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Top Ten excuses Sky will use to fend off doping accusations

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29 Jul 2015 14:16

One that hasn't been mentioned that I have remembered is Froome and Brailsford claiming that CF was always attacking pre 2011 and that once Sky got his tactics right for him, he was able to use that energy constructively. ie, he always had the power, was just wasting it in breakaways every day for 4 years.

Does anyone actually remember Froome attacking every stage of every race like he claims to? I mean guys like Pirazi, Voeckler, Hoogerland even when they don't win people remember yes they do go into breaks. Did anyone have that impression of Froome pre 2011. A guy who was always on the attack every day until he wasted all his energy and was at best top 30 on the stage. Can anyone recall more than a handful of examples from his 200+ days of racing pre September 2011 where he even made the breakaway?
User avatar The Hitch
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Re:

29 Jul 2015 14:17

Rob27172 wrote:1. Find weird disease no one has heard of
2. Play on the publics lack of knowledge about cycling in the uk and pretend all cyclists are way behind other sports = marginal gains
3. Publicize your zero tolerance policy
4 Hire a shed load of dodgy riders, dodgy DS staff, Dodgy doctors.
5. Get the press in your pocket using Murdoch empire
6. Get UCI in your pocket by ensuring they cant afford to go up against you in court
7. Get ASO in your pocket by making sure they cant afford to lose another leader of the TDF and destroy their own race
8. Get a reporter in your pocket to write **** about how wonderful the team is
9. Find a number of good track riders who you have had on the gear for years in the track program and bring them onto the road team
10. Get a lead in to the latest drugs to make sure you are ahead of the curve
11. Build a team based upon a nationalist program with massive sponsorship to make sure you have more money and more clout than anyone else.
12. Complain about not enough testing
13. proclaim how many hundreds of tests you have passed and never tested positive
14. Proclaim how immaculate your preperation for the tour is compared to everyone else.
15. Make a program about how your star rider has a physiology that is different to everyone else
16. Acquire TUE's for any potential issue that might be found out - whether they were in time or backdated
17. Ride climbs quicker than proven dopers and still proclaim you are clean
18. Watch as ex team mates get busted for drugs and proclaim dismay at how they fell of the right road after leaving the team

Oh now which team am I describing - is it sky or USPS I am confused as it appears that the lists would be identical

And yet still there are people out there that believe history isn't repeating itself and a nation where cycling is a minority sport with no infrastructure and roads that are deadly for cyclists in any large number, can suddenly produce world class cyclists that can destroy cycling powerhouses from other parts of the world.- Oh am i talking about the USA or UK; again I am confused !!!


And fantastic post of course. Hope to see more of this poster.
User avatar The Hitch
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29 Jul 2015 14:21

Gordonstoun is invoked as parody. muscular christianity is similar, its all meant in jest.

hence, why i invoked corgies.


it...
is
not

serious
"Hitler … didn't even sink to using chemical weapons."
User avatar blackcat
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Re: Re:

29 Jul 2015 14:29

djpbaltimore wrote:
Rob27172 wrote:1. Find weird disease no one has heard of
2. Play on the publics lack of knowledge about cycling in the uk and pretend all cyclists are way behind other sports = marginal gains
3. Publicize your zero tolerance policy
4 Hire a shed load of dodgy riders, dodgy DS staff, Dodgy doctors.
5. Get the press in your pocket using Murdoch empire
6. Get UCI in your pocket by ensuring they cant afford to go up against you in court
7. Get ASO in your pocket by making sure they cant afford to lose another leader of the TDF and destroy their own race
8. Get a reporter in your pocket to write **** about how wonderful the team is
9. Find a number of good track riders who you have had on the gear for years in the track program and bring them onto the road team
10. Get a lead in to the latest drugs to make sure you are ahead of the curve
11. Build a team based upon a nationalist program with massive sponsorship to make sure you have more money and more clout than anyone else.
12. Complain about not enough testing
13. proclaim how many hundreds of tests you have passed and never tested positive
14. Proclaim how immaculate your preperation for the tour is compared to everyone else.
15. Make a program about how your star rider has a physiology that is different to everyone else
16. Acquire TUE's for any potential issue that might be found out - whether they were in time or backdated
17. Ride climbs quicker than proven dopers and still proclaim you are clean
18. Watch as ex team mates get busted for drugs and proclaim dismay at how they fell of the right road after leaving the team

