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The Clinic is the only place on Cyclingnews where you can discuss doping-related issues. Ask questions, discuss positives or improvements to procedures.

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Re: Sky

03 Sep 2018 20:00


This is literally unreadable? Thought it was just the introduction but it just goes on and on with the fancy words and metaphors and parallels and rhetorical questions.
User avatar LaFlorecita
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Re: Sky

03 Sep 2018 20:29

rick james wrote:but at the same time, if Froome is doping and the whole sport is doping whats the beef with sky and froome then??


That's a different discussion. A perfectly valid one, but not part of the author's perspectives in this case.
Mamil
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Re: Sky

04 Sep 2018 15:01

Mamil wrote:


Slightly unusual article, with a couple of interesting points. But this was staggering:

"Froome’s AAF for Salbutamol was a handy construct, but only a moron would believe he set out to cheat anti-doping during a Vuelta he was only ever going to win."

Froome can only win because he dopes. If Sykes serious believes that Froome's clean, and that the sport in general is clean, then he's utterly delusional, and must watch cycling through the cracks between his fingers.


That's an incredibly naive statement based on the history of cycling, and professional sport in general. Many big names that have been caught cheated anti-doping and were only brought down when law-enforcement and journalists took up the baton.
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User avatar King Boonen
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Re: Sky

04 Sep 2018 15:13

LaFlorecita wrote:

This is literally unreadable? Thought it was just the introduction but it just goes on and on with the fancy words and metaphors and parallels and rhetorical questions.
Yeah, WTF is "Herbie Sykes", this is just terrible. I mean, it's Rapha, which is like a deliberately pretentious brand, but come on, this guy cannot write
ClassicomanoLuigi
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07 Sep 2018 07:49

Looking at how Movi and MS are battling about who will work/not work on the front, wanting to save their teams as long as possible, man has to wonder how is possible for one team to control whole Grand Tour, from day 1 to day 21!?
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Re:

07 Sep 2018 08:19

Blanco wrote:Looking at how Movi and MS are battling about who will work/not work on the front, wanting to save their teams as long as possible, man has to wonder how is possible for one team to control whole Grand Tour, from day 1 to day 21!?

is the answer asthma treatment?
rick james
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Re: Re:

07 Sep 2018 09:30

rick james wrote:
Blanco wrote:Looking at how Movi and MS are battling about who will work/not work on the front, wanting to save their teams as long as possible, man has to wonder how is possible for one team to control whole Grand Tour, from day 1 to day 21!?

is the answer asthma treatment?


It could be.. :D
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Re: Sky

07 Sep 2018 20:13

I see Poels has learnt the 'Dawg' head Bob marginal gain. 1.5km to go on Whinlatter today he was well back and looking on deaths door. Takes the stage.
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Re:

07 Sep 2018 23:12

Blanco wrote:Looking at how Movi and MS are battling about who will work/not work on the front, wanting to save their teams as long as possible, man has to wonder how is possible for one team to control whole Grand Tour, from day 1 to day 21!?

It's down to who the teams select. The Vuelta selections seem to be a bit more random. Jack Haig said that the Mitchelton squad at the Giro had Bewley and Tuft who could ride on the front for ages while the Vuelta team had no equivalents.

Sky select their teams (at the Tour) in the expectation of leading and controlling. At the Vuelta they haven't and have not controlled.
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Re: Sky

08 Sep 2018 06:37

MartinGT wrote:I see Poels has learnt the 'Dawg' head Bob marginal gain. 1.5km to go on Whinlatter today he was well back and looking on deaths door. Takes the stage.

managing your efforts...who knew such secrets
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Re: Re:

08 Sep 2018 06:38

Parker wrote:
Blanco wrote:Looking at how Movi and MS are battling about who will work/not work on the front, wanting to save their teams as long as possible, man has to wonder how is possible for one team to control whole Grand Tour, from day 1 to day 21!?

It's down to who the teams select. The Vuelta selections seem to be a bit more random. Jack Haig said that the Mitchelton squad at the Giro had Bewley and Tuft who could ride on the front for ages while the Vuelta team had no equivalents.

Sky select their teams (at the Tour) in the expectation of leading and controlling. At the Vuelta they haven't and have not controlled.


I remember Mitchelton squad at the Giro, they were dead way before the end. Also look at Movistar's squad at this Vuelta, at least on par with their Tour squad, but they can not control things either even with the Vuelta squads significantly weaker than the Tour ones.
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Re: Sky

08 Sep 2018 08:31

rick james wrote:
MartinGT wrote:I see Poels has learnt the 'Dawg' head Bob marginal gain. 1.5km to go on Whinlatter today he was well back and looking on deaths door. Takes the stage.

managing your efforts...who knew such secrets


From getting dropped with the pace QS put in then even struggling to hold Davies and Pidcocks wheel. Aye that's managing
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08 Sep 2018 10:10

Oh and this being a 2km climb at most and not a 20-30km alpine climb. So aye managing an effort on a long climb I understand but this?
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Re:

08 Sep 2018 10:57

MartinGT wrote:Oh and this being a 2km climb at most and not a 20-30km alpine climb. So aye managing an effort on a long climb I understand but this?

So what are suggesting happened? Do you think he doped half way up the climb?

