Log in:  

Register

Evans and his meeting with Ferrari?

The Clinic is the only place on Cyclingnews where you can discuss doping-related issues. Ask questions, discuss positives or improvements to procedures.

Moderators: Eshnar, King Boonen, Red Rick, Pricey_sky

Re: Re:

18 Jan 2017 00:24

Neworld wrote:It would be interesting to see if his ex-wife throws Cadel under the bus one day.
Hell have no fury like a women's scorn.

Is there any goss on what happened there? He doesn't mention it in his book, other than saying he was angry and stressed about not being able to spend as much time with his son Robel. He doesn't mention Chiara, but it's obviously a reference to their split.

I dunno that ex-wives necessarily talk. There was Betsy of course (not an ex). She was the exception proving the rule though.
delbified
Member
 
Posts: 372
Joined: 22 May 2010 05:03

Re: Evans and his meeting with Ferrari?

18 Jan 2017 02:53

delbified wrote:
Neworld wrote:Great Post noddy69, sounds very similar to recent posts...Delbified and co. do not believe you/us. Your post will be classified as heavy-handed and arrogantly eruditious. I guess Cadel was just magic, magic!

It's not like I don't understand your arguments. But I think you're close-minded to the possibility he was clean. It's easy to be cynical. Statistically you'll be right most of the time and pat yourself on the back for your wisdom. I'd argue the real challenge is to be clever enough to be able to spot the exception. And there are always exceptions.

Am I that clever? No, I'm just guessing. I don't know if Cadel is clean or doping. But my belief is he's clean. Tentatively.

I get it, sort of like a young couple that takes an over the counter pregnancy test. They see the blue '+' sign, which is correct 99.9% of the time, but don't believe it until the Ultrasound shows a bambino.

I'm not close-minded, I'm a realist.

Have you emailed M. Ashenden yet? What other research have you done to prove he's innocent or guilty?
User avatar Neworld
Member
 
Posts: 796
Joined: 27 Jan 2010 01:17
Location: Canada

Re: Evans and his meeting with Ferrari?

18 Jan 2017 03:52

Neworld wrote:Have you emailed M. Ashenden yet? What other research have you done to prove he's innocent or guilty?

I've declared my evidence as authoritative and dismissed any that contradicts it as 'weak minded' and 'naive'? Isn't that enough?
delbified
Member
 
Posts: 372
Joined: 22 May 2010 05:03

Re: Re:

18 Jan 2017 09:24

Neworld wrote:
delbified wrote:
Neworld wrote:http://www.dopeology.org/people/Phil_Anderson/

Gonna take the poster down this weekend?

I wish I still had the posters. Stiff penalties in those days!


It would be interesting to see if his ex-wife throws Cadel under the bus one day.
Hell have no fury like a women's scorn.


And how many other ex cycling wives have done that or is Evans a special case ?
movingtarget
Veteran
 
Posts: 9,216
Joined: 05 Aug 2009 08:54

Re: Re:

18 Jan 2017 13:01

movingtarget wrote:
Neworld wrote:
delbified wrote:
Neworld wrote:http://www.dopeology.org/people/Phil_Anderson/

Gonna take the poster down this weekend?

I wish I still had the posters. Stiff penalties in those days!


It would be interesting to see if his ex-wife throws Cadel under the bus one day.
Hell have no fury like a women's scorn.


And how many other ex cycling wives have done that or is Evans a special case ?


No ex wives have done it as it would seriously reduce spousal divorce payments. ;)
User avatar Benotti69
Veteran
 
Posts: 19,457
Joined: 26 May 2010 09:09

Re: Re:

19 Jan 2017 11:56

Benotti69 wrote:
movingtarget wrote:
Neworld wrote:
delbified wrote:
Neworld wrote:http://www.dopeology.org/people/Phil_Anderson/

Gonna take the poster down this weekend?

I wish I still had the posters. Stiff penalties in those days!


It would be interesting to see if his ex-wife throws Cadel under the bus one day.
Hell have no fury like a women's scorn.


And how many other ex cycling wives have done that or is Evans a special case ?


No ex wives have done it as it would seriously reduce spousal divorce payments. ;)


Sean Kelly would say "she has to make the calculation !"
movingtarget
Veteran
 
Posts: 9,216
Joined: 05 Aug 2009 08:54

Re: Evans and his meeting with Ferrari?

20 Jan 2017 21:08

delbified wrote:
Neworld wrote:Great Post noddy69, sounds very similar to recent posts...Delbified and co. do not believe you/us. Your post will be classified as heavy-handed and arrogantly eruditious. I guess Cadel was just magic, magic!

It's not like I don't understand your arguments. But I think you're close-minded to the possibility he was clean. It's easy to be cynical. Statistically you'll be right most of the time and pat yourself on the back for your wisdom. I'd argue the real challenge is to be clever enough to be able to spot the exception. And there are always exceptions.

Am I that clever? No, I'm just guessing. I don't know if Cadel is clean or doping. But my belief is he's clean. Tentatively.