Oh now which team am I describing - is it sky or USPS I am confused as it appears that the lists would be identical

And yet still there are people out there that believe history isn't repeating itself and a nation where cycling is a minority sport with no infrastructure and roads that are deadly for cyclists in any large number, can suddenly produce world class cyclists that can destroy cycling powerhouses from other parts of the world.- Oh am i talking about the USA or UK; again I am confused !!!


I think your analogy with the USA is totally exaggerated.

1) What weird disease are you talking about, Testicular Cancer? Pretty sure that has been heard of by most people.
10) I don't think Lance had the latest and greatest drugs. He wasn't using unicorn blood, just better logistics and a better safety net of protection.
18) That happened with USPS, but the UCI doesn't look ready to suspend anybody other than a few small fries nowadays.

The roads in the USA are really good for riding in many parts of the country. Calling them deadly is laughable.


Your comment on 10 is debatable. I don't think we know the full truth of what he was up to. Certainly they (USPS) used Actovegin, and there's evidence that he (LA) dabbled / considered Aicar. I wouldn't be at all surprised if he was trying some real cutting edge stuff with Ferrari.

Also 18 - I think only Mick R has failed a drugs test since leaving Sky, although that was down to chinese meat ...
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Re: Re:

29 Jul 2015 14:41

Rob27172 wrote:
Unfortunately you yet again show your lack of understanding and your Pop TV knowledge base as you think the top of the country is ETON, Harrow and Gordonstoun.
There are many more private schools and far better ones as well.

Alex Dowsett went to a very nice private Prep school
Laura Trott - Turnford private school in cheshunt
Victoria williamson - Norwich high school for girls (private independent school)
Chris Hoy - George watsons college (private school in scotland)
Nicholas roche - blackrock college (private school)
Phillip Anderson - trinity private school
Phillip Hindes - Private sports school in germany

There are many others that went to grammar schools and other schools as well
Although on the continent there is a large spread of the population in sport in the UK the lack of funding and a lack of assistance it means that the wealthier families are always going to be at an advantage as they are able to drive their children to Manchester every weekend to ride their bikes with the GB squad - and anyone who has been involved in the elite cycling scene in the uk in the last 15 years will tell you that unless you are in manchester or can get there regularly then you will never make it into the team

Maybe you could stop posting on areas of the UK cycling scene you obviously know nothing about.


So you are trying to make a point about British cycling recruiting mainly from the upper class, and to support it you post about Nicholas Roche (Irish), Phil Anderson (Australian...Trinity grammar, which is in Melbourne)

Not an auspicious start to your post.

I'm sorry, but you are just plain wrong. Whilst parental support matters for any sporting success, to claim that professional cycling in the UK is the preserve of the wealthy upper classes is just drivel, frankly. I'm not going to debate the point further with you.
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Re:

29 Jul 2015 14:45

The Hitch wrote:One that hasn't been mentioned that I have remembered is Froome and Brailsford claiming that CF was always attacking pre 2011 and that once Sky got his tactics right for him, he was able to use that energy constructively. ie, he always had the power, was just wasting it in breakaways every day for 4 years.

Does anyone actually remember Froome attacking every stage of every race like he claims to? I mean guys like Pirazi, Voeckler, Hoogerland even when they don't win people remember yes they do go into breaks. Did anyone have that impression of Froome pre 2011. A guy who was always on the attack every day until he wasted all his energy and was at best top 30 on the stage. Can anyone recall more than a handful of examples from his 200+ days of racing pre September 2011 where he even made the breakaway?


