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Richie Porte - what do we know about him?

The Clinic is the only place on Cyclingnews where you can discuss doping-related issues. Ask questions, discuss positives or improvements to procedures.

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20 Jan 2017 17:53

Basically his facial fat has deserted him. No more cheeks. Ears are all bone.

It's a noticeable and unexpected difference for an athlete who was already a highly trained athlete in that first pic.
sniper
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Re: Re:

20 Jan 2017 21:29

Benotti69 wrote:
rick james wrote:Christ on a bike over 7 years I'd expect all of us to change how we look.


Not our ears mate, unless we play rubgy and turn them into cabbage leaves.

But you keep believing that skeletal riders are normal ;)

Not sure how you can tell his ears have changed when you're trying to compare an ear you can see in one photo to the one you can't in the other ?

Not debating his cleanliness just that this doesn't really do anything to prove anything- him sprinting up mountains is enough.
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20 Jan 2017 22:14

Porte is incredibly toned already for the TDU how he looks for the Tour probably won't be much different I hope. I won't go into the ear debate !
movingtarget
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21 Jan 2017 01:42

Does anyone else think that Porte might have a shot at the Ardennes this year? I can see him figuring at Liege and Flèche Wallone
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Re:

21 Jan 2017 05:33

42x16ss wrote:Does anyone else think that Porte might have a shot at the Ardennes this year? I can see him figuring at Liege and Flèche Wallone


Fleche usually favours a more explosive type sprinter like Valverde or Rodriguez and it's much steeper. He would have to break a way to win the Liege as he wouldn't win that sprint, it's not steep enough. Although Evans won Fleche but then Evans was a much better classics rider than Porte. Fleche would probably be the one he would get nearest to winning but he would have to go early on the climb and usually when you go early you lose. Would be interesting to see him try though.
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21 Jan 2017 06:24

What about amstel, though? Kreuziger is not amongst the riders with the sharpest racing nous, but he managed to snatch the race with a well timed ambush move. Of course I think porte is even less likely to pull such thing.

As for the pics, guy clearly lost some fat.
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Re: Re:

21 Jan 2017 06:39

movingtarget wrote:
42x16ss wrote:Does anyone else think that Porte might have a shot at the Ardennes this year? I can see him figuring at Liege and Flèche Wallone


Fleche usually favours a more explosive type sprinter like Valverde or Rodriguez and it's much steeper. He would have to break a way to win the Liege as he wouldn't win that sprint, it's not steep enough. Although Evans won Fleche but then Evans was a much better classics rider than Porte. Fleche would probably be the one he would get nearest to winning but he would have to go early on the climb and usually when you go early you lose. Would be interesting to see him try though.

I don't see Porte winning either, but I do believe he can animate the race at both and fight for a good placement.
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21 Jan 2017 07:19

So what is the w/kg limit for an 8 min climb effort? If there is one.
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21 Jan 2017 10:58

Usual suspects pointing to his ears and yelling doping instead of his performances.
"This is the Tour that will determine whether I can drink espresso at the Garda lake the rest of my life"
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Re:

21 Jan 2017 12:14

jens_attacks wrote:So what is the w/kg limit for an 8 min climb effort? If there is one.


8.2w/kg but that was only for 7 minutes. Doesn't tell you a lot except he produced a lot of power for a guy that doesn't weight that much. Again it was for a short period of time.
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Re: Re:

21 Jan 2017 12:16

42x16ss wrote:
movingtarget wrote:
42x16ss wrote:Does anyone else think that Porte might have a shot at the Ardennes this year? I can see him figuring at Liege and Flèche Wallone


Fleche usually favours a more explosive type sprinter like Valverde or Rodriguez and it's much steeper. He would have to break a way to win the Liege as he wouldn't win that sprint, it's not steep enough. Although Evans won Fleche but then Evans was a much better classics rider than Porte. Fleche would probably be the one he would get nearest to winning but he would have to go early on the climb and usually when you go early you lose. Would be interesting to see him try though.

I don't see Porte winning either, but I do believe he can animate the race at both and fight for a good placement.


I don't see why not. Usually Fleche is the easiest of the Ardenne races. It's the shortest and usually comes down to the final sprint.
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Re:

21 Jan 2017 12:21

meat puppet wrote:What about amstel, though? Kreuziger is not amongst the riders with the sharpest racing nous, but he managed to snatch the race with a well timed ambush move. Of course I think porte is even less likely to pull such thing.

As for the pics, guy clearly lost some fat.


Kreuziger is suited to the hilly classics. I think Amstel suits him more than Porte but then Porte is usually a pretty good TT rider. He would have to go a long way from the finish and hope the chase wasn't too organized as it happened for Kreuziger. You always need some luck to win those races and Kreuziger's attack was well timed. Porte has never really shown a lot in the classics as he usually rides for someone else when he does ride them.
movingtarget
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Re:

21 Jan 2017 12:57

Valv.Piti wrote:Usual suspects pointing to his ears and yelling doping instead of his performances.


Latest images of Porte are relevant, his performances have already been noted.


http://www.crankpunk.com/blogs/crankpunk/item/814-bmc-racing-need-to-be-turfed-out.html
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Re: Re:

21 Jan 2017 14:48

thehog wrote:
jens_attacks wrote:So what is the w/kg limit for an 8 min climb effort? If there is one.


8.2w/kg but that was only for 7 minutes. Doesn't tell you a lot except he produced a lot of power for a guy that doesn't weight that much. Again it was for a short period of time.


doesn't tell you much? assuming a max FTP of 6 w/kg that's 2.2w/kg * 7 minutes * 62kg = an incredible anaerobic work capacity. There's less literature about the "normal" range for AWC so all I can go on is my own, but apparently his AWC is 2.5x mine at 20kg lower body weight.
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Re: Re:

21 Jan 2017 17:36

proffate wrote:
thehog wrote:
jens_attacks wrote:So what is the w/kg limit for an 8 min climb effort? If there is one.


