Wiggo and Freeman in on the dodgy TUE strategy. If not for Fancy Bears they'd have got away with it too. Sutton wanted to make sure DCMS put the boot in
Wiggo's Package
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Re: Sky

05 Apr 2018 11:01

Wiggo's Package wrote:
samhocking wrote:Although Suttons comments are not published with the report for a wider context to what was selected in the report (just said to exist under 135 - Correspondence between Shane Sutton) the words Sutton gave to the committee were "what Brad was doing was unethical but not against the rules".

Suttons comments generally are about using a TUE to get a rider at 95% to 100% so I assume he means it's unethical to use a TUE to get a rider to 100% performance level even though it's within the rules. Kind of along the lines of Tim Wellens who said he would rather quit the race that get a TUE for his heat allergies. Wellens says that is not ethical in the same way as Suton, but even though within the rules does not use it to stay in the race.


Sutton's utterances contain internal contradictions from minute to minute. He's not the sharpest tool but he's ruthless. So don't be surprised if his evidence doesn't stack up under close scrutiny

But gotta love the way that every time he speaks out in Sky/BC's defence he makes things worse for them. Not forgetting the leaks. And the blackmail

The "unethical" comment was design not accident. Walsh explained it was just Sutton, Brailsfraud, Wiggo and Freeman in on the dodgy TUE strategy. If not for Fancy Bears they'd have got away with it too. Sutton wanted to make sure DCMS put the boot in


That's not the impression I've got. Sutton's been consistent in his comments about TUEs. He's added the unethical part, but that's what the whole debat is about, is is it ethical. Obviously it's not in a bread and water racing desire, but in reality it's within the rules. i.e. use them to get a rider to 100%. AS for getting away with it. From who? The fans?
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Re: Sky

05 Apr 2018 11:44

Wiggo's Package wrote:
samhocking wrote:Although Suttons comments are not published with the report for a wider context to what was selected in the report (just said to exist under 135 - Correspondence between Shane Sutton) the words Sutton gave to the committee were "what Brad was doing was unethical but not against the rules".

Suttons comments generally are about using a TUE to get a rider at 95% to 100% so I assume he means it's unethical to use a TUE to get a rider to 100% performance level even though it's within the rules. Kind of along the lines of Tim Wellens who said he would rather quit the race that get a TUE for his heat allergies. Wellens says that is not ethical in the same way as Suton, but even though within the rules does not use it to stay in the race.


Sutton's utterances contain internal contradictions from minute to minute. He's not the sharpest tool but he's ruthless. So don't be surprised if his evidence doesn't stack up under close scrutiny

But gotta love the way that every time he speaks out in Sky/BC's defence he makes things worse for them. Not forgetting the leaks. And the blackmail

The "unethical" comment was design not accident. Walsh explained it was just Sutton, Brailsfraud, Wiggo and Freeman in on the dodgy TUE strategy. If not for Fancy Bears they'd have got away with it too. Sutton wanted to make sure DCMS put the boot in


So ... Russian hackers ... without motive ... find that Wiigins and Sky may have been 'unethical.'

Is that the big story?
Alpe73
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Re: Sky

05 Apr 2018 13:55

Alpe73 wrote:
Wiggo's Package wrote:
samhocking wrote:Although Suttons comments are not published with the report for a wider context to what was selected in the report (just said to exist under 135 - Correspondence between Shane Sutton) the words Sutton gave to the committee were "what Brad was doing was unethical but not against the rules".

Suttons comments generally are about using a TUE to get a rider at 95% to 100% so I assume he means it's unethical to use a TUE to get a rider to 100% performance level even though it's within the rules. Kind of along the lines of Tim Wellens who said he would rather quit the race that get a TUE for his heat allergies. Wellens says that is not ethical in the same way as Suton, but even though within the rules does not use it to stay in the race.


Sutton's utterances contain internal contradictions from minute to minute. He's not the sharpest tool but he's ruthless. So don't be surprised if his evidence doesn't stack up under close scrutiny

But gotta love the way that every time he speaks out in Sky/BC's defence he makes things worse for them. Not forgetting the leaks. And the blackmail

The "unethical" comment was design not accident. Walsh explained it was just Sutton, Brailsfraud, Wiggo and Freeman in on the dodgy TUE strategy. If not for Fancy Bears they'd have got away with it too. Sutton wanted to make sure DCMS put the boot in


So ... Russian hackers ... without motive ... find that Wiigins and Sky may have been 'unethical.'

Is that the big story?


Russian hackers without motive? Other than the Russians being banned from the Olympics for state sponsored doping. An easy enough thing to forget if you try hard enough :rolleyes:

And UKAD were sent in to turn Russian anti-doping round. Yes "No bad news before Rio" UKAD! That would hack off even that nice Mr Putin :razz:
Wiggo's Package
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Re: Sky

05 Apr 2018 13:58

samhocking wrote:
Wiggo's Package wrote:
samhocking wrote:Although Suttons comments are not published with the report for a wider context to what was selected in the report (just said to exist under 135 - Correspondence between Shane Sutton) the words Sutton gave to the committee were "what Brad was doing was unethical but not against the rules".

Suttons comments generally are about using a TUE to get a rider at 95% to 100% so I assume he means it's unethical to use a TUE to get a rider to 100% performance level even though it's within the rules. Kind of along the lines of Tim Wellens who said he would rather quit the race that get a TUE for his heat allergies. Wellens says that is not ethical in the same way as Suton, but even though within the rules does not use it to stay in the race.


