Log in:  

Register

Richie Porte - what do we know about him?

The Clinic is the only place on Cyclingnews where you can discuss doping-related issues. Ask questions, discuss positives or improvements to procedures.

Moderators: Irondan, Eshnar, Red Rick, Valv.Piti, Tonton, Pricey_sky, King Boonen

Richie Porte - what do we know about him?

04 Oct 2012 18:07

What do we know about him? His performances are strange.

Last year could barely keep up on the flat. Now he's gangbusters on the climbs at 450w+

I thought he might have a future but he'll be forever tainted by the Sky team.

No wonder Simon Gerrans got out.

Porte I think is a reasonable TT'er but climber?

What's he doing?
User avatar thehog
Veteran
 
Posts: 20,106
Joined: 27 Jul 2009 20:00

04 Oct 2012 18:20

Maybe he just had a bad year last year? Did very well in the Giro the previous year, maybe he overtrained or something? For someone who did as well as he did in 2010 at age 25 his results this year arent necessarily that odd if he was able to do better training - he performed well on the climbs but was able to take it very easy after pulling off the front.

Does anyone know why his performances last year were that poor?
Frosty
Senior Member
 
Posts: 3,039
Joined: 25 Jun 2009 08:39
Location: UK

04 Oct 2012 18:26

I'm pretty sure Porte is doping but to say he could barely keep up on the flat is just silly.
User avatar hrotha
Veteran
 
Posts: 15,269
Joined: 10 Jun 2010 20:45

04 Oct 2012 19:18

Frosty wrote:Maybe he just had a bad year last year? Did very well in the Giro the previous year, maybe he overtrained or something? For someone who did as well as he did in 2010 at age 25 his results this year arent necessarily that odd if he was able to do better training - he performed well on the climbs but was able to take it very easy after pulling off the front.

Does anyone know why his performances last year were that poor?


The main reason is that Contador came into the team. This meant a) Porte's chances to ride for himself were greatly reduced and b) Contador brought his own mountain domestiques with him (Navarro, Hernandez etc) meaning Porte rode more in the flatlands.
He'd also fallen out with Riis at the end of 2010 as Riis hadn't offered him a pay rise and then he had wanted to break his (very underpaid) contract to move to Sky. Also his mentor (Julich) had left the team.

However, when you look at the times when he could ride for himself (TTs) his results were good. Perhaps better than 2010.
Parker
Member
 
Posts: 1,115
Joined: 04 Mar 2011 01:20

04 Oct 2012 20:13

He finished 7th overall in the Giro 2010. wore pink for 3 days.

He didn't get better all of a sudden, he was always a good rider ...
He probably could've finished top 10 overall in the tour if he rode for himself.
User avatar TylerDurden1
Junior Member
 
Posts: 50
Joined: 09 Jul 2012 23:39
Location: Texas

04 Oct 2012 21:01

Seems to have done barely anything before 25. He switched from tri aged 21 after doing one race and getting signed to some Aussie national series team, before heading to Europe with an Italian amateur team managed by Tafi - but anyone can read Wikipedia.
User avatar Caruut
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2,204
Joined: 30 Oct 2011 18:26

04 Oct 2012 21:51

I am a bit puzzled by his 2011 season. One hand with the contract pretty much in the bag for next year, he didn't have to worry about results, on the other hand a falling out with Riis and staff changes shouldn't have had such an effect.
User avatar roundabout
Veteran
 
Posts: 12,847
Joined: 07 Jun 2010 11:43

04 Oct 2012 21:58

roundabout wrote:I am a bit puzzled by his 2011 season. One hand with the contract pretty much in the bag for next year, he didn't have to worry about results, on the other hand a falling out with Riis and staff changes shouldn't have had such an effect.


Left to his own devices in time trials, and his 2011 results were good:

1st Castilla y Leon TT
1st Tour of Denmark TT
2nd Romandie TT
3rd Giro TT
3rd Paris Nice TT
4th Tour de France TT
6th Worlds TT

The rest is team tactics (and a little bit of team politics).
Parker
Member
 
Posts: 1,115
Joined: 04 Mar 2011 01:20

04 Oct 2012 22:07

Yes, he could TT well, although at least the Romandie one was due to him sitting in the bus with the aim for this one stage after he lost all his GC chances.

