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Tennis

The Clinic is the only place on Cyclingnews where you can discuss doping-related issues. Ask questions, discuss positives or improvements to procedures.

Moderators: Irondan, Eshnar, Red Rick, Valv.Piti, Pricey_sky, Tonton, King Boonen

Re: Re:

07 Aug 2017 12:44

Zebadeedee wrote:
arcus wrote:The problem with the concept of a silent ban is that it would require WADA complicity.

A player doesn't have to positive test to be able to conclude that in all probability he or she had been doping.


In all probability, all your favorite tennis players are doping. However, it's still possible to find the sport entertaining even knowing that everyone is doping and some of the matches are fixed.

At the end of the day either you enjoy the show or you don't.
DanielSong39
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07 Aug 2017 16:30

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/40854182

Errani's mother had been using the drug as part of her treatment for breast cancer and had left pills on a kitchen worktop where food was prepared.

A tribunal panel accepted the player probably ingested the substance through accidental food contamination.

But it was ruled Errani, now ranked 98, could have done more to protect herself.

Letrozole increases lean body mass and was banned by the World Anti-Doping Agency (Wada) over concerns it was being abused by bodybuilders.

An independent tribunal, appointed by the International Tennis Federation, said there was no evidence it would enhance the performance of an elite tennis player
Cake
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07 Aug 2017 18:05

Errani could have been picked up and banned years ago were the ITF serious about anti-doping. This is a two month slap on the wrist for something apparently indicative of other substances being used.
Zebadeedee
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Re:

07 Aug 2017 20:08

Cake wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/40854182

Errani's mother had been using the drug as part of her treatment for breast cancer and had left pills on a kitchen worktop where food was prepared.

A tribunal panel accepted the player probably ingested the substance through accidental food contamination.

But it was ruled Errani, now ranked 98, could have done more to protect herself.

Letrozole increases lean body mass and was banned by the World Anti-Doping Agency (Wada) over concerns it was being abused by bodybuilders.

An independent tribunal, appointed by the International Tennis Federation, said there was no evidence it would enhance the performance of an elite tennis player


Jesus wept........... :rolleyes:

There's no evidence that that Letrozole would enhance the performance of an elite tennis player, because it's never been studied in that context, JUST LIKE ALL THE OTHER SUBSTANCES ON THE PROHIBITED LIST.

Lack of evidence is not proof of lack of efficacy.
arcus
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07 Aug 2017 20:20

Indeed the insults to the brain are particularly strong here, both from Errani and ITF.

Well said Arcus 're lack of research.
sniper
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07 Aug 2017 20:47

"My mothers chemo fell into my tortellini"........ I thought nothing would top "I absorbed my twin in the womb", but this one comes close.

Reading the ITF document made me face-palm. Please tell me WADA will challenge this. Of note, this is (to my knowledge) the first tennis doping adjudication by "Sports Resolutions", a UK based company that have been contracted by the ITF to independently conduct it's anti-doping tribunals. I'm not so sure this is an auspicious beginning.

Compare this to the Sharapova case. IMPO, on balance of probability, Sharapova kept taking meldonium (for physical optimization rather than legitimate medical indications), without realizing that it had newly been included on the prohibited list. She got 15 months on appeal. In contrast, Errani, who we know consulted with doping doctor Del Moral, gets 2 months for testing positive for a substance that elevates androgenic steroids in a female... Something is not right here.

LOL @ another tennis player playing the "It was all my mother's fault" card.
arcus
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07 Aug 2017 21:11

Yeah. Its a case of laugh or cry.

Good point comparing it to sharapowa.
Certainly can be interpreted as another anti-russia decision.
sniper
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07 Aug 2017 21:37

Pasta are very expensive not to throw them away by a such so poor family, pro tennis player gets very low payement.
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Re: Tennis

08 Aug 2017 00:30

The sad part about all this is that Errani was a really good player at one point; I think she was in the top 10 for a while and is surely a millionaire several times over.

She's 30 years old and several years past her prime. No sense in continuing if you ask me.

Then again, there's always the slight hope of finding the right sauce and achieving a miraculous career renaissance. It's not like we haven't seen it before.
DanielSong39
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08 Aug 2017 02:38

Silent band exist, look at Agassi and his crystal meth

Also, I thought you didn't get banned for weed? At least that is what Kyrgios said
Brullnux
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Re:

08 Aug 2017 16:21

arcus wrote:"My mothers chemo fell into my tortellini"........ I thought nothing would top "I absorbed my twin in the womb", but this one comes close.

Reading the ITF document made me face-palm. Please tell me WADA will challenge this. Of note, this is (to my knowledge) the first tennis doping adjudication by "Sports Resolutions", a UK based company that have been contracted by the ITF to independently conduct it's anti-doping tribunals. I'm not so sure this is an auspicious beginning.

Compare this to the Sharapova case. IMPO, on balance of probability, Sharapova kept taking meldonium (for physical optimization rather than legitimate medical indications), without realizing that it had newly been included on the prohibited list. She got 15 months on appeal. In contrast, Errani, who we know consulted with doping doctor Del Moral, gets 2 months for testing positive for a substance that elevates androgenic steroids in a female... Something is not right here.

LOL @ another tennis player playing the "It was all my mother's fault" card.


