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Tennis

The Clinic is the only place on Cyclingnews where you can discuss doping-related issues. Ask questions, discuss positives or improvements to procedures.

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Tennis

19 Aug 2012 07:07

Hi - new to this forum. Doping in sport is something that particularly interests me. I just wondered how you cycling fans feel about tennis.

Many of the very biggest names in cycling have been caught doping - but in tennis a top player has never been caught. Looking at the doping statistics the top guys are tested out of competition perhaps no more than once per year. In women's some are never tested - the Williams sisters had no out-of-competition tests in 2010 and 2011.

I watch the game I love and frankly no longer believe it. Top players missing chunks of the season "injured" and coming back better than ever. 4hour+ matches with guys looking as strong at the end as at the beginning.

I'm convinced doping is rife in top tennis and that the testing is a joke. What do you think?
Bicycle
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19 Aug 2012 07:12

Anti Doping in tennis seems a joke too - this site has the details nailed

http://tennishasasteroidproblem.blogspot.co.uk/

I think there is a tennis thread somewhere, if not there is certainly a Nadal one (who I see is curiously out of the US Open).
chemikal pedlar
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19 Aug 2012 07:14

An equal amount of doping would likely benefit you less in tennis than in Cycling because it's easier to dope for performance in primarily physiological sports as cycling. If you gain less then likely less doping is taking place. Of cause that's assuming an equal amount of doping, and as you say there's much less testing in tennis which mean that they can get away with using more.

In summery I suspect you're right. When there's hardly any testing it's difficult to impossible to compete clean.
Cerberus
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19 Aug 2012 07:19

Reality is most tennis fans are like most sports fans - absolutely blinkered and ignorant of the thought that this might be taking place. As tennis doesn't have the history that cycling does, there's no reason for them to suspect otherwise. It's a blinkered view, but one that most sports never deviate from.
Cavalier
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19 Aug 2012 08:34

Does anyone have any more information on the supposed existence of a "X strikes and you're out" rule? In that players can refuse to submit to dope tests - but only a maximum of X times. So basically a player can dope out of competition and if a tester turns up refuse to take the test. But once a player has refused a certain number of tests he better come off the juice or risk getting caught.
Bicycle
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19 Aug 2012 08:43

Bicycle wrote:Hi - new to this forum. Doping in sport is something that particularly interests me. I just wondered how you cycling fans feel about tennis.

Many of the very biggest names in cycling have been caught doping - but in tennis a top player has never been caught. Looking at the doping statistics the top guys are tested out of competition perhaps no more than once per year. In women's some are never tested - the Williams sisters had no out-of-competition tests in 2010 and 2011.

I watch the game I love and frankly no longer believe it. Top players missing chunks of the season "injured" and coming back better than ever. 4hour+ matches with guys looking as strong at the end as at the beginning.

I'm convinced doping is rife in top tennis and that the testing is a joke. What do you think?

Welcome To The Clinic. Here we think tennis is one of the biggest joke. You should search a thread by Moose called "Tennis is ridiculous"
Testing the bounds of reality.
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19 Aug 2012 09:11

Just been looking at the ITF doping rules

Where, in any eighteen-month period, a Player in the
International Registered Testing Pool is declared to have three
Filing Failures, or three Missed Tests, or any combination of
Filing Failures and Missed Tests adding up to three in total,
whether under this Programme, or (in accordance with Article
11.1.5 of the International Standard for Testing) under the rules
of any other relevant Anti-Doping Organisation, then (save only
where Article 11.6.5(a) of the International Standard for
Testing provides otherwise) the matter shall be referred to the
Review Board to determine, in accordance with Article 7.5.2 of
this Programme and Article 11.6.5 of the International Standard
for Testing, whether the Player has a case to answer under
Article 2.4.


This seems ridiculously easy to get around. Declare bogus whereabouts and this gets you past 2 doping tests - just make sure you're available for the third. Does anyone disagree with my interpretation here?

This would explain dips in form for top players who sitting on 2 "strikes" have to lay off the juice for a while until their strikes counter gets reset to zero.
Bicycle
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19 Aug 2012 09:29

Bicycle wrote:Just been looking at the ITF doping rules



This seems ridiculously easy to get around. Declare bogus whereabouts and this gets you past 2 doping tests - just make sure you're available for the third. Does anyone disagree with my interpretation here?

This would explain dips in form for top players who sitting on 2 "strikes" have to lay off the juice for a while until their strikes counter gets reset to zero.


Given they on average get tested OOC once a year, yep pretty easy to get round.
mb2612
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19 Aug 2012 11:58

Agassi, and i am grateful for it, proved to the world that if any top tennis star tests positive, they will cover it up anyway.
The Hitch: Winner 2013 Vuelta cq game. Winner, Velorooms prediction game 2012, 2013. 2nd all time cq rankings.
The Father of Clean Cycling, Christophe Bassons wrote:When I look at cycling today, I get the impression that history is repeating itself: riders who are supposed to be rouleurs are climbing passes at the front of the race, and those who are supposed to be climbers are riding time trials at more than 50 kilometres per hour.

The story is beginning again, just as it did 14 years ago


journalist with integrity.
User avatar The Hitch
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19 Aug 2012 12:24

the picture for tennis is a bit similar to that of football.

typically, the type of doping stories that arouse some public and media interest involve recreational stuff like marihuana (Caprtiati) and cocaine (Gasquet).