And potentially benefiting from the wind change.

My point is that he should have been better in Paris-Nice for example. Didn't make the first 2 groups on the difficult stage, did a very good TT and then got lost in the rain to Biot.

Somewhere soon after his season went to crap and he didn't really feature in road stages apart from the climb to Macugnaga when he was still there with 3km to go.
User avatar roundabout
Veteran
 
Posts: 12,847
Joined: 07 Jun 2010 11:43

04 Oct 2012 22:13

TylerDurden1 wrote:He finished 7th overall in the Giro 2010. wore pink for 3 days.

He didn't get better all of a sudden, he was always a good rider ...
He probably could've finished top 10 overall in the tour if he rode for himself.


David Arroyo says 'hello'!

The only reason Porte finished top 10 was due to the time he gained by being in the break.
User avatar BYOP88
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2,757
Joined: 26 May 2009 17:12

04 Oct 2012 22:57

thehog wrote:Last year could barely keep up on the flat. Now he's gangbusters on the climbs at 450w+

No wonder Simon Gerrans got out.

Ok, so having one good year, followed by a bad year, and then a good year again, is a proof of doping now? Come on. Anyone can have a bad year, particularly a guy who just turned pro. Porte's performances this season have been perfectly reasonable considering the talent he showed in his first (which were far more surprising to be honest). I'm not saying he's not doped, but using his one bad year as an argument for that is just silly.

Gerrans has improved more than Porte the last year, so I really don't get your last point. At Sky, Gerrans was mostly a half-decent hilly rider who could get top 10s at best (or ride an entire TDF without ever being on the screen). The only result he got at Sky was GC in Tour of Denmark.

Now, he's clearly one of the best riders in the world. That's an improvement for you right there. Certainly no less improvement than Porte. But I guess that's not suspicious because he's not from Sky? :rolleyes:
maltiv
Veteran
 
Posts: 5,416
Joined: 23 Oct 2009 20:25

05 Oct 2012 00:01

Parker wrote:The main reason is that Contador came into the team. This meant a) Porte's chances to ride for himself were greatly reduced and b) Contador brought his own mountain domestiques with him (Navarro, Hernandez etc) meaning Porte rode more in the flatlands.
He'd also fallen out with Riis at the end of 2010 as Riis hadn't offered him a pay rise and then he had wanted to break his (very underpaid) contract to move to Sky. Also his mentor (Julich) had left the team.

However, when you look at the times when he could ride for himself (TTs) his results were good. Perhaps better than 2010.


Tyler's book sets the pattern. This post sets the scene.

**** off the boss = no "preparation". Unless you buy it yourself. Second year pro buying it himself? Not likely. Definitely no tranfusions.

We saw Porte ride clean(er) for a year?
Letters to and from the pro peloton. twitter | blog
User avatar Dear Wiggo
Veteran
 
Posts: 8,087
Joined: 29 Sep 2012 10:11
Location: Sunny Australia

05 Oct 2012 00:28

maltiv wrote:Ok, so having one good year, followed by a bad year, and then a good year again, is a proof of doping now? Come on. Anyone can have a bad year, particularly a guy who just turned pro. Porte's performances this season have been perfectly reasonable considering the talent he showed in his first (which were far more surprising to be honest). I'm not saying he's not doped, but using his one bad year as an argument for that is just silly.

Gerrans has improved more than Porte the last year, so I really don't get your last point. At Sky, Gerrans was mostly a half-decent hilly rider who could get top 10s at best (or ride an entire TDF without ever being on the screen). The only result he got at Sky was GC in Tour of Denmark.

Now, he's clearly one of the best riders in the world. That's an improvement for you right there. Certainly no less improvement than Porte. But I guess that's not suspicious because he's not from Sky? :rolleyes:


Come on, you know he's not saying it's "proof", but we all know that wildly fluctuating results is one indicator of possible doping. For me, Porte is the least suspicious of the Awesome Foursome. The 2011 season does seem to have had its reasons, and while he did gain a lot of time in that break, he would still have been top 10.