It's nonsense and it is barely worth talking about. Froome didn't figure anywhere. A minor domestique.
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Re: Re:

29 Jul 2015 14:45

TheSpud wrote:Your comment on 10 is debatable. I don't think we know the full truth of what he was up to. Certainly they (USPS) used Actovegin, and there's evidence that he (LA) dabbled / considered Aicar. I wouldn't be at all surprised if he was trying some real cutting edge stuff with Ferrari.

Also 18 - I think only Mick R has failed a drugs test since leaving Sky, although that was down to chinese meat ...


True, all conclusions are mostly conjecture due to the veil of secrecy surrounding the topic and those comments represent only my personal opinions. Considering he won 7 TDFs, Lance's doping strategy may have became more boutique as the years progressed. I doubt he won in 1999 with anything 'experimental' but YMMV.
djpbaltimore
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Re:

29 Jul 2015 14:47

blackcat wrote:Gordonstoun is invoked as parody. muscular christianity is similar, its all meant in jest.

hence, why i invoked corgies.


it...
is
not

serious


Well, according to Rob27172 you might be right. Who knows how Cav manages in a sprint without his butler on hand, what.

:D
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hyperbole

29 Jul 2015 14:49

The Hitch wrote:
Does anyone actually remember Froome attacking every stage of every race like he claims to?


hitch why switch the goalposts making a false claim? in the whole history of cycling

has a rider ever attacked every stage of every race?

Mark L
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29 Jul 2015 15:00

The tittle should be, top ten inventions haters of cycling has done to try to say SKy is doping.

That would be really funny and it will be funny in the future

SKy never has put any excuses becouse they has anything strange to explain.

Maybe they have sometimes explain how they do to improve performance.
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Re: Re:

29 Jul 2015 15:06

TheSpud wrote:Also 18 - I think only Mick R has failed a drugs test since leaving Sky, although that was down to chinese meat ...


mmmm sino sausage. lip smacking
"Hitler … didn't even sink to using chemical weapons."
User avatar blackcat
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Re: Re:

29 Jul 2015 17:13

TheSpud wrote:
djpbaltimore wrote:
Rob27172 wrote:1. Find weird disease no one has heard of
2. Play on the publics lack of knowledge about cycling in the uk and pretend all cyclists are way behind other sports = marginal gains
3. Publicize your zero tolerance policy
4 Hire a shed load of dodgy riders, dodgy DS staff, Dodgy doctors.
5. Get the press in your pocket using Murdoch empire
6. Get UCI in your pocket by ensuring they cant afford to go up against you in court
7. Get ASO in your pocket by making sure they cant afford to lose another leader of the TDF and destroy their own race
8. Get a reporter in your pocket to write **** about how wonderful the team is
9. Find a number of good track riders who you have had on the gear for years in the track program and bring them onto the road team
10. Get a lead in to the latest drugs to make sure you are ahead of the curve
11. Build a team based upon a nationalist program with massive sponsorship to make sure you have more money and more clout than anyone else.
12. Complain about not enough testing
13. proclaim how many hundreds of tests you have passed and never tested positive
14. Proclaim how immaculate your preperation for the tour is compared to everyone else.
15. Make a program about how your star rider has a physiology that is different to everyone else
16. Acquire TUE's for any potential issue that might be found out - whether they were in time or backdated
17. Ride climbs quicker than proven dopers and still proclaim you are clean
18. Watch as ex team mates get busted for drugs and proclaim dismay at how they fell of the right road after leaving the team

Oh now which team am I describing - is it sky or USPS I am confused as it appears that the lists would be identical

And yet still there are people out there that believe history isn't repeating itself and a nation where cycling is a minority sport with no infrastructure and roads that are deadly for cyclists in any large number, can suddenly produce world class cyclists that can destroy cycling powerhouses from other parts of the world.- Oh am i talking about the USA or UK; again I am confused !!!


I think your analogy with the USA is totally exaggerated.

