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Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession)

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26 Jan 2018 23:45

Look man, this has long since passed tedious.

The fact that you feel qualified to take a moral highground, but dropped into “fanboism” after a few posts pretty much makes the point for me.

But whatever, you apologized.

This is pretty simple: I like pretty much anyone on this board know the history of LA. You’re not introducing me to some hidden truths. This isn’t 2004 with new cycling fans.

We’re talking about the present. What can you google up that’s happening now?
aphronesis
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Re: Re:

27 Jan 2018 01:32

ScienceIsCool wrote:
Irondan wrote:
GraftPunk wrote:Technically I'm an atheist, but sure, I'll play catch with the kids if you're too busy (I'm breaking in a new mitt right now, convenient, no?). It's in our our nature to judge, and when it comes to LA, it doesn't take a genius to figure out he isn't the guy you want to invite to your barbecue. But by all means keep defending, we're sort of used to it here.

Why wouldn't I want to invite LA to a barbecue? I think he would be a very interesting character to talk to over a beer, but that's just me personally. Yes, he's a pariah and the poster child of the cycling doping culture but he's still a human being.

Why? Cuz he'd drink Lance-aritas all night while hitting on your wife. You better want to talk about Lance and what he's interested in, because that's all that will be on offer. And when he knocks over that precious vase, he'll get in your face when you confront him.



Yeah, good times.

John Swanson


John .... pal. Where you’re livin there in Canader ... don’t they teach you anything about hospitality? Or are they all a buncha ponces with 177.5 crankarms stuck up their arses?

Ya never know. Lance might apologise (ad nauseum) to you. At least it might also give him a chance to tease out a bit of the bs you promote about some of his actions.

You’re welcome to attend. Will be some other good people there to shoot the breeze ... to talk cycling, fishing, science ... whatever.

I’ll put on the food. Carnivorous to veggie. I’ll also put on the Coronas and Lone Stars and maybe some AKs. ;)

Let me know ... would be great to have you.

Social Science is Cool.
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Re: Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession

27 Jan 2018 02:40

Armstrong on his Forward podcast is interviewing Bryan Fogel from the Icarus documentary. Looks to be very interesting. I don’t mind redemption Lance. Would have him over David Millar redemption version.
User avatar thehog
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27 Jan 2018 02:51

Fogel is a huge Armstrong fanboy. He admits it. He defends Armstrong because "they were all doing it". He has zero cred. The only reason we know his name is that he set out to make a documentary about himself and stumbled onto a largish scandal.
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Re:

27 Jan 2018 04:42

proffate wrote:Fogel is a huge Armstrong fanboy. He admits it. He defends Armstrong because "they were all doing it". He has zero cred. The only reason we know his name is that he set out to make a documentary about himself and stumbled onto a largish scandal.


On what?

Film making? Dogs? Cycling? Pressure to dope? Doping? Doping Scandals? Witness Protection? Art Deco?
Alpe73
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Re: Re:

27 Jan 2018 13:40

Alpe73 wrote:
proffate wrote:Fogel is a huge Armstrong fanboy. He admits it. He defends Armstrong because "they were all doing it". He has zero cred. The only reason we know his name is that he set out to make a documentary about himself and stumbled onto a largish scandal.


On what?

Film making? Dogs? Cycling? Pressure to dope? Doping? Doping Scandals? Witness Protection? Art Deco?


Nominated for an Oscar. At least Fogel gets it. It wasn’t just the Russians, which appears to be the Anglo talking point to absolve of sins on earth.
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Re: Re:

28 Jan 2018 02:53

thehog wrote:
Alpe73 wrote:
proffate wrote:Fogel is a huge Armstrong fanboy. He admits it. He defends Armstrong because "they were all doing it". He has zero cred. The only reason we know his name is that he set out to make a documentary about himself and stumbled onto a largish scandal.


On what?

Film making? Dogs? Cycling? Pressure to dope? Doping? Doping Scandals? Witness Protection? Art Deco?


Nominated for an Oscar. At least Fogel gets it. It wasn’t just the Russians, which appears to be the Anglo talking point to absolve of sins on earth.


Yep ... I thought it was a great documentary.

Ahhhh, ... yes. The Anglos. Waking up each morning with that Western Canon staring you in the face. What to do? The poor dears.

