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When is the smackdown on Chris Horner?

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Re:

10 Aug 2015 21:12

irondan wrote:I know nothing about asthma. Does it come and go or is it always with you? If he had it in 2009 he didn't seem to have it in 2013, unless everyone else had asthma and he didn't.


Its amazing how many top sportsmen and women can compete and be world class with ASTHMA !

Kids in my school couldnt climb stairs with asthma never mind run a frikkin marathon or climb Mont ventoux !
User avatar Cycle Chic
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Re:

10 Aug 2015 21:19

the delgados wrote:
Lots of very knowledgeable people here.

Only 12...
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Re:

10 Aug 2015 21:42

JeffinLV@gmail.com wrote:To the Cyclingnews editors:

Regarding the story about Horner's TUE denial, instead of regurgitating Horner's rant and the UCI's boilerplate response, thereby inciting the public into yet another argument about doping, why not take a stab at journalism? It would be most enlightening to know when the application was submitted, when the denial response was sent back, the stated reasons for denial, etc.


Horner states that two doctors diagnosed him - why not ask him who the doctors are, and ask them for comment?
The UCI states a three member board reviewed the application - why not ask them who reviewed it, and why it was actually denied?
Horner says he sent the application in with plenty of time to spare - why not ask both parties for their records on when the application was received and responded to - who knows? Maybe someone is not being forthcoming about their actions.

The 10,000-foot view of this complete with F-bombs does nothing to further your readers' understaning of the situation. If you can't make the effort to be truly useful to your readers, you might as well pack it in and just run press releases from the UCI, bike companies, and teams.


You obviously don't read CN a lot ........ :rolleyes:
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10 Aug 2015 21:48

Asthma is a permanent affliction.


It can be aggravated or fairly latent due to a variety of conditions.

For example pollen is an often commented aggravating factor
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Re:

10 Aug 2015 21:50

mrhender wrote:http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/horner-blasts-uci-for-denying-asthma-tue/

“The UCI has taken it from one extreme, where they used to just allow whatever you needed, to now they won’t allow anything, unless of course it’s a [WorldTour] doctor nagging them,” Horner said.


:p


Translation for those not fluent in Cowboy:
"waaaaaa....i need some steroids...waaaaaaa...they used to give me steroids all the time....waaaaaaaa.....everybody else can get steroids......waaaaaaaaa"

Thank you Chris, you keep being you.
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Re: Re:

10 Aug 2015 21:52

Cycle Chic wrote:
irondan wrote:I know nothing about asthma. Does it come and go or is it always with you? If he had it in 2009 he didn't seem to have it in 2013, unless everyone else had asthma and he didn't.
a valid point and a very good question.

the corticosteroid tue controversy is common in cycling (and other endurance sports run out of doors)... for all intents and purposes, it is a form of legal doping that most get granted and some denied.

i have been following the issue for years and, if memory serves, about 1/3 of all professional elite (wt) riders own a tue for one chemical or another. the absolute majority are, and have been for a while, the exemptions for corticosteroids that upset horner so much...

frankly, given the omnipresence of the legal/sanctioned corticosteroids in the peloton, horner has a point. as always, the poor is easier to ignore than the rich. that said, as cycle chick has already noted, the horner sudden finding of needing a tue at the ripe age of 43 is (or even 41) is strange to say the least.

i could go on about the medical and scientific aspect of the breathing complexities when the lungs are maxed, but the button line is that corticosteroids, even in small' therapeutic' amounts, will improve your oxygen availability and likely any endurance performance, asthmatic or not..

in my opinion, we are dealing here with a real hole in the finite effects of the INDIVIDUAL dozes of corticosteroids (a medical scientific knowledge lack) exploited (and politicized) by the commercial dimension of professional sports. the uci incompetence thus is explainable, but its selective application is loath-able, imo.

not much else to say...
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Re: Re:

10 Aug 2015 23:16

python wrote:
Cycle Chic wrote:
irondan wrote:I know nothing about asthma. Does it come and go or is it always with you? If he had it in 2009 he didn't seem to have it in 2013, unless everyone else had asthma and he didn't.
a valid point and a very good question.

the corticosteroid tue controversy is common in cycling (and other endurance sports run out of doors)... for all intents and purposes, it is a form of legal doping that most get granted and some denied.

That explains why Chris is so pissed off.

He was also blaming the UCI for not giving him a TUE at last years Vuelta? That part didn't make much sense to me because it was his team that held him out of the race, not the UCI.

Shows what his team thought of him too when they keep him out of a race for the MPCC but dumped the MPCC 6 months later for a younger guy. lol

Chris Horner, the Rodney Dangrefield of cycling.. :rolleyes:
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11 Aug 2015 00:06

Horner doesnt win or get good result by a TUE, it could help, yes, but that is something legal, anyway, and I dont know where is the problem, Contador and a lot of riders have a TUE. Horner get his result becouse he is very good and one of the few people able to climb long time up of the bike, what in big slopes is a big advantage.