1) What weird disease are you talking about, Testicular Cancer? Pretty sure that has been heard of by most people.
10) I don't think Lance had the latest and greatest drugs. He wasn't using unicorn blood, just better logistics and a better safety net of protection.
18) That happened with USPS, but the UCI doesn't look ready to suspend anybody other than a few small fries nowadays.

The roads in the USA are really good for riding in many parts of the country. Calling them deadly is laughable.


Your comment on 10 is debatable. I don't think we know the full truth of what he was up to. Certainly they (USPS) used Actovegin, and there's evidence that he (LA) dabbled / considered Aicar. I wouldn't be at all surprised if he was trying some real cutting edge stuff with Ferrari.

Also 18 - I think only Mick R has failed a drugs test since leaving Sky, although that was down to chinese meat ...


tsk tsk spudóg.

On June 30 2015, Davide Appollonio gave an adverse analytical finding for EPO, on June 14 – two weeks after completing the Giro d'Italia, and was provisionally suspended.

Must've forgot where he put his marginal gains....... :rolleyes:
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Re:

29 Jul 2015 21:17

The Hitch wrote:One that hasn't been mentioned that I have remembered is Froome and Brailsford claiming that CF was always attacking pre 2011 and that once Sky got his tactics right for him, he was able to use that energy constructively. ie, he always had the power, was just wasting it in breakaways every day for 4 years.

Does anyone actually remember Froome attacking every stage of every race like he claims to? I mean guys like Pirazi, Voeckler, Hoogerland even when they don't win people remember yes they do go into breaks. Did anyone have that impression of Froome pre 2011. A guy who was always on the attack every day until he wasted all his energy and was at best top 30 on the stage. Can anyone recall more than a handful of examples from his 200+ days of racing pre September 2011 where he even made the breakaway?

That sounds like Lance in his angry young days, according to It's Not About the Bike, not Froome.

Huge natural talent, rode like an idiot. Once he harnessed it he became the best ever. Yep, been done before.
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29 Jul 2015 22:02

Froome's short superstar leap was most unexpected. He responded really well to beetroot juice apparently.
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Re: hyperbole

30 Jul 2015 00:43

ebandit wrote:
The Hitch wrote:
Does anyone actually remember Froome attacking every stage of every race like he claims to?


hitch why switch the goalposts making a false claim? in the whole history of cycling

has a rider ever attacked every stage of every race?

Mark L


Err I didn't make anything up. Froome drops that line in his book a lot. Walsh has said it a lot of times as well.
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Re: Re:

30 Jul 2015 00:44

Saint Unix wrote:
The Hitch wrote:One that hasn't been mentioned that I have remembered is Froome and Brailsford claiming that CF was always attacking pre 2011 and that once Sky got his tactics right for him, he was able to use that energy constructively. ie, he always had the power, was just wasting it in breakaways every day for 4 years.

Does anyone actually remember Froome attacking every stage of every race like he claims to? I mean guys like Pirazi, Voeckler, Hoogerland even when they don't win people remember yes they do go into breaks. Did anyone have that impression of Froome pre 2011. A guy who was always on the attack every day until he wasted all his energy and was at best top 30 on the stage. Can anyone recall more than a handful of examples from his 200+ days of racing pre September 2011 where he even made the breakaway?

That sounds like Lance in his angry young days, according to It's Not About the Bike, not Froome.

Huge natural talent, rode like an idiot. Once he harnessed it he became the best ever. Yep, been done before.


Did Lance actually use that line too in - INATB?
User avatar The Hitch
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Re: Re:

30 Jul 2015 00:48

The Hitch wrote:
Saint Unix wrote:
The Hitch wrote:One that hasn't been mentioned that I have remembered is Froome and Brailsford claiming that CF was always attacking pre 2011 and that once Sky got his tactics right for him, he was able to use that energy constructively. ie, he always had the power, was just wasting it in breakaways every day for 4 years.

