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The Roche Family and Irish Cycling

The Clinic is the only place on Cyclingnews where you can discuss doping-related issues. Ask questions, discuss positives or improvements to procedures.

Moderators: Irondan, Eshnar, Red Rick, Valv.Piti, Tonton, Pricey_sky, King Boonen

10 Mar 2017 18:03

Stephen Roche will always be a cycling god to me. He won the Tour when I first fell in love with the sport.
I met him once and didn't like him as a person at all.

With that pointless anecdote shared I'll get my coat... :D
Dan2016
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10 Mar 2017 18:09

Oh and I wouldn't be surprised at all if Nico Roche is cleans, or at least low-octane 'grey-area' kinda-cleans cleans.
He's not really improved as he was expected to, that's a potential sign of team-cleans.com

We all accept some riders have been clean before, your Basson's, Gilles DeLion's, Moncoutie's etc. So no reason some current riders aren't.
Dan2016
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Re:

10 Mar 2017 18:24

Dan2016 wrote:Stephen Roche will always be a cycling god to me. He won the Tour when I first fell in love with the sport.
I met him once and didn't like him as a person at all.

With that pointless anecdote shared I'll get my coat... :D
Unlike you, I never liked him, ever. Hinault, Fignon, Kelly, Millar ... hell, even Jeff Bernard, all were preferable to Roche. He always came across as such a little ****, with his butter-wouldn't-melt smile and stab-you-in-the-back attitude. I've always preferred my bastards to be upfront about their bastardry.
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Re:

10 Mar 2017 18:31

Dan2016 wrote:Oh and I wouldn't be surprised at all if Nico Roche is cleans, or at least low-octane 'grey-area' kinda-cleans cleans.
He's not really improved as he was expected to, that's a potential sign of team-cleans.com

We all accept some riders have been clean before, your Basson's, Gilles DeLion's, Moncoutie's etc. So no reason some current riders aren't.
The Kimmage interview is always worth re-reading. Not just the part about him using L-Carnitine.
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Re: Re:

10 Mar 2017 18:49

fmk_RoI wrote:
Dan2016 wrote:Stephen Roche will always be a cycling god to me. He won the Tour when I first fell in love with the sport.
I met him once and didn't like him as a person at all.

With that pointless anecdote shared I'll get my coat... :D
Unlike you, I never liked him, ever. Hinault, Fignon, Kelly, Millar ... hell, even Jeff Bernard, all were preferable to Roche. He always came across as such a little ****, with his butter-wouldn't-melt smile and stab-you-in-the-back attitude. I've always preferred my bastards to be upfront about their bastardry.


Yeah I know what you mean. He was a tough bastard though wasn't he, mentally. I admired that. The way he won the Giro for example in '87, against the whole Italian cycling mafia, including his own team. I think I was probs too young at the time to pay attention to his general character. But yeah, didn't like him in person when I met 'em.
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10 Mar 2017 18:51

And Kelly is the ultimate cycling god. I don't give a stuff about what he was taking. Just magic, the racing.
Dan2016
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Re: Re:

10 Mar 2017 18:54

fmk_RoI wrote:
Dan2016 wrote:Oh and I wouldn't be surprised at all if Nico Roche is cleans, or at least low-octane 'grey-area' kinda-cleans cleans.
He's not really improved as he was expected to, that's a potential sign of team-cleans.com

We all accept some riders have been clean before, your Basson's, Gilles DeLion's, Moncoutie's etc. So no reason some current riders aren't.
The Kimmage interview is always worth re-reading. Not just the part about him using L-Carnitine.


