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The Clinic is the only place on Cyclingnews where you can discuss doping-related issues. Ask questions, discuss positives or improvements to procedures.

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Re:

13 Sep 2018 02:39

Zebadeedee wrote:As regards steroids abuse, she remains one of the most suspected players in professional tennis right now to which any number of articles about her attest, e.g:- https://www.quora.com/Is-Serena-Williams-on-steroids
The Williams sisters also had some of the most-suspicious TUE's among those leaked in the Fancy Bears' ADAMS hack. Suggests they are willing to misuse the exemptions system to get drugs (corticosteroids, beta-agonists, opioids), and thus fits into the pattern of evasive behavior
ClassicomanoLuigi
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Re: Tennis

13 Sep 2018 08:57

Merckx index wrote:And no one has responded to my links, because no one can. The difference between a competent cartoonist and Knight—who may be racist, incompetent and/or lazy, take your pick—is that competent cartoonists identify subjects by features that are specific to them as individuals, not to the entire race which they belong. That takes more work, more drawing skill. His depiction of Serena’s face doesn’t look like her at all. So much easier just to caricature an African-American in general. He couldn't be bothered to do even that much with Osaka, just portraying her as a generic Caucasian blonde.


Oh no I can, easily, I'd just gotten bored with this discussion, dripping as it is with ironic hypocritical ignorance, and checked out. Three points:

1) Rice in particular from your links does not have the historically stereotypical features of an African-American. But Williams does, in spades. There's probably never been another famous female African-American who fits that profile as well as Serena. She has full lips, very frizzy hair, and an incredibly robust figure - they're all very distinctive features of her. That they happen to match the stereotype is by and by - Knight accentuated her features, as an individual, not simply based on her ethnicity.

2) Knight's style is caricature, particularly based around picking out and accentuating particular features of his subjects. He's been drawing that way for newspapers for over 20 years. He's drawn Williams in a moment of intense anger, with her features scrunched up - of course it doesn't look particularly like her. No-one does when pulling faces like that. I find his style neither lazy nor incompetent, but clever, incredibly well drawn, perceptive and often very funny.

3) Too many overseas critics are making ignorant criticisms with no idea of Knight's history, his views or his other work. Here's his Obama - is this racist too?

Image

And here's one he drew defending local indigenous footballer Adam Goodes during a period where he was experiencing a lot of booing and insults from footy crowds:

Image

Would a racist draw this?

Anyway here in Victoria we've well and truly moved on from this little storm in a teacup, and I shall do the same.
Mamil
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14 Nov 2018 19:48

What?? Top tennis player retires when their supposed to. Didn't Radwanska have access to the right doctor?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/46213294
wansteadimp
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21 Jan 2019 18:32

Just checking in with my semi annual observation that Serena Williams is still blatantly on P.E.D.s. That is all.
Blakeslee
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27 Jan 2019 18:25

Djokovic has reached absurd new heights. It is depressing knowing that likely this will continue for years with no consequences and nobody even looking too hard into what he may be doing. History repeats itself once again.
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Re:

27 Jan 2019 18:41

Blakeslee wrote:Djokovic has reached absurd new heights. It is depressing knowing that likely this will continue for years with no consequences and nobody even looking too hard into what he may be doing. History repeats itself once again.


The Joker is a joke. Guy does not even break a sweat when going up against a raging bull who smacks the daylights out of a tennis ball. He is obviously an exceptionally talented player who can make his opponents run around at will before applying the decisive blow; but for gawd sake man, breathe through your mouth every once in a while. You are making it look too obvious.
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27 Jan 2019 21:05

Hard time seeing one of them as obviously more doped than the other within the Big 3.
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Re:

27 Jan 2019 21:49

Red Rick wrote:Hard time seeing one of them as obviously more doped than the other within the Big 3.



On face value, I would disagree. Rafa claims to have never spent a minute in a gym, which is a weird way to deflect questions about why he can destroy a tennis ball five sets in to a match. And check those arms.

But overall, I get your point. We are not talking about steroids to make a player resemble Popeye the Sailor Man.
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Re: Re:

28 Jan 2019 12:23

the delgados wrote:
Red Rick wrote:Hard time seeing one of them as obviously more doped than the other within the Big 3.



On face value, I would disagree. Rafa claims to have never spent a minute in a gym, which is a weird way to deflect questions about why he can destroy a tennis ball five sets in to a match. And check those arms.

But overall, I get your point. We are not talking about steroids to make a player resemble Popeye the Sailor Man.

I would 100% believe players adapt their doping program to suit their game, but a lot of bulk isn't that helpful in hitting big, although it also depends on which shot and the specific kinetics of the shot.

Nadal being on steroids is something ex pro's have talked about, though I'm not gonna dig up the thread on /r/tennis. Right now I think it's much more important for their recovery than gaining muscle.

