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Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

The Clinic is the only place on Cyclingnews where you can discuss doping-related issues. Ask questions, discuss positives or improvements to procedures.

Moderators: Eshnar, King Boonen, Red Rick, Pricey_sky

02 Jan 2019 10:27

my mate adam knows......................passion always trumbs bs marginal games

....................results prove it..............
User avatar ebandit
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Re: Re:

02 Jan 2019 11:09



Seems Blythe picked the wrong team. Kevin De Weert in search of marginal gains story:

https://plus.lesoir.be/196108/article/2018-12-17/lotto-soudal-veut-ameliorer-ses-competences
samhocking
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06 Feb 2019 21:36

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/feb/06/team-sky-doctor-richard-freeman-medical-tribunal-delayed
Geraint Thomas says cycling now ‘one of the cleanest sports around’


Ok, the Mods can close down the Clinic! G has spoken.
Anything about Fran Millar goes in The Clinic.
User avatar Robert5091
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Re:

06 Feb 2019 21:37

Robert5091 wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/feb/06/team-sky-doctor-richard-freeman-medical-tribunal-delayed
Geraint Thomas says cycling now ‘one of the cleanest sports around’


Ok, the Mods can close down the Clinic! G has spoken.



LOL, I think the new NFL thread just proved that the clinic needs to stay open and that other sports have a lot more doping going on than cycling likely does. :lol: :lol:
User avatar Koronin
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08 Feb 2019 01:51

This Freeman thing is pretty big. If he's gets suspended then we have hard, legal, substantive and irrefutable evidence of doping practices at BS and Sky.

That has always been the retort by the defenders: "Show me the actual evidence."

Well, be careful what you wish for!

How many bullets have been dodged so far? Sooner or later, one will get through, and I reckon this will be the one.
User avatar The Hegelian
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Re:

08 Feb 2019 07:40

The Hegelian wrote:This Freeman thing is pretty big. If he's gets suspended then we have hard, legal, substantive and irrefutable evidence of doping practices at BS and Sky.

That has always been the retort by the defenders: "Show me the actual evidence."

Well, be careful what you wish for!

How many bullets have been dodged so far? Sooner or later, one will get through, and I reckon this will be the one.


He could get suspended for a manner of things, it doesnt mean that it HARD evidence of Sky doping IMO.
User avatar MartinGT
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08 Feb 2019 07:44

The problem is that the doc can claim any dodgy substances were for staff not riders and as there are no records ... The only certain thing he'll get done for is for bad record keeping.
Anything about Fran Millar goes in The Clinic.
User avatar Robert5091
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Re: Re:

08 Feb 2019 10:22

MartinGT wrote:
The Hegelian wrote:This Freeman thing is pretty big. If he's gets suspended then we have hard, legal, substantive and irrefutable evidence of doping practices at BS and Sky.

That has always been the retort by the defenders: "Show me the actual evidence."

Well, be careful what you wish for!

How many bullets have been dodged so far? Sooner or later, one will get through, and I reckon this will be the one.


He could get suspended for a manner of things, it doesnt mean that it HARD evidence of Sky doping IMO.


Lies, it’s doping, it’s always doping
rick james
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08 Feb 2019 22:58

It's loads of testosterone covertly delivered to the head cycling doctor in the bloody main British Cycling velodrome!

Does anyone seriously think it is some weird tin-foil-hat conspiracy to make an inference about doping?? Bearing in mind of course, the British Parliament itself initiated this, and it is being pursued by the medical board.

You have to be rather tin-foil-hat to infer otherwise.
User avatar The Hegelian
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Re:

09 Feb 2019 06:55

The Hegelian wrote:It's loads of testosterone covertly delivered to the head cycling doctor in the bloody main British Cycling velodrome!

Does anyone seriously think it is some weird tin-foil-hat conspiracy to make an inference about doping?? Bearing in mind of course, the British Parliament itself initiated this, and it is being pursued by the medical board.

You have to be rather tin-foil-hat to infer otherwise.


Except the reality is that unless an athlete is silly enough to dob themselves in for doping, then the best scenario for UKAD is the provision where an athlete support person commits an anti-doping violation for having banned substances at their premises.
yaco
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09 Feb 2019 09:59

The Hegelian wrote:It's loads of testosterone covertly delivered to the head cycling doctor in the bloody main British Cycling velodrome!

Does anyone seriously think it is some weird tin-foil-hat conspiracy to make an inference about doping?? Bearing in mind of course, the British Parliament itself initiated this, and it is being pursued by the medical board.

