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Di Gregorio

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13 Jul 2012 18:55

This whole ozone thing sounds like quackery to me - both the posted link about pain relief and de Gregorio:

Ozone is a molecular substance which contains three oxygen atoms, instead of the usual two. Oxygen is good for you, makes you win races (that is after all, why EPO is effective, because the consequence is that your blood can carry more oxygen). So anything with three oxygen atoms instead of two has got to be good for you, right?

The problem is that it isn't right:
... Ozone is a powerful oxidant (far more so than dioxygen [note: molecular oxygeen with the normal two atoms]) and has many industrial and consumer applications related to oxidization. This same high oxidizing potential, however, causes ozone to damage mucus and respiratory tissues in animals, and also tissues in plants, above concentrations of about 100 parts per billion. This makes ozone a potent respiratory hazard and pollutant ...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ozone

Injecting someone with ozone is really rather an alarming prospect.

To emphasize the point, hydrogen (H), carbon (C) and nitrogen (N) are essential elements in the make-up of all living things - yet HCN (hydrogen cyanide) is extremely toxic.

Personally, I think pursuing de Gregorio for doping in this case is important. Protecting the health of athletes is, I think, one of the powerful reasons to bother fighting doping in sports. Even if it's protecting them from their own stupidity.
Square-pedaller
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13 Jul 2012 20:38

Square-pedaller wrote:This whole ozone thing sounds like quackery to me - both the posted link about pain relief and de Gregorio:

Ozone is a molecular substance which contains three oxygen atoms, instead of the usual two. Oxygen is good for you, makes you win races (that is after all, why EPO is effective, because the consequence is that your blood can carry more oxygen). So anything with three oxygen atoms instead of two has got to be good for you, right?

The problem is that it isn't right:

Injecting someone with ozone is really rather an alarming prospect.

To emphasize the point, hydrogen (H), carbon (C) and nitrogen (N) are essential elements in the make-up of all living things - yet HCN (hydrogen cyanide) is extremely toxic.

Personally, I think pursuing de Gregorio for doping in this case is important. Protecting the health of athletes is, I think, one of the powerful reasons to bother fighting doping in sports. Even if it's protecting them from their own stupidity.


Thanks that was most informative. It'll also stop me running around looking for ozone injections for my back problems.

You point out something that has been completely forgotten. Doping should be controlled because it harms or kills. Cheating is hardly the main factor. After all, Evolution is all about cheating. Microbial life cheats to survive and the non cheat dies out. It's in our genes to try and make the fight for survival unequal with us on top. Telling an athlete that he's cheating probably has the same effect on him as telling him his neighbour down the road got bitten by a mosquito. I really wish WADA, the IOC, UCI and every other authority concerned with sport would start talking about the health hazzards instead of gassing on endlessly about what naughty cheats the athletes are.
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13 Jul 2012 21:42

pugdog wrote:Thanks that was most informative. It'll also stop me running around looking for ozone injections for my back problems.

You point out something that has been completely forgotten. Doping should be controlled because it harms or kills. Cheating is hardly the main factor. After all, Evolution is all about cheating. Microbial life cheats to survive and the non cheat dies out. It's in our genes to try and make the fight for survival unequal with us on top. Telling an athlete that he's cheating probably has the same effect on him as telling him his neighbour down the road got bitten by a mosquito. I really wish WADA, the IOC, UCI and every other authority concerned with sport would start talking about the health hazzards instead of gassing on endlessly about what naughty cheats the athletes are.


Check out http://list.wada-ama.org/ there's a wealth of info there, and the main site http://www.wada-ama.org/en/
Have a look at The Code which is linked on both sites.

The Code (roughly says) that a substance is considered for inclusion on the banned list if it meets any two of the following three criteria:
1)The substance has the potential to enhance sport performance;
2)Its use represents an actual or potential health risk to the athlete; and
3)Its use violates the 'spirit of sport'
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13 Jul 2012 21:42

I thought ozone bonds to blood and won't release in the lungs - kind of like carbon monoxide?

I know that my lungs hurt after riding in traffic on a hot summer day - mostly from what I understand as ozone???

This explanation and story reminds me of a old story from Greg Strock:

"For the duration of my time on the team, I was told things were “vitamins” and “extract of cortisone,” things to help me recover and cleanse my system. Every single time I asked, “Is this legal? Is this safe?” because up until that point, I’d never even taken a multi-vitamin, I don’t think. I just kinda ate well, trained and went with it. So, when needles started to get involved I was leery. It was repetitively preached to me that it was safe, legal and these were vitamins. I mean how can you question vitamins? And I had no idea that there was no such thing as “extract of cortisone.”
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13 Jul 2012 22:06

montel wrote:I thought ozone bonds to blood and won't release in the lungs - kind of like carbon monoxide?

Carbon monoxide does indeed bind irreversibly with haemoglobin.
The ozone story seems to be less specific. When it breaks down to oxgyen is also produces a free oxygen radical, and this is highly reactive with, and damaging to, organic molecules. Ozone can also react directly with organic compounds.

montel wrote:I know that my lungs hurt after riding in traffic on a hot summer day - mostly from what I understand as ozone???

It seems that ozone derived from vehicle exhausts causes lung and cardiovascular disease. However, I'm not an expert and have no idea whether that's what causes your lungs to hurt.
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14 Jul 2012 06:30

pelodee wrote:Check out http://list.wada-ama.org/ there's a wealth of info there, and the main site http://www.wada-ama.org/en/
Have a look at The Code which is linked on both sites.