Really think oxygen vector doping is huge in tennis.
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Re: Tennis

13 Feb 2019 18:26

I just learned that two-time Grand Slam winner Naomi Osaka sent a terse Twitter message saying she is ditching her coach. No explanation was provided.
Seems weird that she would suddenly part ways with the coach who helped her win two consecutive grand slams and rocket to number 1 in the world.
I know there are some people here who know a lot about the sport and am wondering if they have any opinion or knowledge why she ditched him.
Some are suggesting something to do with PEDs, but it is all speculation at this point. Obviously there could be any number of reasons, but the situation is odd.
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Re: Tennis

25 Jun 2019 01:36

the delgados wrote:I just learned that two-time Grand Slam winner Naomi Osaka sent a terse Twitter message saying she is ditching her coach. No explanation was provided.
Seems weird that she would suddenly part ways with the coach who helped her win two consecutive grand slams and rocket to number 1 in the world.
I know there are some people here who know a lot about the sport and am wondering if they have any opinion or knowledge why she ditched him.
Some are suggesting something to do with PEDs, but it is all speculation at this point. Obviously there could be any number of reasons, but the situation is odd.


I heard a different rumour which is that she wants/wanted to start a family with her man but her team opposed her doing so, which explains her dip in form and changes in her team.
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Re: Tennis

25 Jun 2019 20:12

TMP402 wrote:
the delgados wrote:I just learned that two-time Grand Slam winner Naomi Osaka sent a terse Twitter message saying she is ditching her coach. No explanation was provided.
Seems weird that she would suddenly part ways with the coach who helped her win two consecutive grand slams and rocket to number 1 in the world.
I know there are some people here who know a lot about the sport and am wondering if they have any opinion or knowledge why she ditched him.
Some are suggesting something to do with PEDs, but it is all speculation at this point. Obviously there could be any number of reasons, but the situation is odd.


I heard a different rumour which is that she wants/wanted to start a family with her man but her team opposed her doing so, which explains her dip in form and changes in her team.


The conjecture over Osaka is just that - conjecture and not very convincing conjecture at that. She was just knocked off as number 1 I think that might explain her terse Twitter post and dissatisfaction with her coach.

Osaka would be one of the least suspicious in women's tennis IMO. Then we have new world number 1 and French Open champ Ashleigh Barty - does not look suspicious either. Some of these women actually have skill with a racket I think that still counts for something?
Cookster15
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Re: Tennis

25 Jun 2019 21:05

Cookster15 wrote:
TMP402 wrote:
the delgados wrote:I just learned that two-time Grand Slam winner Naomi Osaka sent a terse Twitter message saying she is ditching her coach. No explanation was provided.
Seems weird that she would suddenly part ways with the coach who helped her win two consecutive grand slams and rocket to number 1 in the world.
I know there are some people here who know a lot about the sport and am wondering if they have any opinion or knowledge why she ditched him.
Some are suggesting something to do with PEDs, but it is all speculation at this point. Obviously there could be any number of reasons, but the situation is odd.


I heard a different rumour which is that she wants/wanted to start a family with her man but her team opposed her doing so, which explains her dip in form and changes in her team.


The conjecture over Osaka is just that - conjecture and not very convincing conjecture at that. She was just knocked off as number 1 I think that might explain her terse Twitter post and dissatisfaction with her coach.

Osaka would be one of the least suspicious in women's tennis IMO. Then we have new world number 1 and French Open champ Ashleigh Barty - does not look suspicious either. Some of these women actually have skill with a racket I think that still counts for something?


Be careful with so controversial and unpopular opinions in this thread.
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Re: Tennis

25 Jun 2019 21:16

Cookster15 wrote:Osaka would be one of the least suspicious in women's tennis IMO. Then we have new world number 1 and French Open champ Ashleigh Barty - does not look suspicious either. Some of these women actually have skill with a racket I think that still counts for something?


Sort of makes her the shortest giant, no?
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Re: Tennis

25 Jun 2019 21:28

Cookster15 wrote:
TMP402 wrote:
the delgados wrote:I just learned that two-time Grand Slam winner Naomi Osaka sent a terse Twitter message saying she is ditching her coach. No explanation was provided.
Seems weird that she would suddenly part ways with the coach who helped her win two consecutive grand slams and rocket to number 1 in the world.
I know there are some people here who know a lot about the sport and am wondering if they have any opinion or knowledge why she ditched him.
Some are suggesting something to do with PEDs, but it is all speculation at this point. Obviously there could be any number of reasons, but the situation is odd.


I heard a different rumour which is that she wants/wanted to start a family with her man but her team opposed her doing so, which explains her dip in form and changes in her team.