I won't pat myself on the back at all I'm just giving what I think is a reasoned opinion based on cycling history and his beating dopers.
You don't have a reasoned argument other than blind faith, which I can understand I just don't agree with and think its not an argument at all. I stopped believing in Santa Claus and elves when I was around 10...took me a little longer to stop believing in sportspeople but I got there.
If you can give a reasoned response to the question I posed other than I'm close minded , which doesn't answer what I asked just deflects, then I'll consider he may be clean- I just can't make that argument as I cant see a way its possible.
noddy69
Member
 
Posts: 608
Joined: 04 Oct 2011 07:37

Re: Re:

22 Jan 2017 01:18

delbified wrote: Anyway, he never really climbed with the best. He hung on in the mountains for dear life,


Not true at all. Look at the results. He climbed with the best consistently for years.

delbified wrote: It stands to reason that at some point, the doping controls would reach an effectiveness threshold at which it's possible for a clean rider to beat a doped rider.


According to what, besides wishful thinking? Doping may have become less effective. To say more is a big stretch. Compare the 'reduced doping' climbing times to the 80s. Your wording shows that you want to believe that he's clean. It's not a neutral perspective.
spiritualride
Junior Member
 
Posts: 186
Joined: 06 Jul 2016 22:19

Re: Re:

22 Jan 2017 05:33

spiritualride wrote:
delbified wrote: Anyway, he never really climbed with the best. He hung on in the mountains for dear life,


Not true at all. Look at the results. He climbed with the best consistently for years.

heh, I've always found this line amusing, as though being dropped by Contador makes you a mediocre climber.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzeS8JUPh2w

Finished behind a bunch of jet fuel monsters and ahead of another bunch in one of the more packed top30s you will see. One of Evans' top 5 climbing performances (this version easily beats the field in 2008 and 2010).
Ferminal
Veteran
 
Posts: 16,995
Joined: 03 Jul 2009 09:42

Re: Re:

22 Jan 2017 09:51

Ferminal wrote:
spiritualride wrote:
delbified wrote: Anyway, he never really climbed with the best. He hung on in the mountains for dear life,


Not true at all. Look at the results. He climbed with the best consistently for years.

heh, I've always found this line amusing, as though being dropped by Contador makes you a mediocre climber.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzeS8JUPh2w

Finished behind a bunch of jet fuel monsters and ahead of another bunch in one of the more packed top30s you will see. One of Evans' top 5 climbing performances (this version easily beats the field in 2008 and 2010).


Maybe accounting for the length of the climb

http://blog.slate.fr/tour-de-france-2011/2011/07/24/dans-les-alpes-schleck-et-contador-ont-touche-leurs-limites/
User avatar roundabout
Veteran
 
Posts: 13,097
Joined: 07 Jun 2010 11:43

22 Jan 2017 10:19

Yeh my list is something like:

Telegraphe-Galibier 2007
Alpe d'Huez 2006
Pla de Beret 2006
Aubisque 2007
Courchevel 2005
Lautaret-Galibier 2011
Ferminal
Veteran
 
Posts: 16,995
Joined: 03 Jul 2009 09:42

Re: Evans and his meeting with Ferrari?

22 Jan 2017 12:46

delbified wrote:
Neworld wrote:Great Post noddy69, sounds very similar to recent posts...Delbified and co. do not believe you/us. Your post will be classified as heavy-handed and arrogantly eruditious. I guess Cadel was just magic, magic!

It's not like I don't understand your arguments. But I think you're close-minded to the possibility he was clean. It's easy to be cynical. Statistically you'll be right most of the time and pat yourself on the back for your wisdom. I'd argue the real challenge is to be clever enough to be able to spot the exception. And there are always exceptions.

Am I that clever? No, I'm just guessing. I don't know if Cadel is clean or doping. But my belief is he's clean. Tentatively.


There are people who watch sport, hear a few doping stories, read about Lance, and come to the opinion that all sport is doped.

Then there are people who pay far closer attention to doping and how it works than you give them credit for. They have been reading books on doping (and not the "I was clean and doped once but it didn't help" variety) for way over a decade. They have read the accounts and seen the interviews with doping experts, like Ashenden and those way less known than Ashenden that the media sweeps under the rug and never give attention to. They find the obscure radio appearances, from people who have lived doping, who have admisnistered it and run doping programmes. They read the clinic (or more recently follow certain accounts on twitter). They hear about the semi pro athlete in Judo who tests positive, when no newspaper in the world picks up on it, and they follow the legal case and follow the arguments and excuses, to the end until they see how it turns out. They hear about the 1 article in the Norwegian press that some anti doping expert publishes explaining what the recent evidence he has seen on doping has lead him to conclude. They read the biographies of long forgotten cyclists who doped in the 2000's and read the passages about training camps which they can then tie to their greater library of information. They read the updates about what drugs are now being tested for, and how testing is adminitered.

And they have been doing it for over a decade.