My comment re Outside Online over on Froome thread. What I meant was ... and FMK grasps this clearly, I must add. Yes, there was the pre-downfall fawning by OO and most everyone else in print, as you point out. Post downfall, OO wants to get their pious kick in and help in crushing Armstrong. Like good soldiers ... being made aware of the of the Livestrong collateral damage that was being perpetrated by them ... their notion ... eg. Gifford and Heard, is ... “war is hell.” TDF 2017 ... they’re best buds with Lance again. Hence the flip flopping observation ... which is not surprising from a publication whose main motivation is to make money. However, it surely does call into question their journalistic credibility/integrity.

In addition, one of their big ticket cycling/Lance items ... the Livestrong investigative article .... was such a weak, pallid, flaccid piece of shyte. Sure ... it was giddiness-inducing cannon fodder for the Clinic hyper-vigilantes (their impacted adenoid-toned voice imploring ... “Negatory ... they don’t do reeeeeeee-search ... reeeee-search.”) FFS. Throw them a fish, someone.

So whenever OO starts preaching the end of days .... don’t lose your mouthful of coffee over your laptop screen.
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Re: Re:

28 Jan 2018 15:32

Alpe73 wrote:
proffate wrote:Fogel is a huge Armstrong fanboy. He admits it. He defends Armstrong because "they were all doing it". He has zero cred. The only reason we know his name is that he set out to make a documentary about himself and stumbled onto a largish scandal.


On what?

Film making? Dogs? Cycling? Pressure to dope? Doping? Doping Scandals? Witness Protection? Art Deco?


doping. Like anyone who's "covering" it, he's spinning the narrative. He wants to make it OK to like Lance again, restoring his "wins" in at least a spiritual sense. He should be paid no attention.
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Re: Re:

28 Jan 2018 15:39

proffate wrote:
Alpe73 wrote:
proffate wrote:Fogel is a huge Armstrong fanboy. He admits it. He defends Armstrong because "they were all doing it". He has zero cred. The only reason we know his name is that he set out to make a documentary about himself and stumbled onto a largish scandal.


On what?

Film making? Dogs? Cycling? Pressure to dope? Doping? Doping Scandals? Witness Protection? Art Deco?


doping. Like anyone who's "covering" it, he's spinning the narrative. He wants to make it OK to like Lance again, restoring his "wins" in at least a spiritual sense. He should be paid no attention.


That cat is like ... way outa the feckin bag, bro. No stuffing that baby back.
Alpe73
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Re: Re:

28 Jan 2018 17:39

Alpe73 wrote:
thehog wrote:
Alpe73 wrote:
proffate wrote:Fogel is a huge Armstrong fanboy. He admits it. He defends Armstrong because "they were all doing it". He has zero cred. The only reason we know his name is that he set out to make a documentary about himself and stumbled onto a largish scandal.


On what?

Film making? Dogs? Cycling? Pressure to dope? Doping? Doping Scandals? Witness Protection? Art Deco?


Nominated for an Oscar. At least Fogel gets it. It wasn’t just the Russians, which appears to be the Anglo talking point to absolve of sins on earth.


Yep ... I thought it was a great documentary.

Ahhhh, ... yes. The Anglos. Waking up each morning with that Western Canon staring you in the face. What to do? The poor dears.

My comment re Outside Online over on Froome thread. What I meant was ... and FMK grasps this clearly, I must add. Yes, there was the pre-downfall fawning by OO and most everyone else in print, as you point out. Post downfall, OO wants to get their pious kick in and help in crushing Armstrong. Like good soldiers ... being made aware of the of the Livestrong collateral damage that was being perpetrated by them ... their notion ... eg. Gifford and Heard, is ... “war is hell.” TDF 2017 ... they’re best buds with Lance again. Hence the flip flopping observation ... which is not surprising from a publication whose main motivation is to make money. However, it surely does call into question their journalistic credibility/integrity.

In addition, one of their big ticket cycling/Lance items ... the Livestrong investigative article .... was such a weak, pallid, flaccid piece of shyte. Sure ... it was giddiness-inducing cannon fodder for the Clinic hyper-vigilantes (their impacted adenoid-toned voice imploring ... “Negatory ... they don’t do reeeeeeee-search ... reeeee-search.”) FFS. Throw them a fish, someone.

So whenever OO starts preaching the end of days .... don’t lose your mouthful of coffee over your laptop screen.


One good thing about cycling is that very, very few media outlets are dependent upon the sport for revenue. The reporters can therefore cheerily tout the superheroes on their way up as they record superhuman alien efforts, and then cheerily debunk the fraudulent cheaters as they plummet into the abyss.

