Log in:  

Register

Tennis

The Clinic is the only place on Cyclingnews where you can discuss doping-related issues. Ask questions, discuss positives or improvements to procedures.

Moderators: Eshnar, King Boonen, Red Rick, Pricey_sky

Re: Tennis

08 Sep 2018 21:59

Parker wrote:About eight years ago I talked an expert in physiology who used tennis as an example as how technique can be important to longevity. He used tennis as an example. He said Federer's style was low impact and that he could play decently until he was 40, but Nadal would struggle to win after 30 because his knees would fail. He was right.


Few tennis players have won more Grand Slams than Nadal after they turned 30.

He was not right.
User avatar El Pistolero
Veteran
 
Posts: 16,255
Joined: 16 Jul 2010 21:53

Re: Tennis

08 Sep 2018 22:10

El Pistolero wrote:
Parker wrote:About eight years ago I talked an expert in physiology who used tennis as an example as how technique can be important to longevity. He used tennis as an example. He said Federer's style was low impact and that he could play decently until he was 40, but Nadal would struggle to win after 30 because his knees would fail. He was right.


Few tennis players have won more Grand Slams than Nadal after they turned 30.

He was not right.

He broke down in 2015-16. Then he returned. Was it because Djokovik and Murray declined? Maybe. Was it due to doping? Also maybe.


Tennis had three greats and one very good player all at the same time with little beneath them. That's not doping, it's just circumstance.
Parker
Member
 
Posts: 1,637
Joined: 04 Mar 2011 01:20

Re: Tennis

09 Sep 2018 08:46

Zebadeedee
Junior Member
 
Posts: 157
Joined: 16 Jun 2015 10:51

Re: Tennis

09 Sep 2018 08:57


So you think that skinny persons never get mad?
spiROZE
Newly Registered Member
 
Posts: 8
Joined: 02 Apr 2013 07:44

Re: Tennis

09 Sep 2018 11:28

spiROZE wrote:

So you think that skinny persons never get mad?

Where was a skinny person ever mentioned. Nice straw man. Way to miss the point.

Hope you don't throw a tantrum now :lol:
User avatar veganrob
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2,482
Joined: 29 Aug 2010 23:15
Location: The D

09 Sep 2018 12:27

Sheer roid rage. That jaw would cut through rock.
"I have seen many lean riders in the peloton, but very few Tour winners."
User avatar Pantani Attacks
Member
 
Posts: 898
Joined: 07 Jul 2015 11:39

09 Sep 2018 15:12

Certainly she behaved like she was on something, not sure it was performance-enhancing though. (Clearly not yesterday)

To be fair she has been cheated several times in the past (US Open vs. Capriati, French Open vs. Henin, phantom foot fault vs. Clijsters, clear winner called interference vs. Stosur) but yesterday did not seem to be one of those times.
DanielSong39
Member
 
Posts: 1,053
Joined: 15 Jul 2016 13:03

Re: Tennis

09 Sep 2018 16:11

El Pistolero wrote:
Parker wrote:About eight years ago I talked an expert in physiology who used tennis as an example as how technique can be important to longevity. He used tennis as an example. He said Federer's style was low impact and that he could play decently until he was 40, but Nadal would struggle to win after 30 because his knees would fail. He was right.


Few tennis players have won more Grand Slams than Nadal after they turned 30.

He was not right.

Nadal shot technique is pretty efficient too.
Veni, Vidi, Kirby

I came, I saw, I was dead wrong as per usual
User avatar Red Rick
Administrator
 
Posts: 15,311
Joined: 20 Feb 2012 18:15

Re:

10 Sep 2018 15:25

DanielSong39 wrote:Certainly she behaved like she was on something, not sure it was performance-enhancing though. (Clearly not yesterday)

To be fair she has been cheated several times in the past (US Open vs. Capriati, French Open vs. Henin, phantom foot fault vs. Clijsters, clear winner called interference vs. Stosur) but yesterday did not seem to be one of those times.


She has a valid point. Even McEnroe agreed that he's said much worst and wasn't penalized for it everytime. She simply was outplayed. Her rage was a combination of the frustration over getting beat fairly convincingly in what she likely considers her home court considering her success there, plus the support she receives from the US Open fans and being penalized unfairly in her opinion.
User avatar Angliru
Veteran
 
Posts: 7,310
Joined: 10 Mar 2009 13:30

Re: Re:

10 Sep 2018 15:33

TMP402 wrote:
yaco wrote:Well I am happier to see muscle definition on female players - There are still a few who are out of shape, though this has improved in the last 5 years.


Sure but she's gone from being flabby of face and un-toned of body to being rather muscular over the course of perhaps six months, and most visibly over the last two months or so.


