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Froome Talk Only

The Clinic is the only place on Cyclingnews where you can discuss doping-related issues. Ask questions, discuss positives or improvements to procedures.

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Re: Re:

13 Feb 2018 18:27

Poursuivant wrote:
WheelofGear wrote:
WheelofGear wrote:
53*11 wrote:
WheelofGear wrote:Wonder if he is going to take any risk at Ruta del Sol? Would be stupid to go full retard on the MTF right now. If he was smart, he would lose intentionally to prove he is human and clean & make people forget about his doping case.

According to La Gazzetta dello Sport, Froome's salbutamol case is heading to UCI Anti-Doping Tribunal.


i think that is highly unlikely, dont you?!

It's still the best thing he can do right now.

Personally, I'd like to see another full retard in Andalucia.. but I really doubt it. It's worse than shooting yourself in the foot.


Because if he gets smashed you will get all the "lol Froome is no good without his inhaler" shouts.

He should ride for the win if he has the shape.


That is the other extreme. He should ride for a.. 4th place!
WheelofGear
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13 Feb 2018 21:43

Looks like CF's hit the nebulizer already in this Gazzetta photo taken in the Hotel
Image
User avatar TourOfSardinia
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13 Feb 2018 23:04

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/chris-froomes-salbutamol-case-reportedly-heading-to-uci-anti-doping-tribunal/
Can't wait to get this season started!!

Plan A - ADT hopefully short ban from Vuelta, Race Giro & Tour
Plan B - Bad outcome at ADT - appeal, appeal appeal. Race Giro & Tour - hope for ban over Winter 2018/2019

Whatever happens, let us hope that no "fan" takes matters into his own hands.
Salbutamol - Breakfast of Champions!
"Are you going to believe me or what you see with your own eyes?"
Choco Loco for all your doping tips!
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13 Feb 2018 23:20

Let's say he gets a ban at tribunal next month, and he immediately appeals to CAS, can he still ride?
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Re:

13 Feb 2018 23:33

Robert5091 wrote:http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/chris-froomes-salbutamol-case-reportedly-heading-to-uci-anti-doping-tribunal/
Can't wait to get this season started!!

Plan A - ADT hopefully short ban from Vuelta, Race Giro & Tour
Plan B - Bad outcome at ADT - appeal, appeal appeal. Race Giro & Tour - hope for ban over Winter 2018/2019

Whatever happens, let us hope that no "fan" takes matters into his own hands.


I hope we all can agree on that. I actually fear for his safety. No matter what you think about Froome, he doesn't deserve to get attacked by spectators.

That's why it's best to make a low-key debut at Ruta Del Sol. Although it's not a "high risk" race.
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Re:

13 Feb 2018 23:40

TourOfSardinia wrote:Looks like CF's hit the nebulizer already in this Gazzetta photo taken in the Hotel
Image


Not a great photo but he looks deathly there.
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Re:

13 Feb 2018 23:57

Poursuivant wrote:Let's say he gets a ban at tribunal next month, and he immediately appeals to CAS, can he still ride?
Froome will be banned from the day the Anti-Doping Tribunal judge signs his/her Judgment, it will take effect immediately. And then he seeks to have his ban reduced / overturned at CAS if he chooses to appeal. But he doesn't get to ride during appeal process
ClassicomanoLuigi
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14 Feb 2018 00:01

I'm not a Froome fan however it seems to me that the percentage of salbutamol in his urine is not affected by his hydration status.
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Re: Re:

14 Feb 2018 00:02

ontheroad wrote:
TourOfSardinia wrote:Looks like CF's hit the nebulizer already in this Gazzetta photo taken in the Hotel
Image


Not a great photo but he looks deathly there.



He and family were still in SA Saturday . a long flight for a young children, disrupted sleep for the parents
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Re: Re:

14 Feb 2018 00:08

ClassicomanoLuigi wrote:
Poursuivant wrote:Let's say he gets a ban at tribunal next month, and he immediately appeals to CAS, can he still ride?
Froome will be banned from the day the Anti-Doping Tribunal judge signs his/her Judgment, it will take effect immediately. And then he seeks to have his ban reduced / overturned at CAS if he chooses to appeal. But he doesn't get to ride during appeal process


Thanks
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Re: Froome Talk Only

14 Feb 2018 00:16

Mean time from appointment of judge to final decision is a little over three months, regardless of hearing (I didn’t include the Matzka case, as an outlier). My impression is that when the case drags out, the judge (on his/her discretion or at UCI’s request) is inclined not to hold a hearing, perhaps because s/he feels there is enough information from all the back-and-forth at that point. In any case, the result is that hearing or no hearing, cases on average take about as long to conclude once the judge has been appointed. Only one case other than Matzka took longer than four and a half months from the appointment of the judge.

It seems that the judge for Froome’s case was appointed in the beginning of February. So history indicates there’s a reasonable possibility that a decision will be reached before the Giro, particularly if it’s expedited for that purpose. It would be very unusual if a decision were not reached before the Tour.