Websites like this one have to be very careful. They are compelled by their business model to promote the sport, otherwise they'll help kill the goose that lays the (somewhat) golden egg. On the other hand, if they don't cover doping, they lose a lot of viewers to other outlets that give coverage to doping. This website artificially segregates doping talk from the racing talk (as if they were not inextricably intertwined in reality) so that they can maximize viewership.

Coverage of Launce has really illustrated this for me. Dungheads Phil Liggett and Bob Roll are the perfect example. Their economic self-interest had them honoring their hero long after his downfall was readily apparent to everyone else in the world.

Fans are going to love the sport, regardless of the doping. It is fun watching them argue with each other over whose self-delusion is the best. The ones who proclaim that they are not at all deluded are the best!
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Re:

29 Jan 2018 10:34

proffate wrote:Fogel is a huge Armstrong fanboy. He admits it. He defends Armstrong because "they were all doing it". He has zero cred. The only reason we know his name is that he set out to make a documentary about himself and stumbled onto a largish scandal.


While I agree he had some negative qualities about him, as most ultra competitive amateurs tend to show. He is also a Lance fan boy, but he is also a realist who sees the bigger picture
This weeks blog covers Israel Cycling, women's cycling welfare, and I try not get started on World Tour field size. http://sbbcolumns.co.uk/letstalkcycling-muses/ :D
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01 Feb 2018 11:15

Man, I thought the crusaders would be all over this one and its implications

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/lance-armstrong-invited-to-pantani-gran-fondo-to-celebrate-1998-giro-tour-double/

And Alpe is off for a week.
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Re:

01 Feb 2018 11:38

aphronesis wrote:Man, I thought the crusaders would be all over this one and its implications

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/lance-armstrong-invited-to-pantani-gran-fondo-to-celebrate-1998-giro-tour-double/

And Alpe is off for a week.

Doper goes to a dope fest
where's the polemic?

No-one in Italy serious challenges the idea the Pantani wasn't doping.
It's just not a polite topic of conversation.
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Re: Re:

01 Feb 2018 11:46

TourOfSardinia wrote:
aphronesis wrote:Man, I thought the crusaders would be all over this one and its implications

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/lance-armstrong-invited-to-pantani-gran-fondo-to-celebrate-1998-giro-tour-double/

And Alpe is off for a week.

Doper goes to a dope fest
where's the polemic?

No-one in Italy serious challenges the idea the Pantani wasn't doping.
It's just not a polite topic of conversation.


That and the fact that Italy, in the face of an increasingly dominated Anglo market, just can't come to terms with the need for certain appearences. Ma che problema c'è?
Last edited by rhubroma on 01 Feb 2018 15:20, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Re:

01 Feb 2018 12:05

TourOfSardinia wrote:
aphronesis wrote:Man, I thought the crusaders would be all over this one and its implications

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/lance-armstrong-invited-to-pantani-gran-fondo-to-celebrate-1998-giro-tour-double/

And Alpe is off for a week.

Doper goes to a dope fest
where's the polemic?

No-one in Italy serious challenges the idea the Pantani wasn't doping.
It's just not a polite topic of conversation.


Although I haven’t lived there in awhile, I’m aware of the Italian context and things change more slowly.

Italian reception is not really my point, flipping rhub’s post a bit, (and w/o riling anyone) it poses a problem for the new Anglo/Am narrative that wants to repress that decade and how it slots into the overall history of cycling
aphronesis
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Re: Re:

01 Feb 2018 15:46

aphronesis wrote:
TourOfSardinia wrote:
aphronesis wrote:Man, I thought the crusaders would be all over this one and its implications

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/lance-armstrong-invited-to-pantani-gran-fondo-to-celebrate-1998-giro-tour-double/

And Alpe is off for a week.

Doper goes to a dope fest
where's the polemic?

No-one in Italy serious challenges the idea the Pantani wasn't doping.
It's just not a polite topic of conversation.


Although I haven’t lived there in awhile, I’m aware of the Italian context and things change more slowly.

Italian reception is not really my point, flipping rhub’s post a bit, (and w/o riling anyone) it poses a problem for the new Anglo/Am narrative that wants to repress that decade and how it slots into the overall history of cycling


Well without Italy having one Wold Tour team, it can only fall back on nostalgia. Italy is no longer a major financal player. Sure it has its World Tour events, its cycling history, but it has largely been relogated to the "picturesque" with Strade Bianche and this sort of Pantani festival. Italy simply couldn't keep up with the corporatization of cycling and its agenda to reach global markets. Practically no pro team is using Campi anymore, its all Dura-Ace. The days of Guido Bontempi are long a thing of the past.