Yup, haven't read it yet, gonna have a look this evening.
L-Carnitine, interesting. Ala Salazar crazy high doses I wonder?
Dan2016
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Re: Re:

10 Mar 2017 19:04

Dan2016 wrote:Yeah I know what you mean. He was a tough bastard though wasn't he, mentally. I admired that. The way he won the Giro for example in '87, against the whole Italian cycling mafia, including his own team. I think I was probs too young at the time to pay attention to his general character. But yeah, didn't like him in person when I met 'em.
'87 was definitely a story. Or loads of stories. But I never see Roche as the hero of them, not really.
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Re: Re:

10 Mar 2017 19:29

Benotti69 wrote:
TheSpud wrote:
Benotti69 wrote:Nico writing in the Irish independent

http://www.independent.ie/sport/other-sports/cycling/nicolas-roche-like-froome-i-wouldnt-sign-statement-backing-brailsford-35514769.html
The truth is, in my two years at Team Sky I was never asked to do anything that broke or even bent the anti-doping laws, either legally or ethically.


So hard to say i dont dope, didn't dope and i ride clean.


Maybe, actually, he's telling the truth? But of course that doesn't fit your narrative does it ...


Jeez Martin, I mean Spud, always with the personal attacks always playing the man and not the ball.

Very easy to say i dont and never have doped. Doesn't make it true. Ask Marion, Lance, Carl etc etc....no doubt all your heroes.


Calling me Martin is both a personal attack and also a sockpuppet accusation, which as you know is against the rules ...

And there is a narrative here that everyone dopes, so I'm quite within my rights to make my comment.
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Re: Re:

10 Mar 2017 19:33

fmk_RoI wrote:
Benotti69 wrote:
fmk_RoI wrote:
vedrafjord wrote:There was an interview with his dad where he was saying "Nico needs to up his preparation" and it read pretty much like "my son needs to dope properly if he's going to win big".
Seeing the subtext of doping there is wrong, sorry. I've interviewed Roche Snr and we talked about Jnr and the distinct impression Snr gave was that Jnr isn't all that serious, with this TT efforts the most obvious issue (no TT training for a long time, doesn't prepare himself for the ride mentally immediately ahead of it). Sometimes a cigar really is just a cigar and sometimes preparation really does just mean preparation.


Sure Fmk, Roche told you the truth, just like he tells everyone he never doped. Roche Snr is full of it. :lol:

Roche Snr was never big on preparation but he loved 'preparation'. :D
I know Roche lied to me about doping, he was so eager to lie to me he brought the subject up. I have no illusions on that score: I'm no fan of Roche, of either of them, anybody who knows me knows that, never have been, never will be. What I am saying, however, is that people need to see the context of what was said: he is critical of Jnr's preparation, specifically for time trials. Talk to him and you'll see that. Listen to him and you'll see that. It's in his book, it's in Jnr's book, it's in interviews from both. But, once again, some don't want to see that, some want to see doping, doping, doping, always doping, 24/7, nothing but doping. Well, sadly, sometimes it's not about doping. But, believe what you want, I can't change your mind, all I can do is point out how ludicrous some of the things you say are.


doping doping doping. Well it is the clinic. I have discussed other matters about the sport, but in the relevant parts of the forum.

Some people take a little piece of picture and use that to judge the whole.
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Re:

10 Mar 2017 19:35

Dan2016 wrote:Stephen Roche will always be a cycling god to me. He won the Tour when I first fell in love with the sport.
I met him once and didn't like him as a person at all.

With that pointless anecdote shared I'll get my coat... :D


Me too - it was the first time a nearly British rider got the Yellow jersey! La Plagne will always be in my memory (incidentally happens to be my favourite ski resort - everytime the coach goes up the hairpins I relive the memories).
TheSpud
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Re: Re:

10 Mar 2017 19:35

fmk_RoI wrote:
Benotti69 wrote:
TheSpud wrote:
Benotti69 wrote:Nico writing in the Irish independent

http://www.independent.ie/sport/other-sports/cycling/nicolas-roche-like-froome-i-wouldnt-sign-statement-backing-brailsford-35514769.html
The truth is, in my two years at Team Sky I was never asked to do anything that broke or even bent the anti-doping laws, either legally or ethically.


So hard to say i dont dope, didn't dope and i ride clean.


Maybe, actually, he's telling the truth? But of course that doesn't fit your narrative does it ...


Jeez Martin, I mean Spud, always with the personal attacks always playing the man and not the ball.

