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The Clinic is the only place on Cyclingnews where you can discuss doping-related issues. Ask questions, discuss positives or improvements to procedures.

Moderators: Irondan, Eshnar, Red Rick, Valv.Piti, Pricey_sky, Tonton, King Boonen

Re:

29 May 2017 16:31

Zebadeedee wrote:A piece of tennis fiction but strongly claimed as based on the actualitè - "Brunt said that during his research “people in a position to know” told him that the use of performance-enhancing drugs was “prevalent” in tennis.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/25/sports/tennis/douglas-brunt-trophy-son.html?action=click&contentCollection=sports&region=rank&module=package&version=highlights&contentPlacement=1&pgtype=sectionfront

The ITF's Miller remains in denial about the use of silent bans in tennis. Both the ITF and Wimbledon acted complicitly in going along with lies Cilic told to account for his sudden withdrawal from Wimbledon in 2013 after winning his first round match. He claimed a knee injury whereas he'd been caught doping. Wimbledon allowed all this nonsense about his knee to be published knowing full well it was a pack of lies. When Agassi was caught doping, the ATP hushed the matter up completely. Agassi wasn't even banned!


It's hilarious that the journalist who wrote that article is named Stewart Miller :lol:
arcus
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07 Jun 2017 11:20

Djokovic playing like a donkey....since parting with Becker he looks a totally different player. His pop out, staring, amphetamine eyes have gone and he looks out of breath after points.

Nice to see the Djokovic of old.....unlike the duracell rabbit we have seen for the past few dominating years.
User avatar Cycle Chic
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07 Jun 2017 12:18

Looks like Djokovic is no longer responding to the juice; Murray may be on the same path.

Nadal, on the other hand...
DanielSong39
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07 Jun 2017 12:22

It's impossible to take tennis seriously when the most obvious offenders (Serena Williams, Federer, Nadal) are being given a free pass.

Maybe I should stick to wrestling... at least they're up front about everything.
DanielSong39
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Re:

07 Jun 2017 14:34

DanielSong39 wrote:It's impossible to take tennis seriously when the most obvious offenders (Serena Williams, Federer, Nadal) are being given a free pass.

Maybe I should stick to wrestling... at least they're up front about everything.


I grew up in the U.S. loving the WWF and while I don't watch WWE, I still appreciate the fact that everyone accepts it as entertainment, not sport. I choose to overlook the ongoing doping in cycling and just enjoy the spectacle, but it would still be nice to just see them ride cleanly.
nayr497
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07 Jun 2017 18:33

Unfortunately even wrestling is tainted, and im not talking about the obvious fakeness. I actually really admire wrestlers since its possibly the hardest physical sport in the world and unlike actors who get 50 million takes at every scenes in their cushy studios, they have to perform the act 1 shot, while going from motel to motel.

But when it comes to the doping thing, Vince is a liar and a fraud. Lord knows how they got away with the steroid trials. And whats even worse, his daughter Steph then went and did a full paula radcliffe and compared the "persecution" of her father by the feds on the steroid thing with 9/11 :o :o :o

https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/comments/3kk0v4/stephanie_mcmahon_comparing_vinces_steroid_trial/

* referring to paula radcliffe saying she was a victim of the Paris massacre in 2015 because evil people just like terrorists were accusing her of doping :cool:

Both of them scum.
User avatar The Hitch
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09 Jun 2017 09:05

I've not watched tennis for a while but caught the end of the Murray Vs. Nishikori match. I might be off base but Nishikori looked like what you might expect someone to be able to achieve with the usual level of grey area sportsperson preparation. His speed and ground game come at an expense of a monster serve, while the rest of the top guys seem to possess both. He's had to choose one or the other. Or is the general opinion that he's as bad as Murray, Djokovic, Nadal, Federer, Wawrinka etc?
Vincenzo Nibali:
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Reduce your carbon footprint, ride steel.
User avatar King Boonen
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Re:

09 Jun 2017 12:23

King Boonen wrote:I've not watched tennis for a while but caught the end of the Murray Vs. Nishikori match. I might be off base but Nishikori looked like what you might expect someone to be able to achieve with the usual level of grey area sportsperson preparation. His speed and ground game come at an expense of a monster serve, while the rest of the top guys seem to possess both. He's had to choose one or the other. Or is the general opinion that he's as bad as Murray, Djokovic, Nadal, Federer, Wawrinka etc?

for what it's worth, Victor Conte claims to have worked with Michael Chang, Nishikori's current coach.
(also claims to have worked with Lendl, Rusedski, and Sharapova, all FWIW)
link: https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php?threads/victor-conte-and-doping-in-tennis-lendl-rusedski-chang-and-sharapova.443529/

More generally, I'd certainly not be surprised to learn that Nishikori dopes less than guys like Nadal, Fed, Djoker, and Murray. But I doubt it's a matter of morale or fair play ethics.

I'm very pessismistic about tennis and doping. I'd argue you won't get into the top hundred if you only do gray area stuff.
It's arguably one of the most competitive and physically demanding sports around. And not even talking about the rewards yet.