Sutton's utterances contain internal contradictions from minute to minute. He's not the sharpest tool but he's ruthless. So don't be surprised if his evidence doesn't stack up under close scrutiny

But gotta love the way that every time he speaks out in Sky/BC's defence he makes things worse for them. Not forgetting the leaks. And the blackmail

The "unethical" comment was design not accident. Walsh explained it was just Sutton, Brailsfraud, Wiggo and Freeman in on the dodgy TUE strategy. If not for Fancy Bears they'd have got away with it too. Sutton wanted to make sure DCMS put the boot in


That's not the impression I've got. Sutton's been consistent in his comments about TUEs. He's added the unethical part, but that's what the whole debat is about, is is it ethical. Obviously it's not in a bread and water racing desire, but in reality it's within the rules. i.e. use them to get a rider to 100%. AS for getting away with it. From who? The fans?


So Sutton's been consistent in his comments about TUEs

Apart from when he said were unethical

Thank you, I rest my case, your honour ;)
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Re: Sky

05 Apr 2018 14:16

Wiggo's Package wrote:
Alpe73 wrote:
Wiggo's Package wrote:
samhocking wrote:Although Suttons comments are not published with the report for a wider context to what was selected in the report (just said to exist under 135 - Correspondence between Shane Sutton) the words Sutton gave to the committee were "what Brad was doing was unethical but not against the rules".

Suttons comments generally are about using a TUE to get a rider at 95% to 100% so I assume he means it's unethical to use a TUE to get a rider to 100% performance level even though it's within the rules. Kind of along the lines of Tim Wellens who said he would rather quit the race that get a TUE for his heat allergies. Wellens says that is not ethical in the same way as Suton, but even though within the rules does not use it to stay in the race.


Sutton's utterances contain internal contradictions from minute to minute. He's not the sharpest tool but he's ruthless. So don't be surprised if his evidence doesn't stack up under close scrutiny

But gotta love the way that every time he speaks out in Sky/BC's defence he makes things worse for them. Not forgetting the leaks. And the blackmail

The "unethical" comment was design not accident. Walsh explained it was just Sutton, Brailsfraud, Wiggo and Freeman in on the dodgy TUE strategy. If not for Fancy Bears they'd have got away with it too. Sutton wanted to make sure DCMS put the boot in


So ... Russian hackers ... without motive ... find that Wiigins and Sky may have been 'unethical.'

Is that the big story?


Russian hackers without motive? Other than the Russians being banned from the Olympics for state sponsored doping. An easy enough thing to forget if you try hard enough :rolleyes:

And UKAD were sent in to turn Russian anti-doping round. Yes "No bad news before Rio" UKAD! That would hack off even that nice Mr Putin :razz:


Missing the sarcasm and the point, this morning, WP. ;)
Alpe73
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Re:

05 Apr 2018 15:56

macbindle wrote:If you read Ripper's linked article it states that Sutton submitted written evidence where he stated that Wiggins actions were unethical

morals mean nothing in cycling
rick james
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05 Apr 2018 15:59

I disagree.

There are plenty of examples of riders who refuse TUEs even when unwell...let alone abuse them when not really Ill in order to gain an unfair advantage.
(Warning: Posts may contain traces of irony)
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Re: Sky

05 Apr 2018 16:46

Alpe73 wrote:
Wiggo's Package wrote:
Alpe73 wrote:
Wiggo's Package wrote:
samhocking wrote:Although Suttons comments are not published with the report for a wider context to what was selected in the report (just said to exist under 135 - Correspondence between Shane Sutton) the words Sutton gave to the committee were "what Brad was doing was unethical but not against the rules".

Suttons comments generally are about using a TUE to get a rider at 95% to 100% so I assume he means it's unethical to use a TUE to get a rider to 100% performance level even though it's within the rules. Kind of along the lines of Tim Wellens who said he would rather quit the race that get a TUE for his heat allergies. Wellens says that is not ethical in the same way as Suton, but even though within the rules does not use it to stay in the race.


Sutton's utterances contain internal contradictions from minute to minute. He's not the sharpest tool but he's ruthless. So don't be surprised if his evidence doesn't stack up under close scrutiny

But gotta love the way that every time he speaks out in Sky/BC's defence he makes things worse for them. Not forgetting the leaks. And the blackmail

The "unethical" comment was design not accident. Walsh explained it was just Sutton, Brailsfraud, Wiggo and Freeman in on the dodgy TUE strategy. If not for Fancy Bears they'd have got away with it too. Sutton wanted to make sure DCMS put the boot in


So ... Russian hackers ... without motive ... find that Wiigins and Sky may have been 'unethical.'

Is that the big story?


Russian hackers without motive? Other than the Russians being banned from the Olympics for state sponsored doping. An easy enough thing to forget if you try hard enough :rolleyes:

And UKAD were sent in to turn Russian anti-doping round. Yes "No bad news before Rio" UKAD! That would hack off even that nice Mr Putin :razz:


Missing the sarcasm and the point, this morning, WP. ;)


Ha!

If Alpe73 v2.0 is capable of irony and humour then welcome back, dude

Btw v1.0 was not so much fun ;)
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05 Apr 2018 16:56

Lol about v2.0
:D
User avatar TourOfSardinia
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Re:

05 Apr 2018 16:56

macbindle wrote:I disagree.

There are plenty of examples of riders who refuse TUEs even when unwell...let alone abuse them when not really Ill in order to gain an unfair advantage.

yes, Chris Froome being one
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