Well she is a professional athlete. It's in their best interest to compete in the best shape that they can achieve and being tone of body can only be a benefit to their success.
User avatar Angliru
Veteran
 
Posts: 7,310
Joined: 10 Mar 2009 13:30

10 Sep 2018 15:56

McEnroe would just insult people. Serena was just completely unhinged, accusing officials of corruption, etc.
Veni, Vidi, Kirby

I came, I saw, I was dead wrong as per usual
User avatar Red Rick
Administrator
 
Posts: 15,311
Joined: 20 Feb 2012 18:15

Re:

10 Sep 2018 18:23

Red Rick wrote:McEnroe would just insult people. Serena was just completely unhinged, accusing officials of corruption, etc.


I believe McEnroe did it all. It was more than just insults. His act was a constant in virtually every big match.
User avatar Angliru
Veteran
 
Posts: 7,310
Joined: 10 Mar 2009 13:30

Re: Tennis

10 Sep 2018 19:57

A lot of tennis pros, male and female, have come out in support of Serena. Blake and Roddick both tweeted they’ve said far worse and not been penalized. Azarenka live-tweeted while this was going on, saying the penalty was BS and that it would never happen in a men’s match. Also, another male pro, forget who, said that if you watched the video, it was clear Serena was not paying any attention to her coach when he said he was trying to signal her.

Serena lost because she was outplayed. And she threw a tantrum because she knew she was being outplayed. There’s no way you can defend behavior like that. But the usual rule in sports is that when the stakes are high, in championships, you act conservatively in calling penalties. You don’t call that borderline pass interference when the Super Bowl may hinge on it; you don’t call a questionable foul at the end of a close NBA finals game. And this call was purely technical; even if she had been violating the rules, and even if other coaches and players didn’t get away with the same thing, it’s hard to argue it was really affecting the outcome of the match.

Also, racist cartoons don’t help:

https://sports.yahoo.com/australian-newspaper-prints-racist-cartoon-serena-williams-naomi-osaka-153447048.html

Shame on you, Herald Sun.
Merckx index
Senior Member
 
Posts: 3,759
Joined: 27 Jul 2010 19:19

Re: Tennis

11 Sep 2018 03:12

How is the cartoon racist?

Mark Knight has drawn a black person who looks like a black person. How else was he supposed to draw her? Knight, like most cartoonists drawing real life figures for public consumption, exaggerates certain features of his subjects, so that it is obvious to his audience who he is depicting without requiring verbal cues. He has a long long history of drawing that way, and his drawing of Williams is completely in line with that style.

It's not racism, it's conventional cartooning method. It would only be racism if he were drawing certain features only to denigrate or make fun of them, which he obviously isn't.
Mamil
Junior Member
 
Posts: 109
Joined: 11 Jan 2018 11:24

11 Sep 2018 05:17

how is that cartoon racists?



snowflake generation really are taking over
rick james
Senior Member
 
Posts: 4,418
Joined: 02 Sep 2014 13:21
Location: Ecosse

11 Sep 2018 06:40

The dodgy bit is that they have clearly whitened Osaka and made her a blonde-haired Caucasian woman, in juxtaposition to the dummy-spitting monster on the other side.
QuickZulu
New Member
 
Posts: 16
Joined: 18 Apr 2016 13:32

Re:

11 Sep 2018 09:08

QuickZulu wrote:The dodgy bit is that they have clearly whitened Osaka and made her a blonde-haired Caucasian woman, in juxtaposition to the dummy-spitting monster on the other side.


There's a little bit of truth here. If you look closely at the cartoon you can see that Osaka's skin is actually a bit darker than the umpire's, and her hair is actually dyed dark blonde at the moment, so the depiction is not completely inaccurate. But I agree that she does look a little too Caucasian, creating a slightly awkward juxtaposition with Williams. But I'm comfortable that this was a mistake by Knight, rather than a deliberate contrast.

I've seen some people say that it's by definition racist, regardless of intent, to draw an African-American with features like fuller lips and a solid build, because of racist and stereotyped use of such features in the past, but if we were to accept that then it means that it is completely impossible to draw Williams with any degree of accuracy or recognisability without it being racist, which is absurd.
Mamil
Junior Member
 
Posts: 109
Joined: 11 Jan 2018 11:24

Re:

11 Sep 2018 13:02

rick james wrote:how is that cartoon racists?



snowflake generation really are taking over


Still angling for a spot on the wall of gammon, Rick?

Image

You can’t even put on blackface and dance on tv any more! It’s political correctness gawrn maaad! I had golliwogs when I was a kid and there was nothing wrong with them! What are we supposed to call them if it’s suddenly bad to say “Paki shop” eh?