Very easy to say i dont and never have doped. Doesn't make it true. Ask Marion, Lance, Carl etc etc....no doubt all your heroes.
But he's writing about the allegations of doping at Team Sky, so what he said is more appropriate than what you and the other New Puritans demand he should say. But, appropriate, who cares, just hang the bastard.


New puritans is that code for bone idle.......

I'll call him out for not calling it simply. Roche claimed to Kimmage he trained for hours on a slice of toast to try and lose weight. Right of course he did. Not hanging anyone today, but lets be under no illusions, puhleeease.
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Re: Re:

10 Mar 2017 19:45

Benotti69 wrote:
TheSpud wrote:
Benotti69 wrote:Nico writing in the Irish independent

http://www.independent.ie/sport/other-sports/cycling/nicolas-roche-like-froome-i-wouldnt-sign-statement-backing-brailsford-35514769.html
The truth is, in my two years at Team Sky I was never asked to do anything that broke or even bent the anti-doping laws, either legally or ethically.


So hard to say i dont dope, didn't dope and i ride clean.


Maybe, actually, he's telling the truth? But of course that doesn't fit your narrative does it ...


Jeez Martin, I mean Spud, always with the personal attacks always playing the man and not the ball.

Very easy to say i dont and never have doped. Doesn't make it true. Ask Marion, Lance, Carl etc etc....no doubt all your heroes.



Carl = Carl Lewis no doubt? No not my hero - too vocal in calling out Johnson (correctly, but hypocritically).
Marion Jones - no thoughts either way, not really in to track and field, but clearly a cheat.
Lance - yeah, I liked the way he rode / won. To be honest I had been off cycling for about 10 years from 94->04, not for any specific reason other than I was just starting working, spent more time skiing, etc. So 2005 was the year I got back in to it - pre big internet days. It made the Tour a great spectacle. Wasnt really until 07/08/09 that paid more attention to things.

Nico Roche? Again no thoughts either way, but he could quite easily have said nothing, not done interviews about Sky. Why come out and say "I'm clean and never saw anything" IF there was a chance he could be caught / implicated? Better to remain silent, keep your head down, take the $.
TheSpud
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Re: Re:

10 Mar 2017 19:50

TheSpud wrote:
Benotti69 wrote:
TheSpud wrote:
Benotti69 wrote:Nico writing in the Irish independent

http://www.independent.ie/sport/other-sports/cycling/nicolas-roche-like-froome-i-wouldnt-sign-statement-backing-brailsford-35514769.html
The truth is, in my two years at Team Sky I was never asked to do anything that broke or even bent the anti-doping laws, either legally or ethically.


So hard to say i dont dope, didn't dope and i ride clean.


Maybe, actually, he's telling the truth? But of course that doesn't fit your narrative does it ...


Jeez Martin, I mean Spud, always with the personal attacks always playing the man and not the ball.

Very easy to say i dont and never have doped. Doesn't make it true. Ask Marion, Lance, Carl etc etc....no doubt all your heroes.



Carl = Carl Lewis no doubt? No not my hero - too vocal in calling out Johnson (correctly, but hypocritically).
Marion Jones - no thoughts either way, not really in to track and field, but clearly a cheat.
Lance - yeah, I liked the way he rode / won. To be honest I had been off cycling for about 10 years from 94->04, not for any specific reason other than I was just starting working, spent more time skiing, etc. So 2005 was the year I got back in to it - pre big internet days. It made the Tour a great spectacle. Wasnt really until 07/08/09 that paid more attention to things.

Nico Roche? Again no thoughts either way, but he could quite easily have said nothing, not done interviews about Sky. Why come out and say "I'm clean and never saw anything" IF there was a chance he could be caught / implicated? Better to remain silent, keep your head down, take the $.


Roche has a team so is building a brand, hence the articles. He also probably wants more than the hotel or cafe bar after he hangs up his bike.

