Log in:  

Register

Sky

The Clinic is the only place on Cyclingnews where you can discuss doping-related issues. Ask questions, discuss positives or improvements to procedures.

Moderators: Eshnar, King Boonen, Red Rick, Pricey_sky

28 Aug 2018 19:38

what's the source for 2014 numbers?

it's different on CQ for example

http://cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/rider_stats.asp?riderid=12923
User avatar roundabout
Veteran
 
Posts: 13,185
Joined: 07 Jun 2010 11:43

Re:

28 Aug 2018 19:59

roundabout wrote:what's the source for 2014 numbers?

it's different on CQ for example

http://cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/rider_stats.asp?riderid=12923


Don't know where the numbers come from but on the CQ page linked it says "* Only races of category .1 or above and finished races are counted!".

He DNFed Tour de Romandie after 3 stages plus prologue and the Dauphine after 6 stages including an ITT - so that might be it.
wansteadimp
Junior Member
 
Posts: 281
Joined: 20 Mar 2013 12:16

Re: Re:

28 Aug 2018 20:40

pastronef wrote:in 2014, when he won the Worlds he did 18500 kms of racing

won at mallorca challenge
won Algarve
won Strade Bianche
2nd Basque Country
2nd Tour of Britain

by the end of the Vuelta 2018 he´ll have 14000 kms of racing


It's not as simple as mere numbers, as I'm sure you'll know. Firstly the worlds is just one day - much easier to build and hold sufficient form for that one day, even late in the season, than it is for 3 weeks.

Secondly the type of racing has been different. He's focused a little more on stage racing this year, and most important is his Tour effort. He buried himself for days in this year's edition. I refuse to believe it's possible clean to do as much domestique work as he did in July, and then turn around and be a lead GC contender come late August, having done another stage race in between.

Would that seem reasonable to you?
Mamil
Junior Member
 
Posts: 109
Joined: 11 Jan 2018 11:24

Re: Sky

28 Aug 2018 23:01

Or let's look at what really matters most - his k's this year in comparison with his rivals.

Excluding Kelderman, who's been injured, if we look at the CQ data for Uran, Yates, Quintana, Aru, Pinot, Bennett, Lopez and Valverde, they have all raced between 6270 and 8973km this year. Kwiatkowski is a clear outlier, having done 10,180km.

On top of this Quintana is the only one who probably put in as much effort at the Tour as Kwiatkowski - some of the others of course weren't even there.

So if Kwiatkowski can still be hanging with these guys in the 3rd week, considering all of the above, I think I can safely say that that would be remarkable.
Mamil
Junior Member
 
Posts: 109
Joined: 11 Jan 2018 11:24

Re: Sky

29 Aug 2018 02:15

Mamil wrote:Or let's look at what really matters most - his k's this year in comparison with his rivals.

Excluding Kelderman, who's been injured, if we look at the CQ data for Uran, Yates, Quintana, Aru, Pinot, Bennett, Lopez and Valverde, they have all raced between 6270 and 8973km this year. Kwiatkowski is a clear outlier, having done 10,180km.

On top of this Quintana is the only one who probably put in as much effort at the Tour as Kwiatkowski - some of the others of course weren't even there.

So if Kwiatkowski can still be hanging with these guys in the 3rd week, considering all of the above, I think I can safely say that that would be remarkable.


Well said and it’s very likely that MK will be there on Sundays first real MTF and into the third week.

Heck, Sky riders might even go 1-2-3 at the Worlds :cool:
User avatar thehog
Veteran
 
Posts: 21,481
Joined: 27 Jul 2009 20:00

Re: Re:

29 Aug 2018 06:56

Mamil wrote:
pastronef wrote:in 2014, when he won the Worlds he did 18500 kms of racing

won at mallorca challenge
won Algarve
won Strade Bianche
2nd Basque Country
2nd Tour of Britain

by the end of the Vuelta 2018 he´ll have 14000 kms of racing


It's not as simple as mere numbers, as I'm sure you'll know. Firstly the worlds is just one day - much easier to build and hold sufficient form for that one day, even late in the season, than it is for 3 weeks.

Secondly the type of racing has been different. He's focused a little more on stage racing this year, and most important is his Tour effort. He buried himself for days in this year's edition. I refuse to believe it's possible clean to do as much domestique work as he did in July, and then turn around and be a lead GC contender come late August, having done another stage race in between.

Would that seem reasonable to you?



you my friend don't know the clinic then!!!!
rick james
Senior Member
 
Posts: 4,447
Joined: 02 Sep 2014 13:21
Location: Ecosse

30 Aug 2018 10:38

I'll start whining about Kwiatkowski if he top 5s this Vuelta. So far I don't think he's been one of Sky's top 10dodgy outliers
Veni, Vidi, Kirby

I came, I saw, I was dead wrong as per usual
User avatar Red Rick
Administrator
 
Posts: 15,635
Joined: 20 Feb 2012 18:15

Re:

30 Aug 2018 20:34

Red Rick wrote:I'll start whining about Kwiatkowski if he top 5s this Vuelta. So far I don't think he's been one of Sky's top 10dodgy outliers

Don't leave us hanging, who are the top 10?
Singer01
Member
 
Posts: 1,123
Joined: 18 Nov 2013 19:04

31 Aug 2018 02:41

He's the one guy on their list who, from the time he was a neo-pro, always had the GC question mark hanging over him.