As for Agassi, I assume his program involved more than just chrystal meth, but he wisely admitted to chrystal meth only. (btw. Does anybody know how effective CM actually is for e.g. tennis or football players?)

Petr Korda once got busted for nandrolon.
sniper
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19 Aug 2012 13:02

sniper wrote:the picture for tennis is a bit similar to that of football.

typically, the type of doping stories that arouse some public and media interest involve recreational stuff like marihuana (Caprtiati) and cocaine (Gasquet).

As for Agassi, I assume his program involved more than just chrystal meth, but he wisely admitted to chrystal meth only. (btw. Does anybody know how effective CM actually is for e.g. tennis or football players?)


The tennis media loved the Hingis/Gasquet cocaine busts - cleverly confusing the issues of PEDs and recreational drugs to give the impression that tennis is tough on drugs.

Tennis is certainly tough on drug use - unless they enhance your performance.
Bicycle
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19 Aug 2012 13:06

Bicycle wrote:The tennis media loved the Hingis/Gasquet cocaine busts - cleverly confusing the issues of PEDs and recreational drugs to give the impression that tennis is tough on drugs.

Tennis is certainly tough on drug use - unless they enhance your performance.


hehe, to the point.
sniper
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20 Aug 2012 04:34

greg rusedksi too

But Odesnik of the US out of Soufrica, seems to have a Ricco like rep in the ATP with fellow Americans. ouch
http://www.sbnation.com/tennis/2011/8/4/2342638/wayne-odesnik-ban-hgh-human-growth-hormone-comeback-suspension-atp
Wayne Odesnik, The Most Hated Man In Tennis


Kordr
rusedski

scapegoats. did Agassi do a runner on a surprise test at Australian Open in the 90's? Was when he was with Graf and had a child.
"Hitler … didn't even sink to using chemical weapons."
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20 Aug 2012 08:07

blackcat wrote:greg rusedksi too

But Odesnik of the US out of Soufrica, seems to have a Ricco like rep in the ATP with fellow Americans. ouch
http://www.sbnation.com/tennis/2011/8/4/2342638/wayne-odesnik-ban-hgh-human-growth-hormone-comeback-suspension-atp
Wayne Odesnik, The Most Hated Man In Tennis


Kordr
rusedski

scapegoats. did Agassi do a runner on a surprise test at Australian Open in the 90's? Was when he was with Graf and had a child.


as for rusedski, he clearly had to make up for a lack of natural talent. but a real pitty he got scapegoated. he was with distance one of the more interesting guys out there.

Agassi doing a Beltran back in the 90s? It would be cool if we had some footage of that :D
sniper
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20 Aug 2012 08:45

It seems that unless you're incredibly stupid you're not going to get caught. As long as you come off the juice in time for competition you're laughing.
Bicycle
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20 Aug 2012 08:53

I thought Murrays annihalation of Federer in the Olympics was well dodgey - never seen Murray perform like that ever - the usual tired look wasnt there and he was jumping up and down like Nadal when receiving serve. Looked like he was jacked.
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20 Aug 2012 08:53

Bicycle wrote:It seems that unless you're incredibly stupid you're not going to get caught. As long as you come off the juice in time for competition you're laughing.


I would suggest that certain tennis stars take them during competition and even during matches. The Williams sisters have had some amazing performances after loo breaks.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Tennis Federation is similar to UCI.

All top money sports are corrupt.
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20 Aug 2012 09:02

Cycle Chic wrote:I thought Murrays annihalation of Federer in the Olympics was well dodgey - never seen Murray perform like that ever - the usual tired look wasnt there and he was jumping up and down like Nadal when receiving serve. Looked like he was jacked.


I'm not sure what was dodgier: murray's performance or Federer's underperformance. (must admit I haven't seen the game)

We saw other tennis players (who were in very good shape before the Games) deliberately avoiding the Games (e.g. Haas, Kohlschreiber, Mardy Fish and a couple of others), apparently to avoid the more stringent drug controls.
It wouldn't surprise me though if murray knew beforehand he wasn't going to be tested.
sniper
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20 Aug 2012 09:12

sniper wrote:I'm not sure what was dodgier: murray's performance or Federer's underperformance. (must admit I haven't seen the game)

We saw other tennis players (who were in very good shape before the Games) deliberately avoiding the Games (e.g. Haas, Kohlschreiber, Mardy Fish and a couple of others), apparently to avoid the more stringent drug controls.
It wouldn't surprise me though if murray knew beforehand he wasn't going to be tested.


I think the Olympic final was mostly down to Federer's poor play. He'd had that marathon semi with Del Potro where he had to serve to save the match in a dozen or so straight games - that must have been mentally exhausting.
Bicycle
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20 Aug 2012 11:09

Cycle Chic wrote:I thought Murrays annihalation of Federer in the Olympics was well dodgey - never seen Murray perform like that ever - the usual tired look wasnt there and he was jumping up and down like Nadal when receiving serve. Looked like he was jacked.


It was said that Murray was too fragile and prone to injury to make it big time, so he went away and got muscled up. Obviously he achieved the latter through lots of gym work!
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