Acording the good result he done in an era of doping, clearly better than now, it is easy to think he doped in the past, but there is no reason to think he is doping in the last years after BP total implementation (about 2011)
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Re:

11 Aug 2015 03:04

Catwhoorg wrote:...
Abuse of cortisone OOC is not doping. It should be however, a matter for the legal and medical regulatory authorities though, being a prescription drug in almost every jurisdiction that cycling races occur in.
Just wanted to challenge your claim here.We'd have to actually analyze this on a country-by-country basis to know for sure, but I suspect this assertion of yours is incorrect.

A prescription is not required to obtained corticosteroids in any Latin American country that I'm aware of, thereby undermining claim that it's "a prescription drug in almost every jurisdiction that cycling races occur in", and its use is therefore "a matter for the legal and medical regulatory authorities."

[edit: note that I'm not just referring to oral corticosteroids, but presentations intended for administration by IM or intra-articular]
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11 Aug 2015 03:38

You gotta admit though Horner is a hard nut to be still riding at a good level at his age after all these years.

Look how many pro's started after Horner but are no 95kg sofa warriors.

Horner is the fittest of all the longterm pro's in 2015. Cycling is so cut throat though nobody wants to acknowledge his effort and give him acknowledgment of it. He never got busted but many pro's did and they still have a contract.

I thought Horner would be good for marketing as an 40+ inspo but the reality is most people want to use age as an excuse why they can't do something and every time Horner pins on a number or belts it up a local climb on Strava, haters gonna hate cos they don't want to see someone who is not using age as an excuse.

Give conehead a break. He is a mega inspo from an age perspective. Sure he played the game, so did everyone who wanted to be at that level. Its pro sport, if you want to make the big $ then you have to take what it takes to win the events the sponsors want you to win.
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Re:

11 Aug 2015 05:54

Taxus4a wrote:Horner doesnt win or get good result by a TUE, it could help, yes, but that is something legal, anyway, and I dont know where is the problem, Contador and a lot of riders have a TUE. Horner get his result becouse he is very good and one of the few people able to climb long time up of the bike, what in big slopes is a big advantage.

Acording the good result he done in an era of doping, clearly better than now, it is easy to think he doped in the past, but there is no reason to think he is doping in the last years after BP total implementation (about 2011)


Congratulations. Not much makes me laugh out loud, but you managed to pull it off. Twice.

Horner has gotten his results because he has cheated his whole life. It's about the longest-running non-secret out there. When you're a doper that is so comical that the rest of the dopers find you hilarious...these things become rather elementary.

Except to you, apparently. Keep up the good work.
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Re: Re:

11 Aug 2015 11:40

joe_papp wrote:
Catwhoorg wrote:...
Abuse of cortisone OOC is not doping. It should be however, a matter for the legal and medical regulatory authorities though, being a prescription drug in almost every jurisdiction that cycling races occur in.
Just wanted to challenge your claim here.We'd have to actually analyze this on a country-by-country basis to know for sure, but I suspect this assertion of yours is incorrect.

A prescription is not required to obtained corticosteroids in any Latin American country that I'm aware of, thereby undermining claim that it's "a prescription drug in almost every jurisdiction that cycling races occur in", and its use is therefore "a matter for the legal and medical regulatory authorities."

[edit: note that I'm not just referring to oral corticosteroids, but presentations intended for administration by IM or intra-articular]


Happy to stand corrected.
Certainly my European bias is coming through with this thought.
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11 Aug 2015 12:12

I have a serious question. There were always those rumblings that Lance failed tests and things like that. Have there been those same rumblings about Horner? or does most of the hatred come from his performance at an older age. (ie the Vuelta)??
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Re:

11 Aug 2015 12:22

Enrico Gimondi wrote:I have a serious question. There were always those rumblings that Lance failed tests and things like that. Have there been those same rumblings about Horner? or does most of the hatred come from his performance at an older age. (ie the Vuelta)??

I've never heard that he failed any tests. He don't have anyone covering for him, that's obvious. I think the UCI would love to finally get rid of him, especially if they can prove his results were from doping.
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11 Aug 2015 12:36

No but his freely released blood profile shows to the world that he blood doped his way to a GT win.

Taken in the round, its the proverbial roller coaster.
2013 in detail is pretty damning, both of him, and the whole passport program, as it shows just how useless it is for a 3 week grand tour.
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11 Aug 2015 12:38

Image

Thats just the offscore.
Ret , HGB and HCT are equally damning
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11 Aug 2015 12:39

Image

HCT% and ret%
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11 Aug 2015 13:17

So why does Horner not get busted by the ABP?

Cookson dont want big names done for doping?
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Re:

11 Aug 2015 13:21

Benotti69 wrote:So why does Horner not get busted by the ABP?

Cookson dont want big names done for doping?


Perhaps the ABP, like other tests, has the parameters for what triggers a "positive" set so high that it excludes false positives, and thus allows a certain amount of doping?

Maybe that's why folks are so pissed at Horner - by releasing his data, he showed the holes in the system.
“She lost the old-fashioned way, by being a terrible candidate. Case closed.”
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11 Aug 2015 14:35

Poor guy, can't get what he needs for his "asthma"...everyone is out to make his life harder than it should be...
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