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The Sky-Con-O-Meter. Predictions on how much more ridiculous they can get

The Clinic is the only place on Cyclingnews where you can discuss doping-related issues. Ask questions, discuss positives or improvements to procedures.

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08 Jul 2018 17:19

Rupert Murdoch set to receive clearance in bid for full control of Sky

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2018/jul/08/rupert-murdoch-set-to-receive-clearance-in-bid-for-full-control-of-sky

Cant have his team's big star testing positive now can he........
User avatar Benotti69
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11 Jul 2018 18:57

User avatar Benotti69
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19 Jul 2018 00:20

Yesterday was up there on levels of ridiculousness. (I'm including the post-stage interview too)
User avatar wirral
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19 Jul 2018 00:59

Tomorrow Sky goes one-two. In reverse order. Froome takes yellow. Tour over on stage 12. Onward to the Vuelta!
Puckfiend
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Re: The Sky-Con-O-Meter. Predictions on how much more ridic

19 Jul 2018 01:17

It will be fun to see the spin that comes out of the Sky PR machine after Froome takes the red jersey at this year's Vuelta. It's amazing what proper warming-down and hand-washing can do. When will those other teams learn how to train properly? And strategy! Having the plan in place really pays off. Why don't the other teams think to have their domestiques ride the legs off top GC men on tempo rides? It's really basic stuff, here.
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Re: The Sky-Con-O-Meter. Predictions on how much more ridic

19 Jul 2018 07:16

Think you're assuming wrongly that Sky would actually reveal their marginal gains? We get to hear about what can be said for the marketing department, not what actually makes a difference in my opinion. People take that as being non-transparent, I take it as simply business sense. I would never reveal the secrets to my company success just because people ask. Knowledge is my unique asset, there would be no way I would just reveal what I worked so hard for. I'd reveal the stuff I know makes some difference, but available to my competitors anyway. The stuff that truly makes me unique I would not even sell to a competitor.
samhocking
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Re: The Sky-Con-O-Meter. Predictions on how much more ridic

19 Jul 2018 11:37

samhocking wrote:Think you're assuming wrongly that Sky would actually reveal their marginal gains? We get to hear about what can be said for the marketing department, not what actually makes a difference in my opinion. People take that as being non-transparent, I take it as simply business sense. I would never reveal the secrets to my company success just because people ask. Knowledge is my unique asset, there would be no way I would just reveal what I worked so hard for. I'd reveal the stuff I know makes some difference, but available to my competitors anyway. The stuff that truly makes me unique I would not even sell to a competitor.


Doping generally is not talked about openly by teams, no.
User avatar thehog
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19 Jul 2018 11:44

Nothing that makes you faster is discussed, not just doping.
samhocking
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Re: The Sky-Con-O-Meter. Predictions on how much more ridic

19 Jul 2018 11:48

samhocking wrote:Think you're assuming wrongly that Sky would actually reveal their marginal gains? We get to hear about what can be said for the marketing department, not what actually makes a difference in my opinion. People take that as being non-transparent, I take it as simply business sense. I would never reveal the secrets to my company success just because people ask. Knowledge is my unique asset, there would be no way I would just reveal what I worked so hard for. I'd reveal the stuff I know makes some difference, but available to my competitors anyway. The stuff that truly makes me unique I would not even sell to a competitor.


I think any rational person knows exactly what the marginal gains are we just don't know the ingredients.
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Re: The Sky-Con-O-Meter. Predictions on how much more ridic

19 Jul 2018 12:08

samhocking wrote:Think you're assuming wrongly that Sky would actually reveal their marginal gains? We get to hear about what can be said for the marketing department, not what actually makes a difference in my opinion. People take that as being non-transparent, I take it as simply business sense. I would never reveal the secrets to my company success just because people ask. Knowledge is my unique asset, there would be no way I would just reveal what I worked so hard for. I'd reveal the stuff I know makes some difference, but available to my competitors anyway. The stuff that truly makes me unique I would not even sell to a competitor.


When Sky initially pledged transparency and then fed us all the marginal gains BS, most of us saw through it all . So now Sky just act arrogant and ridicule anyone that questions their holier than thou status.
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Re: The Sky-Con-O-Meter. Predictions on how much more ridic

19 Jul 2018 16:09

samhocking wrote: I would never reveal the secrets to my company success just because people ask.


That’s why I’m a scientist and not a businessman. Scientists want their discoveries to help everyone. Businessmen want to enrich themselves.

Knowledge is my unique asset, there would be no way I would just reveal what I worked so hard for.


The joy is in being the first to know something, not being the only one to know.

The stuff that truly makes me unique I would not even sell to a competitor.


The stuff that truly makes us unique can't be described in words. It's not something that can be sold.
Merckx index
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Re: The Sky-Con-O-Meter. Predictions on how much more ridic

19 Jul 2018 19:14

Merckx index wrote:
samhocking wrote: I would never reveal the secrets to my company success just because people ask.


That’s why I’m a scientist and not a businessman. Scientists want their discoveries to help everyone. Businessmen want to enrich themselves.

Knowledge is my unique asset, there would be no way I would just reveal what I worked so hard for.


The joy is in being the first to know something, not being the only one to know.

The stuff that truly makes me unique I would not even sell to a competitor.


The stuff that truly makes us unique can't be described in words. It's not something that can be sold.