You cannot accuse the second group of just being mindless cynics. Their belief that sport is doped and that people don't podium the Tour de France in the 2000's without being on some sort of mega programme, is not based of mindless cynicism or an inability to understand basic arguments from the "riders can be clean" side. Its not that they think everyone dopes and humans are all evil and will always cheat. They have just built up a library of experiences and evidence that paints a very clear picture that riders don't mix it with mid 2000's epo chargers for 3 straight weeks, year after year, without doping. They also don't believe people run 9.7 in the 100m clean, and people don't win biathlon gold medals at age 40 clean. In the same way that they don't belief that a crime boss facing trial for murder didn't have a hand in killing all those witnesses that happened to die in mysterious circumstances just before the trial.
You portraying the possibility that Evans was clean, as being equal to the possibility that he was dirty, to these people, is ridiculous and in contradiction with all their experience, and the evidence in the case.

Yes its possible that Evans was clean. Its also possible that he will make a comeback this year and win the Tour de France. Its possible we will have 35 degrees C in Europe tomorrow, or that you guys in Australia will experience a snow blizzard that covers the entire continent white. Its possible that a footballer tests positive for drugs this year and Fifa somehow fails to sweep it under the carpet. Everything is always possible. Its the degree of possibility that is important.
Last edited by The Hitch on 22 Jan 2017 17:18, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar The Hitch
Veteran
 
Posts: 28,896
Joined: 14 Jun 2010 10:58
Location: London.

22 Jan 2017 13:08

Enjoyed reading that and it's bang on the buck top to bottom.
When hitch takes his time for a post, usually small jewels come out.
sniper
Veteran
 
Posts: 13,578
Joined: 15 Oct 2010 23:36

Re:

22 Jan 2017 20:16

sniper wrote:Enjoyed reading that and it's bang on the buck top to bottom.
When hitch takes his time for a post, usually small jewels come out.


Spot on. A few more Hitch's in the clinic would make for a far better experience. The Eyerolls and derision more typical here might make the poster feel superior but it ain't going to sway opinion like a well thought out response. This site would be better if it had "like" buttons.
Cookster15
Member
 
Posts: 1,088
Joined: 14 May 2011 19:25

Re: Re:

22 Jan 2017 21:14

Cookster15 wrote:
sniper wrote:Enjoyed reading that and it's bang on the buck top to bottom.
When hitch takes his time for a post, usually small jewels come out.


Spot on. A few more Hitch's in the clinic would make for a far better experience. The Eyerolls and derision more typical here might make the poster feel superior but it ain't going to sway opinion like a well thought out response. This site would be better if it had "like" buttons.


Agreed!. Some posters slag the regular clinic posters as 'living in an echo chamber', and, current and former riders laugh at them...but they are just trying to deflect and derail the clinic. Their actions are transparent.

What you don't see the naysayers do is provide facts like their whereabouts, testing results (ergonomics or blood values) and open training session results. They just dismiss the clinic like a child that just stole a cookie and lied about it.
User avatar Neworld
Member
 
Posts: 796
Joined: 27 Jan 2010 01:17
Location: Canada

26 Jan 2017 09:02

Bromance

Image
Mr.38%
Member
 
Posts: 481
Joined: 12 May 2010 09:15

Re:

26 Jan 2017 12:23

Mr.38% wrote:Bromance

Image


yup, spat coffee on keyboard. Two very clean riders sharing notes over a Regal game of tennis.

Cuddles: "Mate, you don't look so skinny right now, how do you do it? I mean really?"
Chris: "You know how Cadel...I walk dogs...like you and Tyler Hamilton."

Great pic Mr.38%. Priceless.
User avatar Neworld
Member
 
Posts: 796
Joined: 27 Jan 2010 01:17
Location: Canada

26 Jan 2017 13:06

Wonder if they exchange stories about the kind of motors they used in 2011 (a landmark year for both).

CF: "Dude, were you still hiding your battery in a bidon? whuahahaha. I was already rimming it in '11"
sniper
Veteran
 
Posts: 13,578
Joined: 15 Oct 2010 23:36

26 Jan 2017 15:44

The organisers of Cadel Evan's RR got riders tickets for the Australian Open on Tuesday evening.
yaco
Senior Member
 
Posts: 4,323
Joined: 20 Jun 2015 17:57

23 Feb 2017 15:19

Cadel Evans 2009 Giro.
Neutral service car and a motor are unable to change his wheel.

The story: http://www.velonews.com/2009/09/news/evans-puncture-probably-cost-me-the-win-of-the-vuelta_97851

The footage from different angles:

1. "this is a real slow wheel change, one of the slowest i've ever seen"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vl_eqDVRnJc

2. some not so convincing commentary from evans himself post-race:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIvaNrQpCKw

3. cyclocosmos commentray --> 2m40sec: "one of the most shambolic wheel changes ever"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dl1l5zmp6B8

Any thoughts?
sniper
Veteran
 
Posts: 13,578
Joined: 15 Oct 2010 23:36

PreviousNext

Return to The Clinic

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: davebqvst and 23 guests

Back to top