Log in:  

Register

Paula Radcliffe Speaks out

The Clinic is the only place on Cyclingnews where you can discuss doping-related issues. Ask questions, discuss positives or improvements to procedures.

Moderators: Irondan, Eshnar, Red Rick, Tonton, King Boonen, Valv.Piti, Pricey_sky

Paula Radcliffe Speaks out

25 Jul 2012 20:34

Link

A little more articulate than Brad was, a fair reflection of the state of the 'game' between dopers and testers.

Hope someone can catch the show in an hour or so.
User avatar Catwhoorg
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2,971
Joined: 24 Aug 2011 11:00
Location: Atlanta, GA

25 Jul 2012 20:40

think that should have been put in the Olympic Doping thread.
User avatar Cycle Chic
Member
 
Posts: 1,756
Joined: 26 Sep 2009 18:24
Location: United Kingdom

25 Jul 2012 20:52

Thanks for the heads up, will try to catch that later.
User avatar will10
Veteran
 
Posts: 6,013
Joined: 27 Dec 2010 14:08

25 Jul 2012 21:24

Is Radcliffe's career ascent credible. Cant you plot it on a curve, and compare it to Kenyans that Stefan Matschiner used to blood dope. Those golden league athletes are on rocket fuel and blood boosters. Olga Yegorova may have been doing a program that was too egregious, but she was not doing stuff the others are not, she was just too successful eh.

It will mean something in Britain when the cyclists like Millar, Wiggins, Cavendish and Sir Chris Hoy, turn on themselves. File this one away to a "meh, sosdd"
"Hitler … didn't even sink to using chemical weapons."
User avatar blackcat
Veteran
 
Posts: 12,232
Joined: 13 Mar 2009 19:20

25 Jul 2012 21:28

The article there says the samples are stored for 8 years. Wish we did that in cycling.
User avatar Caruut
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2,204
Joined: 30 Oct 2011 18:26

25 Jul 2012 21:30

Caruut wrote:The article there says the samples are stored for 8 years. Wish we did that in cycling.

I think we do, technically.
User avatar hrotha
Veteran
 
Posts: 15,459
Joined: 10 Jun 2010 20:45

25 Jul 2012 22:10

One thing is for sure. Paula Radcliffe completely destroys the idea that the English could not do something like dope (or take a crap in a marathon with hundreds of thousands of people watching) because it would be too embarrassing.
"Listen, my son. Trust no one! You can count on no one but yourself. Improve your skills, son. Harden your body. Become a number one man. Do not ever let anyone beat you!" -- Gekitotsu! Satsujin ken
User avatar BroDeal
Veteran
 
Posts: 13,318
Joined: 18 Mar 2009 00:41
Location: Above 5000 feet

25 Jul 2012 22:28

gooner wrote:Stop this doping only view of everything.

She has been vehemently anti-doping and consistent in her views throughout her career. She has even asked for her blood tests to be made public. Is that not enough for you?



Words cannot conceal that the fact that, among others, having the three fastest times in women's marathon in her possession is pretty astonishing for a white female. Bearing in mind the EPO and transfusion era, the rudimental or close to worthless doping testing in marathon (especially OOC with the altitude training in africa) and african women actually getting caught in later years ran a significant percentage slower than Radcliffe did, doesn't make it better.
Nilsson
Member
 
Posts: 368
Joined: 10 Jan 2012 19:08

25 Jul 2012 22:46

Steve Jones set the British men's record at 2.07.13 back in 1985. Quite why this hasnt been beaten is intriguing as with better understanding of training, nutrition, you would think that someone of the standard could be running faster now, maybe 2.05? Therefore, need the race of someone come into it?

FWIW i always thought that it seemed like her body was meant to go very fast at a single speed, equals a very fast marathon runner. I'm more suspicious of people who are fast at a long distance but can also sprint fast as well.
Frosty
Senior Member
 
Posts: 3,040
Joined: 25 Jun 2009 08:39
Location: UK

25 Jul 2012 23:14

gooner wrote:Stop this doping only view of everything.