It’s a racist caricature, with Williams drawn with exaggerated “African” features in order to mock and denigrate her, in the style of a long tradition of anti-black caricatures. Osaka meanwhile was turned into a white blond woman in order to emphasize her dignity and correct behaviour. You can only miss the racism if you are trying to do so or if, deep down, you think that there’s nothing really wrong with a bit of racism as long as it’s “just a joke”. The cartoon is racist, the cartoonist is racist with a record of producing racist cartoons and those who are defending him are mostly racists.
Zinoviev Letter
Veteran
 
Posts: 6,397
Joined: 18 Aug 2010 13:18

Re: Tennis

11 Sep 2018 13:42

Mamil wrote:
Mark Knight has drawn a black person who looks like a black person. How else was he supposed to draw her?


You really lack imagination, don’t you? Let me help you:

https://www.google.com/search?q=ben+carson+cartoons&client=firefox-b&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=HL5pDHv3r6Cg5M%253A%252CYd2-FFBbj3MB4M%252C_&usg=AFrqEzeTVha6WDVHOzc6bH0KOdg0woA1tg&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj5y-Lbh7PdAhUB7J8KHZBVBE4Q9QEwA3oECAQQCg#imgrc=HL5pDHv3r6Cg5M:

https://www.google.com/search?q=condoleezza+rice+cartoons&client=firefox-b&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=Ya54Wyo3TPN-MM%253A%252CC5b_ZfTfTjdPGM%252C_&usg=AFrqEzdqkIWRn5yDJ0xjNfGrIoRGpGFl_Q&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiI8a3mibPdAhWFFXwKHVjQASMQ9QEwAXoECAYQBg#imgrc=Ya54Wyo3TPN-MM:

Knight, like most cartoonists drawing real life figures for public consumption, exaggerates certain features of his subjects, so that it is obvious to his audience who he is depicting without requiring verbal cues.


So if he had just shown a dark-skinned woman jumping on her racket while a lighter-skinned woman was talking to the ref, no one would have been able to figure out it was Serena? Serena does not look human in that cartoon. Certainly not as human as the other two figures. He could have exaggerated features to make her look angry, for example, with her mouth wide open in a baby howl (which would have fit better with what the ref was saying in the cartoon).

But since you see nothing wrong with that, I presume you wouldn’t have had a problem if Knight had drawn a larger, closer-up figure of Osaka, emphasizing her slant eyes. Because again, we can’t possibly figure out who’s who in a group of two people holding tennis rackets unless the cartoonist emphasizes their races.

It's not racism, it's conventional cartooning method. It would only be racism if he were drawing certain features only to denigrate or make fun of them, which he obviously isn't.


In the first place, you don’t know that. In the second place, if that’s your definition of racism, you really don’t understand the problem. Most of the history of racism, at least in the U.S., has been furthered not by making fun of African-Americans, but by doing exactly what the cartoonist was doing—emphasizing how they are superficially different from Caucasians. Believe it or not, most racists in the past—and plenty still today—didn’t/don’t know that they were/are racists.
Merckx index
Senior Member
 
Posts: 3,759
Joined: 27 Jul 2010 19:19

Re: Re:

11 Sep 2018 14:17

Zinoviev Letter wrote:
rick james wrote:how is that cartoon racists?



snowflake generation really are taking over


Still angling for a spot on the wall of gammon, Rick?

Image

You can’t even put on blackface and dance on tv any more! It’s political correctness gawrn maaad! I had golliwogs when I was a kid and there was nothing wrong with them! What are we supposed to call them if it’s suddenly bad to say “Paki shop” eh?

It’s a racist caricature, with Williams drawn with exaggerated “African” features in order to mock and denigrate her, in the style of a long tradition of anti-black caricatures. Osaka meanwhile was turned into a white blond woman in order to emphasize her dignity and correct behaviour. You can only miss the racism if you are trying to do so or if, deep down, you think that there’s nothing really wrong with a bit of racism as long as it’s “just a joke”. The cartoon is racist, the cartoonist is racist with a record of producing racist cartoons and those who are defending him are mostly racists.


You seem more up set about a caricature than the fact that Williams ruined the whole moment for a young tennis player winning a grand slam...


And it’s a caricature, if it is a modern art master piece I doubt it would be funny, caricature are meant to be a piss take
Last edited by rick james on 11 Sep 2018 16:34, edited 2 times in total.
rick james
Senior Member
 
Posts: 4,418
Joined: 02 Sep 2014 13:21
Location: Ecosse

PreviousNext

Return to The Clinic

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Nomad, samhocking and 19 guests

Back to top