The Code (roughly says) that a substance is considered for inclusion on the banned list if it meets any two of the following three criteria:
1)The substance has the potential to enhance sport performance;
2)Its use represents an actual or potential health risk to the athlete; and
3)Its use violates the 'spirit of sport'


Thanks for the references.

I know the Code talks about the health risks of doping. Unfortunately the People don't talk about the health risks. It's just an eternal litany about cheating, fraud etc etc. It is totally ineffectual as an argument. Drumming the danger-to-health message might eventually work. Like it has with smoking and to a large part drinking. (OK adolescent binge drinking aside). Show them the medical consequences of doping.... just like you just did with ozone injections.
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18 Oct 2012 21:23

Anyone knows where he´ll be 2013? His case is still pending, has Cofidis ended his contract already, or does he remain just "suspended"?
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14 Dec 2012 19:27

If I were him, I´d feel REALLY angry and mad, why do these cases take so long?

I´m pretty sure authorities are doing NOTHING to move ahead in this case, just wait, sit around, drink coffee, and so on.

Contador case 2 years, di Gregorio´s case going slowly, and also so many other´s cases. It´s a f.cking shame.
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09 Apr 2013 11:47

The court of Aix-en-Provence has today acquitted Rémy Di Gregorio. The rider told La Provence that "toxicologic analyses carried out by court-appointed experts proved that in the end it were vitamines".

Angry about having missed so many months of competition, the Frenchman declared: "Today the court of Aix has declared the verdict that I have been waiting for for 10 months. I can finally do my job again, my passion! I have been dragged through the mudd. I was the ideal vilain. But I am innocent! I have always said that I have never doped".

Now Di Gregorio will sue his former team Cofidis "for unjust termination of contract because the damage is enormous for me" before "turning the page and leave this affair behind me"

http://www.cyclismactu.net/news-divers-di-gregorio-innocente-par-le-tribunal-d-aix-31793.html
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09 Apr 2013 14:49

What a mess, shouldn't he be suing the lab rather though as Codifis were only applying the UCI rules most likely?
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09 Apr 2013 20:16

webvan wrote:What a mess, shouldn't he be suing the lab rather though as Codifis were only applying the UCI rules most likely?


With the past problems cofidis have had they were damned if they did nothing and damned if they did. Surely a test to see what the drugs were would only take a couple of days?
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10 Apr 2013 07:33

An "unpopular" doctor in my area was banned cause he was using ozon therapy on cyclists.
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10 Apr 2013 08:01

Michele wrote:An "unpopular" doctor in my area was banned cause he was using ozon therapy on cyclists.


It works well. A lot of cancer patients use it as an alternate to chemotherapy.

Mainly in Mexico and South America but you can get it done in the US. Under the table.

It's a "natural" treatment.
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10 Apr 2013 08:06

braislford wanted to sign this digregorio gringo after that dauphine ride in about 2005
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10 Apr 2013 08:57

cofidis are blameless in this in my view, given his past teams, they couldnt stick their neck out, theirs more to the story than we are hearing.
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10 Apr 2013 09:12

Di Grégorio has not been acquitted. His bail conditions have been adjusted.

Le Monde, yesterday wrote:"This is about lifting the part of Mr De Gré]

Thus...

Idem wrote:The 27-year old professional, who considers himself "rehabilitated", stated in an interview published Tuesday 9th April in the daily newspaper La Provence that he may use a recent favourable decision from the Court of Appeal in Aix-en-Provence to sue his former team Cofidis which had fired him.


http://www.lemonde.fr/sport/article/2013/04/09/dopage-remy-di-gregorio-autorise-a-recourir_3156745_3242.html

A "favourable decision" is not the same as "acquitted".
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10 Apr 2013 10:24

manafana wrote:cofidis are blameless in this in my view, given his past teams, they couldnt stick their neck out, theirs more to the story than we are hearing.


Wasn't Di Grégorio using ozone therapy? I am not a scientist, but this "therapy" sounds a lot like blood doping with a fancy name. What should Cofidis have done when they learned he was extracting then reinjecting blood? Assuming they didn't know he was doing it in the first place.
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10 Apr 2013 10:47

frenchfry wrote:Wasn't Di Grégorio using ozone therapy? I am not a scientist, but this "therapy" sounds a lot like blood doping with a fancy name. What should Cofidis have done when they learned he was extracting then reinjecting blood? Assuming they didn't know he was doing it in the first place.


And now this:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/cofidis-respond-to-di-gregorios-claims-of-innocence

Provided that the timing was right, Cofidis was correct, because DiG violated the code of the team by consulting Ségui. The fact that Ségui admitted to ozoning DiG's blood wasn't even necessary to break the contract.

I would also expect that the only reason the FFC hasn't opened proceedings against DiG already is because the criminal investigation is still ongoing.

There was a lot of sloppy journalism yesterday and now DiG's spin on the story makes him look like a martyr in the face of a team with an infamous history but, let's not forget, several years' worth of anaemic results and absolutely no new doping-related dirt since 2007.
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14 Oct 2013 19:39

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/di-gregorio-wins-court-case-over-cofidis


Cofidis has been sentenced to pay "significant damages" to Di Gregorio, according to the rider's lawyer Fabienne Bendayan-Chetrit, who agreed with her client to not disclose the amount. She added that negotiations were ongoing for a comeback in a French professional team.
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Re: Di Gregorio

11 Apr 2018 18:23

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