A grey area athlete reaching the semis of a slam only works if you think EPO, steroids and HGH do not make all the difference. I think they do.
sniper
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09 Jun 2017 18:51

I hope you enjoyed the latest exhibition.
Wawrinka's transformation has been one of the greatest ever seen in the sport; from outside the top ten to a 3-time (4-time?) Slam champion, starting from the age of 29!
Absolutely nothing needs to be said about Nadal.
DanielSong39
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10 Jun 2017 12:07

Halep running around like a duracell battery also
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Re:

11 Jun 2017 01:23

Cycle Chic wrote:Halep running around like a duracell battery also

Her battery ran out in the middle of the second set. Should've gone with Energizer.
DanielSong39
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Re: Re:

11 Jun 2017 07:26

sniper wrote:
King Boonen wrote:I've not watched tennis for a while but caught the end of the Murray Vs. Nishikori match. I might be off base but Nishikori looked like what you might expect someone to be able to achieve with the usual level of grey area sportsperson preparation. His speed and ground game come at an expense of a monster serve, while the rest of the top guys seem to possess both. He's had to choose one or the other. Or is the general opinion that he's as bad as Murray, Djokovic, Nadal, Federer, Wawrinka etc?

for what it's worth, Victor Conte claims to have worked with Michael Chang, Nishikori's current coach.
(also claims to have worked with Lendl, Rusedski, and Sharapova, all FWIW)
link: https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php?threads/victor-conte-and-doping-in-tennis-lendl-rusedski-chang-and-sharapova.443529/

More generally, I'd certainly not be surprised to learn that Nishikori dopes less than guys like Nadal, Fed, Djoker, and Murray. But I doubt it's a matter of morale or fair play ethics.

I'm very pessismistic about tennis and doping. I'd argue you won't get into the top hundred if you only do gray area stuff.
It's arguably one of the most competitive and physically demanding sports around. And not even talking about the rewards yet.

A grey area athlete reaching the semis of a slam only works if you think EPO, steroids and HGH do not make all the difference. I think they do.


Fair enough, thanks for the answer.
Vincenzo Nibali:
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Reduce your carbon footprint, ride steel.
User avatar King Boonen
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11 Jun 2017 15:36

Nadal strikes! I guess Federer wins Wimbledon and US Open and we're back to 2007 again?

What can I say, have a little laugh, relax, and enjoy the show.
DanielSong39
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11 Jun 2017 19:22

Who needs a senior tour when you have players well into their 30s consistently winning in a sport where players used to peak at 27-28 and retire at 30-31.

Most blatant dope fest since eastern european athletics in the 70s.
tyson766
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Re:

11 Jun 2017 20:09

tyson766 wrote:Who needs a senior tour when you have players well into their 30s consistently winning in a sport where players used to peak at 27-28 and retire at 30-31.

Most blatant dope fest since eastern european athletics in the 70s.


Several players peaked and retired even earlier than that in the past. McEnroe peaked at age 20-25, retired at 33. Borg from 18-25, retired at 26. Connors and Lendl did peak a little later and had success in their late 20's and early 30's.

I mean, what we're seeing today is like watching a cartoon. But I should have guessed that after seeing Djokovic/Nadal/Murray/Federer run around for 5 hours and show no visible signs of fatigue during the match or in their next match a couple of days later.
DanielSong39
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Re: Tennis

12 Jun 2017 14:43

Djokovic went from holding all 4 gs's to holding none, in 12 months.

Nadal if I understand correctly, just tied Connors for the 11th oldest grand slam win, at exactly 31 years and 9 days (both).
Wawrinka US Open is 8th at 31 years 6 months, older than Samprass was when he retired.
Murray is the youngest current holder of a Grand Slam, winning it at 29 years and 2 months, enough for 25th of all time.
Federers is 4th all time at 35 years 5 months.

This is all time of course. The top 3 are Ken Rosewall in the early 1970's and a bunch of other 70's people. If we limit it to the era of non wooden rackets Federer is 1st, Wawrinka 3rd, Nadal 4th and Murray 14th.
(2012 Federer, 5 years ago already, is 5th)

At the moment all current Grand slam holders are over 30. Only 2 people currently alive are under 30 and have a grand slam. Both turn 29 in September.
User avatar The Hitch
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12 Jun 2017 15:31

Arguing over Federer vs Nadal vs Djokovic is the rough equivalent of arguing over Superman vs Batman vs Spider-Man these days...
DanielSong39
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Re:

12 Jun 2017 15:34

tyson766 wrote:Who needs a senior tour when you have players well into their 30s consistently winning in a sport where players used to peak at 27-28 and retire at 30-31.

Most blatant dope fest since eastern european athletics in the 70s.


And the sad part is that the players were doping back then, too. I guess Agassi was the pioneer of the "new era", winning the majority of his slams in the second half of his career, at an age where most of his competitors were on the decline.
DanielSong39
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Re: Tennis

12 Jun 2017 17:57

Its old but the daily mail making sure we know sport is truly now just a business.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/tennis/article-4590000/Maria-Sharapova-injury-blow-Aegon-Classic.html
noddy69
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Re: Re:

13 Jun 2017 01:47

DanielSong39 wrote:
tyson766 wrote:
I guess Agassi was the pioneer of the "new era", winning the majority of his slams in the second half of his career, at an age where most of his competitors were on the decline.


In some regards, yes, Agassi via Gil's secret shakes, was the first to come back with a vengeance as he aged, but I'm guessing Lendl was probably the first male to really enhance his game via ped's. Mere speculation mind you.
robow7
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