I
GO
GULAG


She has been vehemently anti-doping and consistent in her views throughout her career. She has even asked for her blood tests to be made public. Is that not enough for you?


was not the phenomenon as a jnr. But she has this dominance, thru this british muscular christianity only the anglophones can know.

The fact that african distance physiques have a material advantage in dinstance and middle distance running, which would be manifest in records, seems to avoid your opinion, and her justification.

Records and wins, inandofthemself, do not provide evidence for peds. But, we have heard this spiel from Armstrong, from Wiggins, from many white, english speaking athletes, and they are ALWAYS afforded credit for their ethics, only to crush the public's confidence in them.

as GW bush said... Fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again.
"Hitler … didn't even sink to using chemical weapons."
User avatar blackcat
Veteran
 
Posts: 12,232
Joined: 13 Mar 2009 19:20

25 Jul 2012 23:23

gooner wrote:Stop this doping only view of everything.

She has been vehemently anti-doping and consistent in her views throughout her career. She has even asked for her blood tests to be made public. Is that not enough for you?


read this thread
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=4158101&page=0

two posts from the first page
reasonable question
RE: Wejo (and others): Tell me why Paula wasn't a doper. 7/27/2011 4:29PM - in reply to Empiricism Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
given all the discussion about others doping, the lack of discussion about the POSSIBILITY of Paula doping is extremely noteworthy----the 2:15 is such an outlier--especially considering her pre-marathon international career, which was world class but certainly did not portend anything near 2:15-----i am a white financial biz guy, and I hate those who come on here and say race is reason the Africans are suspected but Americans not, under similar improvement circumstances, but even I have to admit that i nthis case if Paula were African the situation re:suspicion buzz would be quite different-----I don't know the truth, but seriously guys, if this were anyone other than a Brit or an American, people would be including the 2;15 in the discussion of the Chinese women's records.......is it unintended racism, blindness to what is obvious, or is it real?--not sure

But the folks who post on this thread as to imply they are offended by the suggestion, come on


Read more: http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=4158101&page=0#ixzz21k5WgAa9
Buy your shoes from LetsRun and save 20% everday http://www.letsrun.com/save


reasonable question
RE: Wejo (and others): Tell me why Paula wasn't a doper. 7/27/2011 4:38PM - in reply to one take Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
a cynic could say she has been using the Armstrong playbook

1--Paula's marathon performance wildly disproportionate to her pre-marathon track PR's --- "she found her event" = Armstrong's body changed due to cancer, less mass, but same engine, so that is why he is so much better post cancer

2--Paula public vocal stance against PEDs = Armstrong Livestrong strategy---people just don't believe you can be such a phony hypocrite


Read more: http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=4158101&page=0#ixzz21k5fLCuh
Buy your shoes from LetsRun and save 20% everday http://www.letsrun.com/save
"Hitler … didn't even sink to using chemical weapons."
User avatar blackcat
Veteran
 
Posts: 12,232
Joined: 13 Mar 2009 19:20

25 Jul 2012 23:54

blackcat wrote:Is Radcliffe's career ascent credible.


I'm a Paula Radcliffe fan, but the answer is no, it is not credible in the sense of being a likely path of improvement.

That said, evaluating someone of this ability inherently requires such a small (and unusual) sample set that I am not inclined to consider the comparison data about improvement to be as meaningful as most statistical analyses would suggest.

The truth is we have no particular evidence to suggest that she is clean or dirty. To borrow a phrase from John Nance Garner, a history of making anti-doping statements is worth less than a bucket of warm spit when it comes to determining if someone doped.
User avatar egtalbot
Junior Member
 
Posts: 183
Joined: 08 Jul 2009 21:26
Location: Massachusetts, USA

26 Jul 2012 00:02

If one were to take as a fact that white women have a disadvantage on the marathon over East-Africans, then Radcliffe must not only have been doping, but make Armstrong seem like a choir boy. At least white males are considered to be fast over a 3-week race. Radcliffe is in such a league of her own...

One could also say white females have an advantage in marathoning, and Radcliffe was the only to have really bothered to try her best, leaving a gap like that to the next white female.