8.2w/kg but that was only for 7 minutes. Doesn't tell you a lot except he produced a lot of power for a guy that doesn't weight that much. Again it was for a short period of time.


doesn't tell you much? assuming a max FTP of 6 w/kg that's 2.2w/kg * 7 minutes * 62kg = an incredible anaerobic work capacity. There's less literature about the "normal" range for AWC so all I can go on is my own, but apparently his AWC is 2.5x mine at 20kg lower body weight.

The additional power is not just anaerobically produced, though. In fact oxygen consumption will continue to increase once riders go above their Ftp up until a max vo2 is reached. This usually takes a while and can be attained also at prolonged submaximal but supra ftp efforts due to the so called vo2 slow component. Nonetheless there is a significant aerobic component to supra ftp power generation. Conversely, FTP is always a fraction of vo2max, not identical to it.

In efforts ranging from 5-10 minutes it is largely just this the supra ftp aerobic power (as well as the ability to convert lactate into work) that counts.

But surely pro riders tend to have a huge anaerobic capacity as well.

If you google coggan w/kg chart you can get a ballpark number for world class riders limits for these kinds of efforts. Different individuals will have different abilities, of course. The chart states 7,6w/kg for 5min efforts as a ballpark, so perhaps 8w/kg for 8 minutes is within range for the absolute bests... But NB that this chart is from the "pre-cleans" era and so your mileage will vary.
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21 Jan 2017 18:08

Since anaerobic work capacity is so small it is extremely sensitive to where you make the cutoff from aerobic and it's pretty much entirely pointless to consider in isolation from power estimates that themselves have significant uncertainty.

If you do a 7 minute effort at 500W and you set the cutoff at 450W, that comes out to 21kJ of anaerobic work. If you set the cutoff at 440W (10W or 2% of 500) you get 25.2kJ or 20% more. So a small uncertainty in wattage and cutoff is translated into a "useless" uncertainty for anaerobic work.
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Re: Re:

21 Jan 2017 18:26

meat puppet wrote:
proffate wrote:
thehog wrote:
jens_attacks wrote:So what is the w/kg limit for an 8 min climb effort? If there is one.


8.2w/kg but that was only for 7 minutes. Doesn't tell you a lot except he produced a lot of power for a guy that doesn't weight that much. Again it was for a short period of time.


doesn't tell you much? assuming a max FTP of 6 w/kg that's 2.2w/kg * 7 minutes * 62kg = an incredible anaerobic work capacity. There's less literature about the "normal" range for AWC so all I can go on is my own, but apparently his AWC is 2.5x mine at 20kg lower body weight.

The additional power is not just anaerobically produced, though. In fact oxygen consumption will continue to increase once riders go above their Ftp up until a max vo2 is reached. This usually takes a while and can be attained also at prolonged submaximal but supra ftp efforts due to the so called vo2 slow component. Nonetheless there is a significant aerobic component to supra ftp power generation. Conversely, FTP is always a fraction of vo2max, not identical to it.

In efforts ranging from 5-10 minutes it is largely just this the supra ftp aerobic power (as well as the ability to convert lactate into work) that counts.

But surely pro riders tend to have a huge anaerobic capacity as well.

If you google coggan w/kg chart you can get a ballpark number for world class riders limits for these kinds of efforts. Different individuals will have different abilities, of course. The chart states 7,6w/kg for 5min efforts as a ballpark, so perhaps 8w/kg for 8 minutes is within range for the absolute bests... But NB that this chart is from the "pre-cleans" era and so your mileage will vary.


I never heard of something as high as that....
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21 Jan 2017 18:30

Why so much chat about Richie here rather than in his thread in PRR? Why so much chat about AC in PRR, yet virtually none in the clinic recently? This exposes the double standards of the forum police, they have their favourite riders and they shall decide what gets said about who. I think the science proves over 7 minute climbs Porte's performances at the TDU are not extra terrestrial.
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Re: Re:

21 Jan 2017 18:31

proffate wrote:
thehog wrote:
jens_attacks wrote:So what is the w/kg limit for an 8 min climb effort? If there is one.


8.2w/kg but that was only for 7 minutes. Doesn't tell you a lot except he produced a lot of power for a guy that doesn't weight that much. Again it was for a short period of time.


doesn't tell you much? assuming a max FTP of 6 w/kg that's 2.2w/kg * 7 minutes * 62kg = an incredible anaerobic work capacity. There's less literature about the "normal" range for AWC so all I can go on is my own, but apparently his AWC is 2.5x mine at 20kg lower body weight.


More to the point it's too hard to draw a definitive conclusion. In saying that it was a huge burst of power when he attacked, no one could follow and he kept on going for a guy who weighs very little. If he had his hands on the drops there would have been comparisons to Pantani. Porte looks like he's going to smash this year and the only thing stopping him will be Froome calling up the UCI to drug test him more.

TVG might also want to tap into Porte's program. Get the right drugs.
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Re:

21 Jan 2017 18:36

Cookster15 wrote:Why so much chat about Richie here rather than in his thread in PRR? Why so much chat about AC in PRR, yet virtually none in the clinic recently? This exposes the double standards of the forum police, they have their favourite riders and they shall decide what gets said about who. I think the science proves over 7 minute climbs Porte's performances at the TDU are not extra terrestrial.


Contador did just over 7 w/kg on his beloved malhao, 7 min effort.

Porte probably above 8 on willunga.

Again, it's unprecedented.
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