Have you ever heard of a race called Fleche Wallonne? It would really confuse you.
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Re: Re:

08 Sep 2018 20:49

Parker wrote:
MartinGT wrote:Oh and this being a 2km climb at most and not a 20-30km alpine climb. So aye managing an effort on a long climb I understand but this?

So what are suggesting happened? Do you think he doped half way up the climb?

Have you ever heard of a race called Fleche Wallonne? It would really confuse you.


Yes, Dan Martin has never won it because he's always positioned like crap.

Poels probably used an engine, that guy has a very shady reputation ever since he started riding for Vacansoleil.
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Re:

08 Sep 2018 21:26

Blanco wrote:Looking at how Movi and MS are battling about who will work/not work on the front, wanting to save their teams as long as possible, man has to wonder how is possible for one team to control whole Grand Tour, from day 1 to day 21!?


No Kiryienka, Rowe, Moscon, Castroviejo, Knees, Stannard types.
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Re: Re:

08 Sep 2018 22:20

El Pistolero wrote:
Parker wrote:
MartinGT wrote:Oh and this being a 2km climb at most and not a 20-30km alpine climb. So aye managing an effort on a long climb I understand but this?

So what are suggesting happened? Do you think he doped half way up the climb?

Have you ever heard of a race called Fleche Wallonne? It would really confuse you.


Yes, Dan Martin has never won it because he's always positioned like crap.

Poels probably used an engine, that guy has a very shady reputation ever since he started riding for Vacansoleil.



he probably didn't but hey ho!!!!!
rick james
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Re: Sky

08 Sep 2018 22:21

MartinGT wrote:
rick james wrote:
MartinGT wrote:I see Poels has learnt the 'Dawg' head Bob marginal gain. 1.5km to go on Whinlatter today he was well back and looking on deaths door. Takes the stage.

managing your efforts...who knew such secrets


From getting dropped with the pace QS put in then even struggling to hold Davies and Pidcocks wheel. Aye that's managing

well aye, he managed his effort and won the stage...FFS
rick james
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Re: Re:

08 Sep 2018 23:50

MatParker117 wrote:
Blanco wrote:Looking at how Movi and MS are battling about who will work/not work on the front, wanting to save their teams as long as possible, man has to wonder how is possible for one team to control whole Grand Tour, from day 1 to day 21!?


No Kiryienka, Rowe, Moscon, Castroviejo, Knees, Stannard types.

I don't think it's that they don't have those types, they just don't have enough to string it out day after day. Oliveira, Amador and Erviti aren't a bad trio to have in terms of that kind of skillset. Certainly shouldn't be any worse than at least Rowe, Knees or Stannard, and I'd say Amador is a good match for Kiryienka at this point in the Belarusian's career, though, like Szmyd before him, his reputation is such that it discourages attacks even if you could get away from the speed he's tapping out. It's not like Luke Rowe or Christian Knees are some kind of fearsome domestiquing superpower even if Rowe has led the péloton up some huge climbs in the Tour - it's no different to when Edvald Boasson Hagen was doing it, or Grégory Rast led the bunch over the Tourmalet in 2009. The gap is the Moscons and Kwiatkowskis, guys who are huge powers on the flat and still breathing through their noses while blocking the big attacks in the mountains too, who can control it between the mountains in the valleys meaning the team can afford to drill the mountains early and not worry about losing rouleurs. That's the area Movistar and Mitchelton-Scott lack compared to Sky. Movistar have plenty of mountain help but they lost a lot in that middle ground - they need riders to play the role Rubén Plaza, Jesús Herrada or the Izagirre brothers did.
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Re: Re:

09 Sep 2018 00:03

Libertine Seguros wrote:
MatParker117 wrote:
Blanco wrote:Looking at how Movi and MS are battling about who will work/not work on the front, wanting to save their teams as long as possible, man has to wonder how is possible for one team to control whole Grand Tour, from day 1 to day 21!?


No Kiryienka, Rowe, Moscon, Castroviejo, Knees, Stannard types.

I don't think it's that they don't have those types, they just don't have enough to string it out day after day. Oliveira, Amador and Erviti aren't a bad trio to have in terms of that kind of skillset. Certainly shouldn't be any worse than at least Rowe, Knees or Stannard, and I'd say Amador is a good match for Kiryienka at this point in the Belarusian's career, though, like Szmyd before him, his reputation is such that it discourages attacks even if you could get away from the speed he's tapping out. It's not like Luke Rowe or Christian Knees are some kind of fearsome domestiquing superpower even if Rowe has led the péloton up some huge climbs in the Tour - it's no different to when Edvald Boasson Hagen was doing it, or Grégory Rast led the bunch over the Tourmalet in 2009. The gap is the Moscons and Kwiatkowskis, guys who are huge powers on the flat and still breathing through their noses while blocking the big attacks in the mountains too, who can control it between the mountains in the valleys meaning the team can afford to drill the mountains early and not worry about losing rouleurs. That's the area Movistar and Mitchelton-Scott lack compared to Sky. Movistar have plenty of mountain help but they lost a lot in that middle ground - they need riders to play the role Rubén Plaza, Jesús Herrada or the Izagirre brothers did.


Don't disagree with any of that. The simple, brutal truth is, money talks. My football team is Hearts, we may, now and again, beat Rangers or Celtic but never over a whole season. (Altho we are sitting pretty at the top just now:))
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