Does anyone actually remember Froome attacking every stage of every race like he claims to? I mean guys like Pirazi, Voeckler, Hoogerland even when they don't win people remember yes they do go into breaks. Did anyone have that impression of Froome pre 2011. A guy who was always on the attack every day until he wasted all his energy and was at best top 30 on the stage. Can anyone recall more than a handful of examples from his 200+ days of racing pre September 2011 where he even made the breakaway?

That sounds like Lance in his angry young days, according to It's Not About the Bike, not Froome.

Huge natural talent, rode like an idiot. Once he harnessed it he became the best ever. Yep, been done before.


Did Lance actually use that line too in - INATB?


Sort of, he admitted to being an aggressive, arrogant prick to other riders as much as attacking riding. He expected respect immediately as he was World Champ so young. He did get in breaks a bit IIRC, he won a couple of Tour stages, the WC and San Sebastian from breaks and picked up a second at Liege from a 2 up sprint.

The only big races I remember Froome in the break were one or two '08 Tour stages and that break in the '09 Giro.
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30 Jul 2015 01:14

In INATB he talks about riding entire races off the front when he first got into the national team as a junior. Probably a consequence of him kicking the asses of everyone at his local scene and thinking he could do it everywhere.

I went to Colorado Springs anyway [to train with the junior national team, after being denied time off by his school], and then to Moscow. At the Junior Worlds, I had no idea what I was doing, I was all raw energy with no concept of pacing or tactics. But I led for several laps anyway, before I faded, out of gas from attacking too early, Still, the U.S. federation officials were impressed, and the Russian coach told everybody I was the best young cyclist he had seen in years.


I had no idea what I was getting into [becoming a pro]. When I left home at 18, my idea of a race was to leap on and start pedaling. I was called "brash" in my early days, and the tag has followed me ever since, maybe deservedly. I was very young and had a lot to learn, and I said and did some things that maybe I shouldn't have, but I wasn't trying to be a jerk. I was just Texan. The "Toro de Texas," the Spanish press named me.

In my first big international race, I did everything my coach told me not to do. It was at the 1990 amateur World Championships in Utsunomiya, Japan, a 115-mile road race over a tough course with a long, hard climb.

...

Chris [Carmichael] gave me strict instructions: I was to hang back in the pack for much of the race and look for his signal before making any kind of move. It was too hot and the course too ardous to try to race in front into the headwind. The smart thing to do was to draft and conserve my energy.

"I want you to wait," Chris said. "I don't want to see you near the front, catching any wind."

I nodded, and moved to the start area. On the first lap, I did what he told me to and rode near the back. But then I couldn't help myself , I wanted to test my legs. I began to move up. On the second lap, I took the lead, and when I came by the checkpoint, I was up all by myself, 45 seconds up on the field. I streaked past Chris. As I went by, I glanced over at him. He had his arms spread wide, as if to say, "What are you doing?"

What was I doing? I was just going. It was a move that would become known as classic early Armstrong: a contrary and spectacularly ill-advised attack. I proceeded to go solo for the next three laps, and built a lead of about a minute and a half. I was feeling pretty good about myself, when the heat started to get to me. Next thing I knew, 30 guys came up and joined me. With half the race still to go, I was already suffering. I tried to keep riding at the front, but I didn't have enough left. Sapped by the heat and the climbs, I finished 11th.
Last edited by Saint Unix on 30 Jul 2015 12:19, edited 1 time in total.
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sa if

30 Jul 2015 08:51

The Hitch wrote:
ebandit wrote:
The Hitch wrote:
Does anyone actually remember Froome attacking every stage of every race like he claims to?


hitch why switch the goalposts making a false claim? in the whole history of cycling

has a rider ever attacked every stage of every race?

Mark L


Err I didn't make anything up. Froome drops that line in his book a lot. Walsh has said it a lot of times as well.


as if da dawg says......i attack in every stage of every race........right!

Mark L
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30 Jul 2015 12:06

O Symetric chain rings
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