Perhaps more then repressing the decade, as far as the current Anglo dominated narrative is concerned it's about a self-declared ethicalness (with Murdock media sponsorship in tow) to assume a leadership role of a movement in peril. In this sense the cultural parameters dovetale nicely into the business interests,

At any rate, you have to admire the candid sincerity of inviting Armstrong to a Pantani festival.
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Re: Re:

02 Feb 2018 13:54

MarkvW wrote:
Alpe73 wrote:
thehog wrote:
Alpe73 wrote:
proffate wrote:Fogel is a huge Armstrong fanboy. He admits it. He defends Armstrong because "they were all doing it". He has zero cred. The only reason we know his name is that he set out to make a documentary about himself and stumbled onto a largish scandal.


On what?

Film making? Dogs? Cycling? Pressure to dope? Doping? Doping Scandals? Witness Protection? Art Deco?


Nominated for an Oscar. At least Fogel gets it. It wasn’t just the Russians, which appears to be the Anglo talking point to absolve of sins on earth.


Yep ... I thought it was a great documentary.

Ahhhh, ... yes. The Anglos. Waking up each morning with that Western Canon staring you in the face. What to do? The poor dears.

My comment re Outside Online over on Froome thread. What I meant was ... and FMK grasps this clearly, I must add. Yes, there was the pre-downfall fawning by OO and most everyone else in print, as you point out. Post downfall, OO wants to get their pious kick in and help in crushing Armstrong. Like good soldiers ... being made aware of the of the Livestrong collateral damage that was being perpetrated by them ... their notion ... eg. Gifford and Heard, is ... “war is hell.” TDF 2017 ... they’re best buds with Lance again. Hence the flip flopping observation ... which is not surprising from a publication whose main motivation is to make money. However, it surely does call into question their journalistic credibility/integrity.

In addition, one of their big ticket cycling/Lance items ... the Livestrong investigative article .... was such a weak, pallid, flaccid piece of shyte. Sure ... it was giddiness-inducing cannon fodder for the Clinic hyper-vigilantes (their impacted adenoid-toned voice imploring ... “Negatory ... they don’t do reeeeeeee-search ... reeeee-search.”) FFS. Throw them a fish, someone.

So whenever OO starts preaching the end of days .... don’t lose your mouthful of coffee over your laptop screen.


One good thing about cycling is that very, very few media outlets are dependent upon the sport for revenue. The reporters can therefore cheerily tout the superheroes on their way up as they record superhuman alien efforts, and then cheerily debunk the fraudulent cheaters as they plummet into the abyss.

Websites like this one have to be very careful. They are compelled by their business model to promote the sport, otherwise they'll help kill the goose that lays the (somewhat) golden egg. On the other hand, if they don't cover doping, they lose a lot of viewers to other outlets that give coverage to doping. This website artificially segregates doping talk from the racing talk (as if they were not inextricably intertwined in reality) so that they can maximize viewership.

Coverage of Launce has really illustrated this for me. Dungheads Phil Liggett and Bob Roll are the perfect example. Their economic self-interest had them honoring their hero long after his downfall was readily apparent to everyone else in the world.

[b]Fans are going to love the sport, regardless of the doping. It is fun watching them argue with each other over whose self-delusion is the best. The ones who proclaim that they are not at all deluded are the best!



Amen to that!
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02 Feb 2018 15:07

I've recently watched again each of Armstrong crazy attacks from 1999-2005, most of them fit so well Varjas' story and the "140w for 5 minutes" in Brunel's book, I'm now SURE he did use a motor. Of course, this was on top of EPO/BBs/testosterone who allowed him to be in the front group.

But motor was the way to LEAVE the front group (and make them look like juniors), I'm now sure of that.

Sestriere 1999
Hautacam 2000
Ventoux 2000 to catch Pantani
Alpe Huez 2001
Beille 2002
Luz Adiden 2003
etc.
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03 Feb 2018 08:55

Phil Liggett mentioned Lance in the commentary of stage 2 of the Herald Sun Tour. He mustn't have got the memo.
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Re: Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession

03 Feb 2018 16:40

Collab with Rapha... should make everyone happy. LeMond never had a collaboration with Rapha :cool:

Image
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