You can't have it both ways - There has been a strong push for sporting organisations to use independent tribunals or National Tribunals to hear Anti-Doping matters - There is no point crying if you don't like the decision, and my guess is you haven't read transcripts of the case - WADA can appeal and sent it to CAS - Though I have more faith in Independent Tribunals than CAS which is a cesspool of cronyism, favoritism and poor adjudication of cases.
yaco
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Re:

08 Aug 2017 16:22

Brullnux wrote:Silent band exist, look at Agassi and his crystal meth

Also, I thought you didn't get banned for weed? At least that is what Kyrgios said


Illicit drugs are only positive on game day.
yaco
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Re: Re:

08 Aug 2017 18:45

yaco wrote:
arcus wrote:"My mothers chemo fell into my tortellini"........ I thought nothing would top "I absorbed my twin in the womb", but this one comes close.

Reading the ITF document made me face-palm. Please tell me
WADA will challenge this. Of note, this is (to my knowledge) the first tennis doping adjudication by "Sports Resolutions", a UK based company that have been contracted by the ITF to independently conduct it's anti-doping tribunals. I'm not so sure this is an auspicious beginning.

Compare this to the Sharapova case. IMPO, on balance of probability, Sharapova kept taking meldonium (for physical optimization rather than legitimate medical indications), without realizing that it had newly been included on the prohibited list. She got 15 months on appeal. In contrast, Errani, who we know consulted with doping doctor Del Moral, gets 2 months for testing positive for a substance that elevates androgenic steroids in a female... Something is not right here.

LOL @ another tennis player playing the "It was all my mother's fault" card.


You can't have it both ways - There has been a strong push for sporting organisations to use independent tribunals or National Tribunals to hear Anti-Doping matters - There is no point crying if you don't like the decision, and my guess is you haven't read transcripts of the case - WADA can appeal and sent it to CAS - Though I have more faith in Independent Tribunals than CAS which is a cesspool of cronyism, favoritism and poor adjudication of cases.


I did read every word of the transcript before posting. I will say I felt like giving up when I got to the part where Errani's team provide "evidence that the aromatase-inhibitor pill dissolves in tortellini meat mixtures at room temperature" :rolleyes:. This 'evidence' was, in fairness, rejected by the tribunal.

I also understand the desirability of independent arbitration.. That said, I 'm entitled to disagree with their decisions, if I question their basis.

Are you buying the tortellini defense? From the transcript.....
The Athlete must positively prove how the Prohibited Substance entered their body and not merely speculate as to which of a number of possible means exist and then further speculate as to which appears
the most likely of those possibilities. To meet this burden, the Player must prove how the letrozole got into her system on the balance of probabilities. English law (which governs the TADP and these proceedings) is clear what this means: 'The balance of probability standard means that a court is satisfied an event occurred if the court considers that, on the evidence, the occurrence of an event was more likely than not'.

I'm not. It strikes as the sort of excuse that accused athletes resort to. Let's not forget that Errani had a publicly acknowledged prior-association with an individual notorious for doping athletes.

Again (frustrating for me), the independent tribunal conferred an unusually short period of sanction for an AAF, and in the process stated
However there is no evidence that letrozole would enhance the performance of an elite level tennis player.
. This class of medication affects the raio of androgenic/estrogenic steroids in females. Accepting that 'no proof of performance enhancement in specific-sports' means less culpability, and I contend that you can chuck the WADA prohibited list on a bomb-fire, and tell athletes they can take what they want. I appreciate that it might be contentious if non-steroidal aromatase inhibitors cause clinically significant increases in testosterone in premanopausal females.
Last edited by arcus on 09 Aug 2017 18:23, edited 3 times in total.
arcus
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08 Aug 2017 18:50

Why did the panel not consider the matter of her mother being a pharmacist? This is relevant. They accepted the ITF expert's opinion (over Errani's expert) that the amount discovered could have arisen from doping. Such an obvious line of enquiry then arises considering her mother's profession as pharmacist.

They followed the pills into pasta baloney hook, line and sinker, convinced themselves that Errani's mother would never tell a lie.

Seems the Cilic Gambit (blame your mum for everything) with a Lance-style cancer shield as background, provides a pretty potent defence and avoids the awkward questions.
Last edited by Zebadeedee on 08 Aug 2017 20:50, edited 1 time in total.
Zebadeedee
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Re: Tennis

08 Aug 2017 20:23

This woman's big year was 2012. Following exposure of her links with Del Moral, she then severed ties. One imagines she engages in marginal gains doping just to stay on the tour these days.
buckle
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09 Aug 2017 13:56

The irony is the ITF argued for a four year ban for Sharapova but did the opposite with Errani - Anyway CAS has a poor track record in arbitrating doping cases - The whole arbitration system is broken.
yaco
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09 Aug 2017 15:05

Probably all decided beforehand, with the dog and pony show just for decency's sake.
Zebadeedee
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20 Aug 2017 07:05

David 'chainsmoker' Ferrer's comeback is quite unexpected. Wonder what's up with that
Kwibus wrote:So much quesions they have. Answers they will never get.
So why questions? If no answers?
-Kwibus, one of the great philosophers of the 21st century
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Re:

20 Aug 2017 22:08

Red Rick wrote:David 'chainsmoker' Ferrer's comeback is quite unexpected. Wonder what's up with that


I've heard that smoking increases red blood cell counts, so maybe David "the chimney" is on to something.

p.s. This is the first I've heard about Ferrer's smoking habits. It's amazing to think the guy who smokes can cover the court with water bug-like speed.
It would be so cool to see him smoke a dart during court changes.
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Re: Tennis

05 Sep 2017 06:37

It has been disgusting watching the love fest for Maria Sharapova in the U.S. television coverage of the U.S. Open. Poor Maria was just an unwitting victim of an unintentional oversight when she forgot to check that meldonium had been added to the banned list. Nevermind the fact that she had been taking the drug for 10 years under what are at best sketchy medical grounds.
Blakeslee
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