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Froome Talk Only

The Clinic is the only place on Cyclingnews where you can discuss doping-related issues. Ask questions, discuss positives or improvements to procedures.

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Re:

21 Sep 2018 07:18

Benotti69 wrote:Arguing Sky and Froome are clean takes one iota of intelligence. But hey that's what it takes to be a sky fan.

no arguing here...just fairy tales from the clinic
rick james
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Re: Froome Talk Only

21 Sep 2018 07:31

gillan1969 wrote:
samhocking wrote:Equating WADA's dealing of Froome's salbutomol AAF with Russia is hitting new lows in argument. I know the clinic seems to have died a death recently but no need to kill your own common sense with it ; )


its exactly the same just on an individual level

here's what the rules say

Except:
• Inhaled salbutamol: maximum 1600 micrograms over
24 hours in divided doses not to exceed 800 micrograms
over 12 hours starting from any dose;
• Inhaled formoterol: maximum delivered dose of
54 micrograms over 24 hours;
• Inhaled salmeterol: maximum 200 micrograms over
24 hours.
The presence in urine of salbutamol in excess of 1000 ng/mL
or formoterol in excess of 40 ng/mL is not consistent with
therapeutic use of the substance and will be considered as an
Adverse Analytical Finding (AAF) unless the Athlete proves,
through a controlled pharmacokinetic study, that the
abnormal result was the consequence of a therapeutic dose
(by inhalation) up to the maximum dose indicated above.


I've helped with the emphasis obvs ;)

So...really simple yes or no question. Did Froome's case follow the rules?

Edit. As a PS...of course that's important as we don't know how his body reacts to the input values of salbutomol which he self reported during the Vuelta...WADA had no way of knowing what they actually were.....so...how would you find that out for any given individual??....yup...a pharmacokinetic study........but you know this ;)


You could indeed argue that the rules have not been followed in the Froome case, but in doing so you must also factor in that the man who effectively introduced the test and therefore the associated rules, has come out and admitted that the test is flawed. Therefore by association the rules applicable to said test must also be flawed and open to challenge. The rules were challenged successfully.

That's an entirely different scenario to the whole Russia saga. So not the same at all really.
brownbobby
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21 Sep 2018 07:43

It's pretty complicated to get right this asthma inhaler thing. It definitely required £billions of state-funded control and government control via NHS to get the blue inhalers to the athletes without anyone noticing!
samhocking
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Re: Re:

21 Sep 2018 09:46

rick james wrote:
Benotti69 wrote:Arguing Sky and Froome are clean takes one iota of intelligence. But hey that's what it takes to be a sky fan.

no arguing here...just fairy tales from the clinic


The defense of someone like froome always breaks down at the point their fans start to act like an accusation of doping against a cyclist (let alone a 4x tdf champion) is some sort of ridiculous proposition out of touch with reality.

"fairytales", "conspiracy theories" etc.
User avatar The Hitch
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Re: Froome Talk Only

21 Sep 2018 10:44

Perhaps, but in this discussion, equating a NADO's non-compliance with an athletes AAF is simply dumb whatever way you want to spin it.
samhocking
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Re: Re:

21 Sep 2018 11:49

rick james wrote:
Benotti69 wrote:Arguing Sky and Froome are clean takes one iota of intelligence. But hey that's what it takes to be a sky fan.

no arguing here...just fairy tales from the clinic


speaking of fairytales

WADA just let Russia back into the sporting world.

Same WADA that said Froome did not dope.......We're off the see the Wizard the wonderful Wizard of Oz. :lol:
User avatar Benotti69
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Re: Froome Talk Only

21 Sep 2018 12:08

samhocking wrote:Equating WADA's dealing of Froome's salbutomol AAF with Russia is hitting new lows in argument. I know the clinic seems to have died a death recently but no need to kill your own common sense with it ; )


What? Blaming the exact same organisation for the same corruption....no way. Not acceptable!!!!!

https://twitter.com/mjshrimper/status/1043100400449138688

https://twitter.com/oliverbrown_tel/status/1042853004171468805

https://twitter.com/oliverbrown_tel/status/1042853004171468805

https://twitter.com/bryanfogel/status/1042761973815894018

I think the hammering WADA are getting across the board including guys like Callum Skinner throws Froome's Salbutamol case out the window as far as Skyfans want to claim he didn't dope.

WADA were never fit for purpose.

They were created by IOC as a smoke screen.

No one is killing common sense apart from Skyfans who appear to live in lalaland. :D
User avatar Benotti69
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21 Sep 2018 15:41

well take it up in the Russian doping thread
rick james
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Re:

29 Sep 2018 04:33

While looking for other material, I noticed that there was this item published in Lancet about salbutamol/TDF etc., the items that were debated here not-too-long time ago.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(18)31866-X/fulltext
(copy-paste the url, parentheses cause Lancet links never to work properly)

I have almost zero interest on the Froome-asthma case and can't evaluate how significant/interesting that item is.
User avatar Aragon
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Re: Froome Talk Only

11 Oct 2018 08:11

Whilst the blood passport is a sort of attempt......we need something like this in cycling....well...of course we do have the straight face test I suppose.....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-45812210

An Unexplained 'Form' Order :D :D

The questions would have been asked in Autumn '11

Mr Froome....how do you support this sudden and completedly unexpected increase in form? (Michelle hurridly looks in bag for tropical disease/fax/set of scales)
gillan1969
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Re: Re:

11 Oct 2018 13:21

Aragon wrote:While looking for other material, I noticed that there was this item published in Lancet about salbutamol/TDF etc., the items that were debated here not-too-long time ago.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(18)31866-X/fulltext
(copy-paste the url, parentheses cause Lancet links never to work properly)

I have almost zero interest on the Froome-asthma case and can't evaluate how significant/interesting that item is.


I thought that would be the Austin article I have been trying to find, and which doesn't come up in any searches. But no, some other authors, and the article doesn't seem to add anything new. After a very brief summary of the Froome case, they conclude with this gem:

Despite the controversy surrounding the resolution of Froome's case and the long history of doping in cycling, an optimistic vision of professional cycling is not necessarily naive. Athletes' temptation for banned substances will always exist, but using doping agents with a clear ability to manipulate sports capabilities, notably those enhancing oxygen supply to working muscles, the main limiting factor for endurance performance, is becoming increasingly difficult—cyclists' haematocrit values now resemble those reported in the so-called pre-erythropoietin era.5 The ability to endure a gruelling training regime distinguishes cycling champions.


The posted link doesn't work, though when I found the note (it's not an article, just a few short paragraphs), the URL was the same as that link.
Last edited by Merckx index on 11 Oct 2018 14:57, edited 2 times in total.
Merckx index
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11 Oct 2018 13:28

Puckfiend
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