You have to be rather tin-foil-hat to infer otherwise.


i heard it was one delivery of 40 patches.........do you know more?

does anyone seriously think...............that team sky with all their resources would embark on a

doping programme with testo delivered to their own front door?
User avatar ebandit
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09 Feb 2019 10:04

Who says it was a Team Sky programme? It might have been a Richard Freeman programme.

That is the thing about doping, even if a given team's management are completely ethical (Not Sky :lol: ) there isn't a lot they can do if one cyclist decides to go and dope.

We have to be careful drawing conclusions, after all, if the reports about other Sky doctors trying to stop Freeman doping....ahem, I mean treating...Wiggins are true it would suggest that some or most of them were acting ethically.
(Warning: Posts may contain traces of irony)
User avatar macbindle
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09 Feb 2019 12:55

Anything about Fran Millar goes in The Clinic.
User avatar Robert5091
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Re:

09 Feb 2019 13:47

Have you read Inside Team Sky. Farrell is a cheerleader.
User avatar fmk_RoI
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Re: Re:

09 Feb 2019 16:54

fmk_RoI wrote:
Have you read Inside Team Sky. Farrell is a cheerleader.


Even so, it would be interesting to know why he stopped Freeman getting a TUE for Wiggins.
Anything about Fran Millar goes in The Clinic.
User avatar Robert5091
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Re: Re:

09 Feb 2019 17:35

Robert5091 wrote:
fmk_RoI wrote:
Have you read Inside Team Sky. Farrell is a cheerleader.


Even so, it would be interesting to know why he stopped Freeman getting a TUE for Wiggins.
Because that was their stated policy. Google it, I think you'll find a Kimmage column on it.
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09 Feb 2019 23:20

Do you mean it was Sky's policy not to abuse the TUE system?

edit - Kimmage has been trying to talk to Farrell - https://cyclingtips.com/2017/03/interview-paul-kimmage-team-skys-charade-exposed/ - Sky lawyers standing maybe in the way. :)
Anything about Fran Millar goes in The Clinic.
User avatar Robert5091
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Re:

09 Feb 2019 23:29

macbindle wrote:Who says it was a Team Sky programme? It might have been a Richard Freeman programme.

That is the thing about doping, even if a given team's management are completely ethical (Not Sky :lol: ) there isn't a lot they can do if one cyclist decides to go and dope.

We have to be careful drawing conclusions, after all, if the reports about other Sky doctors trying to stop Freeman doping....ahem, I mean treating...Wiggins are true it would suggest that some or most of them were acting ethically.


The point is this:
1. Go read the earlier - first 500?- posts in this thread. Every inference is basically speculative; debates are often about watts, climbing times, comparisons with US Postal etc.
2. Now: We've had the Wiggins Tue leak, Froome actually popped + Sky doctor busted with testosterone which he tried to cover up. We can have debates about all of this, but we're clearly no longer in the realm of speculative reasoning. We're in the realm of law, institution, parliament and actual allegations of doping.

It is also hardly unreasonable to make this inference: those are the things that have emerged in actuality. How many things are likely to have occurred that have not (and maybe never will) emerge?
User avatar The Hegelian
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10 Feb 2019 07:20

My post was a reply. You need to read it in that context.
(Warning: Posts may contain traces of irony)
User avatar macbindle
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Re: Re:

10 Feb 2019 10:50

The Hegelian wrote:
macbindle wrote:Who says it was a Team Sky programme? It might have been a Richard Freeman programme.

That is the thing about doping, even if a given team's management are completely ethical (Not Sky :lol: ) there isn't a lot they can do if one cyclist decides to go and dope.

We have to be careful drawing conclusions, after all, if the reports about other Sky doctors trying to stop Freeman doping....ahem, I mean treating...Wiggins are true it would suggest that some or most of them were acting ethically.


The point is this:
1. Go read the earlier - first 500?- posts in this thread. Every inference is basically speculative; debates are often about watts, climbing times, comparisons with US Postal etc.
2. Now: We've had the Wiggins Tue leak, Froome actually popped + Sky doctor busted with testosterone which he tried to cover up. We can have debates about all of this, but we're clearly no longer in the realm of speculative reasoning. We're in the realm of law, institution, parliament and actual allegations of doping.

It is also hardly unreasonable to make this inference: those are the things that have emerged in actuality. How many things are likely to have occurred that have not (and maybe never will) emerge?


what we have is possibility v reality

it's possible that team sky were doping...........even likely but it's not a given

why waste time with TUEs if the doping is already covered?

you're hoping that 'the sky doctor was busted with testo' but for a bust to occur they will have

to have been used..........................surely?

da dwag may have got carried away with his puffing but in hindsight it never was much of a pop
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