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Wiggins, Clinic respect?

The Clinic is the only place on Cyclingnews where you can discuss doping-related issues. Ask questions, discuss positives or improvements to procedures.

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Re: Re:

26 Nov 2017 19:56

pastronef wrote:
Digger wrote:
samhocking wrote:
70kmph wrote:He saying if it's Fluimucil in the bag it would also contain needles and B vitamins

Freeman and Brailsford say its Fluimucil that's for a nebulizer and there's nothing else in the package, because a Doctor in possession of needles at a race faces a 5 year prison sentence

That would explain why Wiggo says he never sees the bag, riders is also subject to the needles charge


My understanding is Fluimicil in suspension form is what is used as deconjestant when nebulized and the same suspension can be injected an anti-oxident too. Clearly the team were heading directly to the training camp that evening. Just my hunch, but I think Phil Bert packaged everything Freeman was low on and would be against no-needles policy while at Dauphine. He wouldn't have had B12 as that would be evidnce of needles and he wouldn't have had Fluimicil in suspension as that could also be seen as breaking no-needles policy. Needles would also be required for any legal IV recovery at the training camp after midnight which is when the UCI period of competition and the no-needles rule ends.
I honestly think the whistleblower to Lawton got his story wrong. 6 years ago, he remembers a package, he remembers needles and he remembers Wiggins going on the bus. The Fancy Bears TUE was published, he put two and two together and assumed the package was Triamcinlone. He could be correct, but there's a lot more sense to the committee whistleblower than Lawton's. At least in terms of a believable story. If we've learnt anything, it's Sky appear to walk right up to the line of what is legal. Delivery of needles a few hours before midnight once the Dauphine finished crossed that line and this is why much of what came from Brailsford originally didn't make sense, because he knows they broke the no-needles policy introduced just a coulple of months earlier at Giro, even if nothing was ever injected until next day at the training camp and would have been within the rules.


Your understanding, as you say yourself, is wishful thinking in the extreme. It was kenacort.

Now can you address the testosterone patches.


whistleblower #1 to Committee: Fluimucil

whistleblower #2 to Lawton: Kenacort

maybe
maybe not

who to believe?
#1? #2? #Digger?

digger knows more?
digger knows less?

wishful thinking too?


Considering Sky lied about Cope doing a delivery to Pooley, then changing the story to Wiggins not being on the bus.....who to believe is easy. Sky said it was Fliumucil. So it has to be Kenacort. As i said easy.
User avatar Benotti69
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Re: Wiggins, Clinic respect?

26 Nov 2017 20:14

it has to be. ok
but is it really?
will we ever know?
how can it be demonstrated?

(I know, it's banter, it's just me against the windmills. at the end of the day I don't want to hear the Sky accusers saying "we were right". it'll be fun until it lasts) ;)
pastronef
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27 Nov 2017 17:34

Any possibility that Whistleblower 2 ( who contacted the Parliamentary Committee ) was a Sky sympathiser or even planted by Sky ?
yaco
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Re:

27 Nov 2017 17:45

yaco wrote:Any possibility that Whistleblower 2 ( who contacted the Parliamentary Committee ) was a Sky sympathiser or even planted by Sky ?


you mean whistleblower 1, contacted the Committee)

so would we prefer to believe what we like more?

the whistleblower 1 wrote to the Committee and warned them about no-needle policy possibly being broken. he didnt just say "fluimucil"
pastronef
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Re: Re:

27 Nov 2017 21:50

yaco wrote:Any possibility that Whistleblower 2 ( who contacted the Parliamentary Committee ) was a Sky sympathiser or even planted by Sky ?


Yep. Brailsford's dead hand in #2's statement. Deflection tactics. Muddy the waters. Running interference



pastronef wrote:
yaco wrote:Any possibility that Whistleblower 2 ( who contacted the Parliamentary Committee ) was a Sky sympathiser or even planted by Sky ?


you mean whistleblower 1, contacted the Committee)

so would we prefer to believe what we like more?

the whistleblower 1 wrote to the Committee and warned them about no-needle policy possibly being broken. he didnt just say "fluimucil"


Nope. #1 started the saga by talking to UKAD and Lawton. #2's statement was months later after the DCMS committee had stopped interviewing wintesses
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06 Dec 2017 06:11

Rehabilitation begins!
http://www.bbc.com/sport/cycling/42246162
from Brian Cookson
:o
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Re: Wiggins, Clinic respect?

06 Dec 2017 06:57

Salbutamol - Breakfast of Champions!
"Are you going to believe me or what you see with your own eyes?"
Choco Loco for all your doping tips!
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Re:

06 Dec 2017 10:57

TourOfSardinia wrote:Rehabilitation begins!
http://www.bbc.com/sport/cycling/42246162
from Brian Cookson
:o


:rolleyes:

Would that be the same Cookson who kept Zorzoli in place signing off dodgy TUEs just long enough for Wiggo to win the TdF...?
Wiggo's Package
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06 Dec 2017 13:39

When I saw the headline that Cookson was calling for Wiggins' reputation to be reinstated I assumed he was talking about his well-deserved reputation for riding up mountains at the same speed as Cavendish

Anyway, how long before Brad calls for Cookson's reputation to be reinstated ?
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Re:

06 Dec 2017 15:38

Eyeballs Out wrote:When I saw the headline that Cookson was calling for Wiggins' reputation to be reinstated I assumed he was talking about his well-deserved reputation for riding up mountains at the same speed as Cavendish

Anyway, how long before Brad calls for Cookson's reputation to be reinstated ?