Hence the need to comment, but say little. Branding.
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Re: Re:

10 Mar 2017 19:55

Benotti69 wrote:Roche has a team so is building a brand, hence the articles. He also probably wants more than the hotel or cafe bar after he hangs up his bike.

Hence the need to comment, but say little. Branding.


Interesting point about Nico - do you think he has earnt more as a cyclist than his dad (even accounting for the TDF win)? My impression is the $ are better now (not saying massive, but better)? To be honest if I could retire to a paid for B&B / Hotel in the Alps / Pyrenees with a half decent pension and enjoy the area I used to ride for my job then I would. But hey, thats me.
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Re: Re:

10 Mar 2017 19:57

Benotti69 wrote:Roche claimed to Kimmage he trained for hours on a slice of toast to try and lose weight. Right of course he did. Not hanging anyone today, but lets be under no illusions, puhleeease.
Not hanging? But definitely twisting. He didn't say he trained on a slice of toast to lose weight. And it wasn't just a slice of toast. Puhleeease, do you have to twist everything?
- What have you eaten today?
- This morning I had toast with a bit of butter with some ginger marmalade.
- One slice of toast?
- Yeah, and a cappuccino.
- That's it?
- Yeah.
- And that was before you went for a ride?
- Yeah, I did two hours.
- You didn't eat during the spin?
- Actually, I did. I stopped for a coffee and it came with a little biscotti.
- And nothing since?
- No, but I'm not hungry. I had a good meal last night.
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Re: Re:

10 Mar 2017 20:06

fmk_RoI wrote:
Benotti69 wrote:Roche claimed to Kimmage he trained for hours on a slice of toast to try and lose weight. Right of course he did. Not hanging anyone today, but lets be under no illusions, puhleeease.
Not hanging? But definitely twisting. He didn't say he trained on a slice of toast to lose weight. And it wasn't just a slice of toast. Puhleeease, do you have to twist everything?
- What have you eaten today?
- This morning I had toast with a bit of butter with some ginger marmalade.
- One slice of toast?
- Yeah, and a cappuccino.
- That's it?
- Yeah.
- And that was before you went for a ride?
- Yeah, I did two hours.
- You didn't eat during the spin?
- Actually, I did. I stopped for a coffee and it came with a little biscotti.
- And nothing since?
- No, but I'm not hungry. I had a good meal last night.


So coffee really piles on the calories? FFS sake you are MR Pedantic!!

Have you ever been on the continent. The biscotti is tiny.

2 hour rides, yeah. I bet. :lol:
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10 Mar 2017 20:08

Yip, given the history, all skepticism is fully justified unfortunately.

If riders want to say they are clean they really need to learn to be crystal clear with their language...and they still won't be believed. :)

So what have they got to loose? Sing it from the roof-tops. ''I do not dope. I never have doped. I never will dope. I only eat organic advocado and free-range Yak''.

Join my 'Stop The Farce' movement for change (only me and my teddy-bear are members at the moment).

Legalise doping!

Emancipationz-R-Us.com
Dan2016
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Re: Re:

10 Mar 2017 20:09

TheSpud wrote:
Benotti69 wrote:Roche has a team so is building a brand, hence the articles. He also probably wants more than the hotel or cafe bar after he hangs up his bike.

Hence the need to comment, but say little. Branding.


Interesting point about Nico - do you think he has earnt more as a cyclist than his dad (even accounting for the TDF win)? My impression is the $ are better now (not saying massive, but better)? To be honest if I could retire to a paid for B&B / Hotel in the Alps / Pyrenees with a half decent pension and enjoy the area I used to ride for my job then I would. But hey, thats me.


Got to have the business acumen. Roche Snr probably not hotel management sort.

Roche Jnr appears to be more grounded than his old man and is taking steps for his future while still in the present. Smart? No?
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10 Mar 2017 20:15

What's the hubbub about riding on a bit of toast for brekkie mate Stuey mate? Like Stuey mate, brekkie free mate. Just-lose-the-fat.com
I ride all the time without a morsel for brekkie mate. No probz. 4 hr rides easiez.
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