Edit: Wrong again. I guess the proceedings are just being opened next week, which means the judge hasn't been appointed yet. So have to add 2-3 weeks to the time table I outlined.
Last edited by Merckx index on 14 Feb 2018 02:34, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Froome Talk Only

14 Feb 2018 00:19

brownbobby wrote:Does Froome himself have to get involved in/attend any part of the hearing...or is it all down to the Lawyers now leaving him free to race whenever he pleases?
Lloyd Mondory chose to skip the proceedings of the ADT despite having been given "every opportunity to explain the facts in his file and to present his argument". He didn't even try to defend himself. The result was: he got banned for 4 years, and fined 70 percent of his salary and cycling income for 2015
UCI c/ Monsieur Lloyd Mondory
__________________________________
Juge unique :
M. Julien Zylberstein

A titre liminaire, le Tribunal souligne que M. Mondory a été tenu informé du déroulement de
la procédure à chaque étape de celle-ci. Il s’est vu offrir toutes les occasions possibles de
s’exprimer sur les faits essentiels du dossier, de présenter son argumentation juridique, de
proposer des moyens de preuve et, plus généralement, de participer activement à la
procédure. Le Coureur a toutefois décidé et pris le risque de ne plus s’y intéresser à partir du 2 avril 2015...

M. Mondory, par son silence dans la procédure, n’a pas sollicité le bénéfice des dispositions permettant de faire état de sa situation financière ou du coût de la vie dans son lieu de résidence pour obtenir une réduction de l’amende. En l’absence de toute demande en ce sens, de la gravité de la violation (usage d’EPO), de l’expérience du Coureur et de l’inexistence d’élément susceptible de faire présumer d’une situation financière particulièrement délicate de l’intéressé, le Tribunal n’a d’autre choix que de faire application des dispositions en cause...
It would be in Froome's best interest to participate himself in the process. He doesn't necessarily have to appear in person, they can do hearings via videoconference
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Re: Froome Talk Only

14 Feb 2018 00:34

ClassicomanoLuigi wrote:
It would be in Froome's best interest to participate himself in the process. He doesn't necessarily have to appear in person, they can do hearings via videoconference


As far as I can tell, the hearing usually takes only one day, maybe several days at most. So most of the time, Froome is free to carry on as usual. If there is a hearing, he can certainly request a particular date that's most convenient to him. Even if, to take a worst case scenario, the hearing were to be held in the middle of the Giro (though it would almost certainly be postponed till after the Giro was over), he could at least request it take place on a rest day.

avanti wrote:I'm not a Froome fan however it seems to me that the percentage of salbutamol in his urine is not affected by his hydration status.


You mean the concentration is not affected by dehydration? What data are you basing this on?
Merckx index
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Re: Froome Talk Only

14 Feb 2018 01:23

Helle Qvortrup Bachmann
Image

It will be funny if Froome gets Ms. Bachmann as his judge. Women's cyclocross versus men's road cycling, who wins?
Looking at the rotation of the ADT judges, she hasn't been up in a while.
She is one of the more-likely choices based on circumstances as well
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14 Feb 2018 01:38

Ehh, this ADT is a rubberstamp kangaroo court, it's FISA without federals. It was "extracted" from the UCI because having McQuaid "adjudicate" cases was too ridiculous a look even for cycling. Created by none other than Brian Cookson (remember this guy?) and staffed with a bunch of PhD students (hello Ms. Bachmann). No one takes it serious, which is you can appeal all of its decisions to CAS and CAS will never consider any of its findings.

I don't think it actually does any "findings". It's a glorified decision tree.
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14 Feb 2018 02:54

I guess we have a different understanding of what PhD student means^^
Goodbye, Tommeke; thank you for all you have given us!
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14 Feb 2018 04:15

bunch of PhD students (hello Ms. Bachmann). No one takes it serious

She raced Marianne Vos in XCO mountain biking, would be a bad idea to underestimate her
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Re:

14 Feb 2018 04:46

hazaran wrote:Ehh, this ADT is a rubberstamp kangaroo court, it's FISA without federals. It was "extracted" from the UCI because having McQuaid "adjudicate" cases was too ridiculous a look even for cycling. Created by none other than Brian Cookson (remember this guy?) and staffed with a bunch of PhD students (hello Ms. Bachmann). No one takes it serious, which is you can appeal all of its decisions to CAS and CAS will never consider any of its findings.

I don't think it actually does any "findings". It's a glorified decision tree.


Ehh, this WADA is a rubberstamp get-out-of-jail free card, it's Wall Street without financiers. It was "extracted" from the law because having civilian courts dispense real justice was too threatening a look even for deep pocket sponsors. Created by none other than the IOC (remember this organization?) and armed with a bunch of ridiculously lax doping standards (hello, salbutamol). No one takes it seriously, which is why you can you can appeal all of its decisions to the passport, and the passport will never consider any of its negative tests.

I don't think it actually does any "tests". It's a glorified early warning system.

I guess you could say the one balances the other.
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Re:

14 Feb 2018 06:23

Robert5091 wrote:http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/chris-froomes-salbutamol-case-reportedly-heading-to-uci-anti-doping-tribunal/
Can't wait to get this season started!!

Plan A - ADT hopefully short ban from Vuelta, Race Giro & Tour
Plan B - Bad outcome at ADT - appeal, appeal appeal. Race Giro & Tour - hope for ban over Winter 2018/2019

Whatever happens, let us hope that no "fan" takes matters into his own hands.


Plan C - Froomes team presents an air tight case. And he was able to show those numbers again. Hopefully, No ban
Plan D - Froomes team proves his kidney malfuntioned. Hopefully, No ban.

Cool! :) :razz:
SeriousSam wrote: Peña Cabarga is like Froome's Mount Doom, the place where his great power was forged into fearsome weapon. He was never going to lose here
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Re:

14 Feb 2018 07:44

TourOfSardinia wrote:Looks like CF's hit the nebulizer already in this Gazzetta photo taken in the Hotel
Image

Wouldn't like to meet him in a dark alley
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