Nothing goes with such a sad situation quite like mutual back-rubs.
The poster formerly known as yespatterns.
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06 Dec 2017 15:59

A funny day all round - Cookson calling for Wiggin's reputation to be restored which is an impossible task, then Russia banned from the 2018 Winter Olympics after their shenanigans at Sochi 2014 which should never have happened if WADA/IOC acted on solid informaton from thejournalist Nick Harris in July 2013 - You can't make this up.
Last edited by yaco on 06 Dec 2017 18:20, edited 1 time in total.
yaco
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06 Dec 2017 16:12

Scraping the bottom of the barrel when your main supporter just got thrashed in an election as leader of your sport after being the leader for one term. British cycling getting worse by the day.
Craigee
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Re:

07 Dec 2017 14:40

Craigee wrote:Scraping the bottom of the barrel when your main supporter just got thrashed in an election as leader of your sport after being the leader for one term. British cycling getting worse by the day.


I remember when the BCF as it was then was run by Ian Emerson of Impsport and Doug Dailey and was largely a fringe sport in the UK revolving around the Leicester track. Then came Team Brite & Linda Macartney

Then came Manchester, the World class performance plan, Academy etc etc and as British Cycling morphed into the empire it is today and so did the ego's of all those involved. The money didn't just go to their heads but so did the fame & hero worship.

Typified it to to me when at a TOB start in Epsom a few years back all the teams were milling around with the fans, signing autographs and chatting and Team Sky waited on their bus with curtains pulled till the very last minute in order to 'build the hype' and largely ignored their waiting fans as they jumped on their steeds to sign on. SKY/BC really are so far up their own backsides its unreal.
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Re:

08 Dec 2017 00:59

Craigee wrote:Scraping the bottom of the barrel when your main supporter just got thrashed in an election as leader of your sport after being the leader for one term. British cycling getting worse by the day.

Not really. Cookson is a career civil servant. Lappartient is a career politician.

Who wins an election shouldn't be in doubt. Who does the best job certainly is.
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Re: Re:

08 Dec 2017 19:36

Parker wrote:
Craigee wrote:Scraping the bottom of the barrel when your main supporter just got thrashed in an election as leader of your sport after being the leader for one term. British cycling getting worse by the day.

Not really. Cookson is a career civil servant. Lappartient is a career politician.

Who wins an election shouldn't be in doubt. Who does the best job certainly is.


Career civil servant? Since when?

Cookson been in sporting administration since 1981.

He made a balls up of his presidency, but then don't they all. Too much time counting and bagging money.
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Re: Wiggins, Clinic respect?

11 Dec 2017 08:19

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rowing/42294271

Hasnt he learnt from the past? Stay at home man and count your money!
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Re: Wiggins, Clinic respect?

11 Dec 2017 08:49

MartinGT wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rowing/42294271
Hasnt he learnt from the past? Stay at home man and count your money!

It's an excellent 2000m time for someone whose sport isn't rowing. I rowed crew in college before I was a cyclist, and I never got 6:22

Problem for Wiggo will be that it gets exponentially harder, and indoor times on an ergometer don't translate directly to performance on the water.

"I might be being a bit delusional, but the times suggest I'm not," he said. "I'm going to see how far I can take it. Maybe a sixth Olympic gold?"


Not even remotely close to the Olympic level at this point, so yeah, "a bit delusional" on his part if he wants to make it there within one year. So much of the sport is technique and synchronization, pulling on an ergometer with no oar requires not much skill in comparison.
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Re: Wiggins, Clinic respect?

11 Dec 2017 09:28

ClassicomanoLuigi wrote:
MartinGT wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rowing/42294271
Hasnt he learnt from the past? Stay at home man and count your money!

It's an excellent 2000m time for someone whose sport isn't rowing. I rowed crew in college before I was a cyclist, and I never got 6:22

Problem for Wiggo will be that it gets exponentially harder, and indoor times on an ergometer don't translate directly to performance on the water.

"I might be being a bit delusional, but the times suggest I'm not," he said. "I'm going to see how far I can take it. Maybe a sixth Olympic gold?"


Not even remotely close to the Olympic level at this point, so yeah, "a bit delusional" on his part if he wants to make it there within one year. So much of the sport is technique and synchronization, pulling on an ergometer with no oar requires not much skill in comparison.


he trained a bit year ago https://twitter.com/SirWiggo/status/936599108822892545
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Re: Wiggins, Clinic respect?

11 Dec 2017 11:56



Looking at Wiggins' 500-meter splits, doesn't support his statement about the imagined false-start to the rowing being the cause of his difficulty :

21 Bradley Wiggins

500m 01:31.5 (35)
1000m 01:33.7 (33)
1500m 01:37.2 (30)
2000m 01:40.1 (29) 06:22.5

Because Wiggins was fading all the way, with each 500-meter split getting slower than the previous one
Whereas among every single one of the top-10 finishers in this event, their 4th split from 1500 - 2000m was their fastest. The top rowers were saving something in reserve to kick in for the final few hundred meters.

This looks to have been an "Open" class indoor race because the finishers around 80th - 99th place (out of 100 starters), those times are not even competitive at the college varsity level. So there probably was not a qualification to get in to the event

Wiggins' power profile at this time, is more suitable to a six-hour event than a six-minute event, that would be a reasonable observation.
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11 Dec 2017 22:35

There is no way to master a technic sport to compete against the best in just more a couple of years.
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