Do we know how much all-out doping can win on a marathon, say starting with a clean 2:12 or 2:25 runner? Is it 2 minutes, 7, or even 10? I know it will vary from person to person, and few will find their optimal sauce mix.

As for mid-80's, weren't English speakers borrowing their brothers' or mates' blood in thos days?
Cloxxki
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2,219
Joined: 19 Mar 2009 14:25

26 Jul 2012 00:08

egtalbot wrote:I'm a Paula Radcliffe fan, but the answer is no, it is not credible in the sense of being a likely path of improvement.

That said, evaluating someone of this ability inherently requires such a small (and unusual) sample set that I am not inclined to consider the comparison data about improvement to be as meaningful as most statistical analyses would suggest.

The truth is we have no particular evidence to suggest that she is clean or dirty. To borrow a phrase from John Nance Garner, a history of making anti-doping statements is worth less than a bucket of warm spit when it comes to determining if someone doped.


I dont care if she is doping, I dont seek to deny her liberty. As long as she hurts no one, and she is not hurt in the hormone regime, go ahead.

And reap the rich rewards in the london commercial atmosphere with the endorsements.

I have no problems with that. But dont BS me folks.
"Hitler … didn't even sink to using chemical weapons."
User avatar blackcat
Veteran
 
Posts: 12,232
Joined: 13 Mar 2009 19:20

26 Jul 2012 00:10

chinese woman endurance runners mid-late 90s... turtles blood. Paula should sample
"Hitler … didn't even sink to using chemical weapons."
User avatar blackcat
Veteran
 
Posts: 12,232
Joined: 13 Mar 2009 19:20

26 Jul 2012 00:23

gooner wrote:Why are you bringing in this anglophone race theme into the discussion? I don't judge people along those lines so I don't know where you are going with that one and I don't like it being brought in here now. I judge its case on its own merits and I don't look at a person's passport when doing it so you can stop this strawmanning.


its less you. not a personal polemic and allegation to you gooner.

It is institutional. We dont see it, we dont consciously invoke these reasons. But to deny they are not present...
"Hitler … didn't even sink to using chemical weapons."
User avatar blackcat
Veteran
 
Posts: 12,232
Joined: 13 Mar 2009 19:20

26 Jul 2012 00:46

It may seem counter intuitive, but the existence of her sensational performance lead my perception of her to be clean. The "path of improvement" is one of inconsistency and frequent failures, spattered with successes. That inconstancy and prominence of failure is more familiar, and rings as a much more human development. No sophisticated doping program could mock the very real unpredictability of top level performance, and no program would allow it to happen.

I'm not sure if I was able to convey my feelings well enough so far, but put simply, a look at her whole career demonstrates more humanity than any other world leader in athletics. No records for consecutive titles, no era of dominance, no consistency at all really, which we have become accustomed to in more super-human performers.
More Strides than Rides
Member
 
Posts: 1,998
Joined: 15 Mar 2011 23:52

26 Jul 2012 00:53

I'd be more inclined to believe her if she wasn't a long time client of "healing Hans"
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/olympics/athletics/paula-radcliffe-enlists-healing-hans-to-get-fit-7912592.html
User avatar slowspoke
Junior Member
 
Posts: 219
Joined: 15 Jul 2010 21:33

26 Jul 2012 01:06

gooner, name one athlete who goes to these doctors, who is NOT a doper.

The Munich medicine man, renowned for using such unorthodox ingredients as the crest of cockerels and the blood of goat
"Hitler … didn't even sink to using chemical weapons."
User avatar blackcat
Veteran
 
Posts: 12,232
Joined: 13 Mar 2009 19:20

26 Jul 2012 04:05

Paula Radcliffe doping :rolleyes:

I don't think so.
[color="White"]...[/color]
"Age and treachery will overcome youth and skill" - Fausto Coppi
User avatar 180mmCrank
Member
 
Posts: 1,896
Joined: 11 Mar 2009 00:30
Location: Vancouver BC

Next

Return to The Clinic

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: EricDolphy, Google [Bot] and 27 guests

Back to top