Excellent, MI. Thank you
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Re: The Sky-Con-O-Meter. Predictions on how much more ridic

20 Jul 2018 09:33

ontheroad wrote:
samhocking wrote:Think you're assuming wrongly that Sky would actually reveal their marginal gains? We get to hear about what can be said for the marketing department, not what actually makes a difference in my opinion. People take that as being non-transparent, I take it as simply business sense. I would never reveal the secrets to my company success just because people ask. Knowledge is my unique asset, there would be no way I would just reveal what I worked so hard for. I'd reveal the stuff I know makes some difference, but available to my competitors anyway. The stuff that truly makes me unique I would not even sell to a competitor.


I think any rational person knows exactly what the marginal gains are we just don't know the ingredients.

It would actually be interesting to know what kind of juice it's used. It's really crazy that since 2012 they are turning losers into champions and real champions like Nibali and Quintana have not figured out yet what is going on.
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20 Jul 2018 12:14

Just like USPS; the methods are known, but the infrastructure and the political/financial muscle are not so simply copied.
Franklin
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Re: The Sky-Con-O-Meter. Predictions on how much more ridic

20 Jul 2018 13:56

Merckx index wrote:
samhocking wrote: I would never reveal the secrets to my company success just because people ask.


That’s why I’m a scientist and not a businessman. Scientists want their discoveries to help everyone. Businessmen want to enrich themselves.

Knowledge is my unique asset, there would be no way I would just reveal what I worked so hard for.


The joy is in being the first to know something, not being the only one to know.

The stuff that truly makes me unique I would not even sell to a competitor.


The stuff that truly makes us unique can't be described in words. It's not something that can be sold.


I'm talking about professional sport, not the medical profession. There's nothing altruistic about sport or its existence in the first place. Its a business if it's sponsored. Pro Cycling exists because a business requires a ROI, just like a business requires a ROI for any investment and you don't give your competitor anything. I'm not even sure what your point is MI other than the obvious?
samhocking
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20 Jul 2018 14:26

Sam - are you from the US? I ask because nearly the entire US medical profession, most all health care, not to mention the pharmaceutical industry is run in a capitalist, for-profit environment.

Put another way, I don't know Merckx personally, but we've both been here for some time, I believe he's a retired research PhD from Stanford university who likely spent most of his career at the front end of research, running tests, in labs, studying results over and over, much before any product was released to the capitalist world.

Put another way, you looked at the mindset of the pharmaceutical companies dealing with capitalism, while he was taking the position of independent scientific research and development, long before markets and profits had anything to do with anything.
User avatar Alpe d'Huez
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20 Jul 2018 14:37

I know the angle MI is getting at. But cycling is not saving lives, there is no altruistic element within a cycling team to inform other cycling teams or fans what makes them ride a bike faster. Some will see it as not being transparent, but I would say it's simply common sense to only tell what everyone already knows makes you ride a bike faster and for marketing that is more than enough. Take SIS's latest advertorial for example. Clearly that didn't win Froomes Giro, but the marginal gain they use is Froome has their latest prototype energy drink to make the fuelling strategy work. It's all marketing, but many in the clinic view marginal gain claims as if that is everything Sky are doing. Clearly they are not going to tell anyone, even their own riders how they are riding faster, that is their knowledge to use internally, nobody elses business.
samhocking
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Re: The Sky-Con-O-Meter. Predictions on how much more ridic

20 Jul 2018 14:47

samhocking wrote:Think you're assuming wrongly that Sky would actually reveal their marginal gains? We get to hear about what can be said for the marketing department, not what actually makes a difference in my opinion. People take that as being non-transparent, I take it as simply business sense. I would never reveal the secrets to my company success just because people ask. Knowledge is my unique asset, there would be no way I would just reveal what I worked so hard for. I'd reveal the stuff I know makes some difference, but available to my competitors anyway. The stuff that truly makes me unique I would not even sell to a competitor.


I'd say everything we hear out of Sky is marketing BS.
The truth is they have managed to dial up the perfect combination of $$$, pharmacology and political reach to be able to achieve their desire of winning grand tours at will.
They just need to pick a rider and strap them in for the ride.
It's all just a little bit of Deja vu.
advanced one
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20 Jul 2018 15:12

Yes, I see your point. Marketing certainly feeds the spoils of capitalism. They are there to win, and make money. Who they tell and how is always going to be a secret, especially if it's by nefarious means.

The proof is always in the pudding though. As someone once noted, despite stripping him of his wins and the public backlash, Lance Armstrong still stood on the podium in Paris seven times. He is still a multi-millionare.
User avatar Alpe d'Huez
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Re: The Sky-Con-O-Meter. Predictions on how much more ridic

20 Jul 2018 17:47

Merckx index wrote:
samhocking wrote: I would never reveal the secrets to my company success just because people ask.


That’s why I’m a scientist and not a businessman. Scientists want their discoveries to help everyone. Businessmen want to enrich themselves.

Knowledge is my unique asset, there would be no way I would just reveal what I worked so hard for.


The joy is in being the first to know something, not being the only one to know.

The stuff that truly makes me unique I would not even sell to a competitor.


The stuff that truly makes us unique can't be described in words. It's not something that can be sold.

This is a silly comparison. Yes, you’ll happily share your discovery, as a publication. Once the discovery is made and published you’ve made your “currency” from it and you’re on to the next thing. It’s completely different to someone running a business.
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Reduce your carbon footprint, ride steel.
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