The same cannot be said for all their other GT champions.
User avatar The Hegelian
Member
 
Posts: 856
Joined: 06 Jul 2014 09:18

Re:

31 Aug 2018 21:21

The Hegelian wrote:He's the one guy on their list who, from the time he was a neo-pro, always had the GC question mark hanging over him.

The same cannot be said for all their other GT champions.


Yeah, Froome and GT were always....wait a minute, wtf?
Huapango
Junior Member
 
Posts: 124
Joined: 23 Apr 2016 01:19

Re: Sky

02 Sep 2018 17:08

JosephK wrote:Kwiatkowski :lol:

Gonna get his transformation on.


OK, so I am proven wrong on this (Stage 9). For Kwia, not British enough for Sky?
User avatar JosephK
Junior Member
 
Posts: 256
Joined: 24 Jul 2016 15:49

03 Sep 2018 07:44

I think it puts everything very nicely into perspective: here's a once in a generation road talent, not quite able to do what two mediocre and one decent road talents have managed to accomplish with absolute domination.
User avatar The Hegelian
Member
 
Posts: 856
Joined: 06 Jul 2014 09:18

Re:

03 Sep 2018 09:45

The Hegelian wrote:I think it puts everything very nicely into perspective: here's a once in a generation road talent, not quite able to do what two mediocre and one decent road talents have managed to accomplish with absolute domination.


the "fear" or the "prevision" of Kwiato winning or podiuming the Vuelta were from the non-Sky fans.
he did NOT prepare the Vuelta as Froome or THoms did with the Tour. he raced the TOur as a gregario and kept racing and won Poland. and now he´ll go for stages at the Vuelta
when he goes as a captain or co-captain at a GT he will do better.

the most recent decent road talent for Sky (Thomas) took years to become what he is. and went full on for this year´s Tour. he didnt ride as a gregario in previous races or over raced before the Tour.
pastronef
Senior Member
 
Posts: 4,357
Joined: 19 Aug 2011 08:25
Location: Italia

Re: Sky

03 Sep 2018 09:46

pastronef
Senior Member
 
Posts: 4,357
Joined: 19 Aug 2011 08:25
Location: Italia

Re: Sky

03 Sep 2018 12:45



Slightly unusual article, with a couple of interesting points. But this was staggering:

"Froome’s AAF for Salbutamol was a handy construct, but only a moron would believe he set out to cheat anti-doping during a Vuelta he was only ever going to win."

Froome can only win because he dopes. If Sykes serious believes that Froome's clean, and that the sport in general is clean, then he's utterly delusional, and must watch cycling through the cracks between his fingers.
Mamil
Junior Member
 
Posts: 109
Joined: 11 Jan 2018 11:24

Re: Sky

03 Sep 2018 13:10



What a brilliant article, one of the best pieces of cycling journalism i've read in a long time (imho)
brownbobby
Member
 
Posts: 898
Joined: 27 Sep 2017 07:14

Re: Sky

03 Sep 2018 19:12

Mamil wrote:


Slightly unusual article, with a couple of interesting points. But this was staggering:

"Froome’s AAF for Salbutamol was a handy construct, but only a moron would believe he set out to cheat anti-doping during a Vuelta he was only ever going to win."

Froome can only win because he dopes. If Sykes serious believes that Froome's clean, and that the sport in general is clean, then he's utterly delusional, and must watch cycling through the cracks between his fingers.

but at the same time, if Froome is doping and the whole sport is doping whats the beef with sky and froome then??
rick james
Senior Member
 
Posts: 4,447
Joined: 02 Sep 2014 13:21
Location: Ecosse

Re: Sky

03 Sep 2018 19:13

JosephK wrote:
JosephK wrote:Kwiatkowski :lol:

Gonna get his transformation on.


OK, so I am proven wrong on this (Stage 9). For Kwia, not British enough for Sky?

there biggest star is African
rick james
Senior Member
 
Posts: 4,447
Joined: 02 Sep 2014 13:21
Location: Ecosse

Re: Sky

03 Sep 2018 19:15

brownbobby wrote:


What a brilliant article, one of the best pieces of cycling journalism i've read in a long time (imho)


:D :D :D

Froome?..."a 21st centruy merckx"

as Tucker might say.... we're through the looking glass

merckx, to paraphrase the authour was 'at least the authour of his own fortune'...

do you really want me to list Merckx's results to the age Froome was when he podium-ed in the Vuelta in '11 against which we can pitch the.........er.........anatomic jock race???

go on ask me to..................................... :razz:

"a 21st Merckx" :D

herbie hancock...sorry, sykes...a journalistic titan
gillan1969
Member
 
Posts: 1,502
Joined: 12 Aug 2009 12:25

Re: Sky

03 Sep 2018 19:17

rick james wrote:
Mamil wrote:


Slightly unusual article, with a couple of interesting points. But this was staggering:

"Froome’s AAF for Salbutamol was a handy construct, but only a moron would believe he set out to cheat anti-doping during a Vuelta he was only ever going to win."

Froome can only win because he dopes. If Sykes serious believes that Froome's clean, and that the sport in general is clean, then he's utterly delusional, and must watch cycling through the cracks between his fingers.

but at the same time, if Froome is doping and the whole sport is doping whats the beef with sky and froome then??


Froome spindles about like a 'rong 'un :lol:
gillan1969
Member
 
Posts: 1,502
Joined: 12 Aug 2009 12:25

PreviousNext

Return to The Clinic

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 22 guests

Back to top