The conjecture over Osaka is just that - conjecture and not very convincing conjecture at that. She was just knocked off as number 1 I think that might explain her terse Twitter post and dissatisfaction with her coach.

Osaka would be one of the least suspicious in women's tennis IMO. Then we have new world number 1 and French Open champ Ashleigh Barty - does not look suspicious either. Some of these women actually have skill with a racket I think that still counts for something?


Except the tweet and split was in January/February and she's only just lost the number one ranking. Any other theories?
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Re: Tennis

25 Jun 2019 21:37

wansteadimp wrote:
Cookster15 wrote:
TMP402 wrote:
the delgados wrote:I just learned that two-time Grand Slam winner Naomi Osaka sent a terse Twitter message saying she is ditching her coach. No explanation was provided.
Seems weird that she would suddenly part ways with the coach who helped her win two consecutive grand slams and rocket to number 1 in the world.
I know there are some people here who know a lot about the sport and am wondering if they have any opinion or knowledge why she ditched him.
Some are suggesting something to do with PEDs, but it is all speculation at this point. Obviously there could be any number of reasons, but the situation is odd.


I heard a different rumour which is that she wants/wanted to start a family with her man but her team opposed her doing so, which explains her dip in form and changes in her team.


The conjecture over Osaka is just that - conjecture and not very convincing conjecture at that. She was just knocked off as number 1 I think that might explain her terse Twitter post and dissatisfaction with her coach.

Osaka would be one of the least suspicious in women's tennis IMO. Then we have new world number 1 and French Open champ Ashleigh Barty - does not look suspicious either. Some of these women actually have skill with a racket I think that still counts for something?


Except the tweet and split was in January/February and she's only just lost the number one ranking. Any other theories?


Okay I didn't bother checking when the tweet was. But so what. I just don't think Osaka is any more suspicious than any other women in the top 20. As I said and you ignored in tennis if you have poor skill and hand eye coordination dope ain't gonna help you.
Cookster15
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Re: Tennis

25 Jun 2019 21:52

Some of these women have skill with a tennis racket (qm) Just some, huh.
Now I am curious to know which pro tennis players have no skill whatsoever.
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Re: Tennis

25 Jun 2019 22:36

Cookster15 wrote:Okay I didn't bother checking when the tweet was. But so what. I just don't think Osaka is any more suspicious than any other women in the top 20. As I said and you ignored in tennis if you have poor skill and hand eye coordination dope ain't gonna help you.


Come on. Obviously no one is suggesting anything of the sort.

Doping can increase strength, stamina, and recovery––or all 3 depending on what you're doing. Seems fairly obvious why these benefits would offer massive advantages.

To say a tennis player is no "...more suspicious than any other women in the top 20" means nothing. Is there anyone in the top 20 who isn't at least suspicious? I mean, come on. Many of the top 20 are not only suspicious but laughably, obviously, doping.

There are arguments in favor of her cleanliness to be made. Keep trying.
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Re: Tennis

26 Jun 2019 19:16

red_flanders wrote:
Cookster15 wrote:Okay I didn't bother checking when the tweet was. But so what. I just don't think Osaka is any more suspicious than any other women in the top 20. As I said and you ignored in tennis if you have poor skill and hand eye coordination dope ain't gonna help you.
Doping can increase strength, stamina, and recovery––or all 3 depending on what you're doing. Seems fairly obvious why these benefits would offer massive advantages


I just drop in read loose logic not supported by facts or evidence and make a comment. Logic, reason and facts I don't respond to. If posters would provide valid evidence that Osaka shows suspicious strength, stamina, and recovery I would not bother commenting on this thread.

My bottom line on tennis is this: I am suspicious of Tennis, but Naomi Osaka is probably one of the least suspicious. When has Osaka displayed suspicious strength, stamina, and recovery? Some people might say that by bringing her up is deliberate deflection from the real problems.
Cookster15
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Re: Tennis

26 Jun 2019 20:04

Cookster15 wrote:
I just drop in read loose logic not supported by facts or evidence and make a comment. Logic, reason and facts I don't respond to. If posters would provide valid evidence that Osaka shows suspicious strength, stamina, and recovery I would not bother commenting on this thread.

My bottom line on tennis is this: I am suspicious of Tennis, but Naomi Osaka is probably one of the least suspicious. When has Osaka displayed suspicious strength, stamina, and recovery? Some people might say that by bringing her up is deliberate deflection from the real problems.


Same as I did with your post. We don't need straw men to defeat poor logic, we need good logic.

I don't have an argument with your assessment of Osaka, rather with the idea that doping won't improve skill. No one is suggesting it will and it's irrelevant to the question of doping. People used to argue that about baseball all the time, when it was rife with doping. It's a nonsensical position.
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