He gained 12:24 on Mollema in 12th and 12:21 on Gadret in 13th who finished 12:19 and 16:41 behind him, respectively. That puts him in 12th place, ahead of Gadret, but Sastre in 8th and Kiserlovski in 10th also gained time in that break, so he moves up to 10th once you add the time gained in the break to Sastre and Kiserlovski.

Gerrans has won a monument, yes, but in the worst possible fashion.
User avatar Caruut
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2,204
Joined: 30 Oct 2011 18:26

05 Oct 2012 01:31

2011 is easily explainable.

You should be looking at his progression 2008-2010, then look at 2012-

I think if he continues to make big leaps, he will be a genuine contender by 2014.
Ferminal
Veteran
 
Posts: 16,909
Joined: 03 Jul 2009 09:42

05 Oct 2012 03:31

richie porte?

'not normal'
barn yard
Member
 
Posts: 584
Joined: 07 Apr 2010 07:09

05 Oct 2012 04:49

I'd say he just went too deep in 2010 trying to establish himself as a pro and burned himself out completely. It's been done before and I suspect that Gilbert did something similar last year when he was on that incredible roll, running himself into the ground riding on sheer confidence.

Yes, Porte was a bit of a surprise when he first hit the pro ranks, but he was coming off two seasons of total domination in the Australian NRS and a very good first season in Europe at conti level. He was always promising. I'd say he isn't doing anything that any other squad's super-domestiques aren't doing.
How to ride like a Tour champion!

proof noun (SHOWING TRUTH)

B2 [C or U] a fact or piece of information that shows that something exists or is true

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dict...ritish/proof_1


evidence noun [U] uk /ˈev.ɪ.dəns/ us

B2 one or more reasons for believing that something is or is not true

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dict...itish/evidence
User avatar 42x16ss
Veteran
 
Posts: 5,339
Joined: 23 May 2009 04:43
Location: Brisbane, Aus

05 Oct 2012 04:53

barn yard wrote:richie porte?

'not normal'


"reverse periodisation"
User avatar zlev11
Member
 
Posts: 558
Joined: 23 Jan 2011 17:49

05 Oct 2012 08:32

Caruut wrote:Come on, you know he's not saying it's "proof", but we all know that wildly fluctuating results is one indicator of possible doping.


Consistent results (at a high level) are also an indicator of possible by all accounts, which is why meaningful debate is difficult!

The only way not to be suspected of doping is to be so bad that even if you improve dramatically, no-one notices. I have tried this on club runs and it works. Normally, I get dropped around half an hour from the end, but if I shoot up on caffeine at breakfast I usually hang onto the bunch until the final sprint uphill before getting dropped. No-one has ever commented on these wildly fluctuating performance levels so this theory, at least is sound.

Re Porte, I'd agree that he is the least suspicious of the 4 Horsemen of the Apothecary. I'd question the description "awesome" for Porte or Rogers, though.

Rogers is suspicious because of his late career improvement, not his absolute performance levels. He finished an hour down in the Tour, which puts his performance into better perspective than exaggerated accounts of him blowing the peleton to pieces on HC climbs, when in reality, he was rarely present at the sharp end of things, having been deployed tactically early on a climb, leaving the heavy lifting to Froome.

Porte suffers only from guilt by association. His GT performance levels are way down on 2010, and not that much better than in 2011 when he doubled up in the Giro and the Tour. (He still finished 6th in the World ITT in 2011, compared to 4th in 2010.)
Wallace and Gromit
Member
 
Posts: 1,288
Joined: 17 Jul 2012 14:31

05 Oct 2012 08:34

Porte 2012 is a clear improvement over Porte 2010.

You can't look at absolute results in GTs when pulling an hour a day in the mountains and compare them to being protected all day and chauffeured up the final climb.

His performances at Malhao, Mende, Sion, Morzine, Vosges, Ain... these all "look" better than anything he showed in 2010 with the exception of San Sebastian.
Ferminal
Veteran
 
Posts: 16,909
Joined: 03 Jul 2009 09:42

05 Oct 2012 08:51

There is an existing thread about Richie Porte.

Richie makes his Clinic debut...

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=11673
Maillot Vert
New Member
 
Posts: 14
Joined: 04 Oct 2012 09:36

Next

Return to The Clinic

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Norks74, sworks and 19 guests

Back to top