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Wiggins, Clinic respect?

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Re: Wiggins, Clinic respect?

22 Feb 2018 12:49

Perhaps long-forgotten now, but the Jiffy bag investigation is supposedly still ongoing at UKAD believe it or not via the evidence found. That is why UKAD didn't have to release Sky & BC documents under a FOI request about the case after closing the investigation on Sky & BC Jiffy bag, because parts of it was being used elsewhere in follow-up work iirc. This is also why Wiggins months ago said the same thing, that when he is allowed to, he will have his say on what happened. From his recent words yesterday, it sounds like UKAD will now fully close the investigation on him too and Wiggins is then free to talk about it.
samhocking
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Re: Wiggins, Clinic respect?

22 Feb 2018 13:04

samhocking wrote:Perhaps long-forgotten now, but the Jiffy bag investigation is supposedly still ongoing at UKAD believe it or not via the evidence found. That is why UKAD didn't have to release Sky & BC documents under a FOI request about the case after closing the investigation on Sky & BC Jiffy bag, because parts of it was being used elsewhere in follow-up work iirc. This is also why Wiggins months ago said the same thing, that when he is allowed to, he will have his say on what happened. From his recent words yesterday, it sounds like UKAD will now fully close the investigation on him too and Wiggins is then free to talk about it.


Free to confess his usage of doping products? Doubtful.
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22 Feb 2018 13:50

That was for UKAD to confirm though wasn't it?
I would imagine UKAD could be withholding the FOI after closing the BC & Sky side is in relation to Wiggins more directly, if he's still remaining silent. Remember Wiggins is still suing UKAD I believe, so although UKAD denied the FOI for the Sky & BC data, by saying the release would be evidence and weaken their intelligence for their follow up work to the jiffy bag, it might also be they don't want Wiggins legal team to have it, as some of it might strengthen Wiggins case against them at CAS later down the line.
My personal opinion is less conspiracy-founded though and the information doesn't relate to Wiggins they are holding, but to something else, but because of that, Wiggins can't yet say anything otherwise it would jeopardise a separate case leading on from jiffy bag. Perhaps that Oldham sports supplies shop delivering Testosterone accidentally would be the obvious lead for UKAD to follow up after the Jiffy Bag case. If I was Sapstead anyway that's where I would heading now.
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Re:

22 Feb 2018 14:56

samhocking wrote:That was for UKAD to confirm though wasn't it?
I would imagine UKAD could be withholding the FOI after closing the BC & Sky side is in relation to Wiggins more directly, if he's still remaining silent. Remember Wiggins is still suing UKAD I believe, so although UKAD denied the FOI for the Sky & BC data, by saying the release would be evidence and weaken their intelligence for their follow up work to the jiffy bag, it might also be they don't want Wiggins legal team to have it, as some of it might strengthen Wiggins case against them at CAS later down the line.
My personal opinion is less conspiracy-founded though and the information doesn't relate to Wiggins they are holding, but to something else, but because of that, Wiggins can't yet say anything otherwise it would jeopardise a separate case leading on from jiffy bag. Perhaps that Oldham sports supplies shop delivering Testosterone accidentally would be the obvious lead for UKAD to follow up after the Jiffy Bag case. If I was Sapstead anyway that's where I would heading now.


UKAD have ended their jiffybag investigation. Letters confirming the same have been sent to Sky and BC. UKAD's last action was to refer Freeman's conduct to the GMC but no revelations of interest to the cycling fraternity will come from that. Freeman might get a slapped wrist from the GMC but he's not in Harold Shipman territory

Chances of UKAD looking into the testosterone patches are zero. Remember UKAD do not have investigative powers. They cannot compel any person or entity to provide evidence or even to speak to them. They can only make polite enquires and take what they're given. Anyone up to no good has plenty of time to clean house. Or they can simply ignore UKAD

Lastly Collins is typing up the DCMS doping is sport enquiry report. Can't see him re-opening the evidence stage and hauling the testosterone patches company into Parliament. He at least has powers to compel people to turn up. But as we've seen it's easy enough to fudge your answers to Collins' questions as long as you don't mind looking dodgy as all hell. The lesser of two evils when the alternative is TdF titles and knighthoods returned to sender
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Re: Wiggins, Clinic respect?

22 Feb 2018 17:16

UKADS own explanation for not releasing the information under FOI after Sky & BC side of the jiffy bag was closed was this "releasing the letters would impede its ability to investigate offences and leave it open to legal action".

So, something is still being investigated and why Wiggins remains silent, but will soon be allowed to speak, even though his side of things are over now. I assume some evidence following on from the jiffy bag investigation exposes the organisation to subsequent legal action from others given their statement. Clearly it is not BC or Sky they are exposed to legally, because they were sent those letters, so it must be either Wiggins, Cope, Sutton or Freeman, or someone else related to the jiffy bag follow on investigation that might be and/or the jiffy bag case is still ongoing with is perhaps able to sue UKAD with if they released the investigation letters?

In light of the above, Wiggins has said a couple of things that seem out of place, unexpected even, given we are told the investigation is over with BC & Sky & him. I would say the legal story has been told from Sky's side, but the real jiffy bag story is about to unfold pretty soon perhaps via Wiggins. I don't think it's PEDS neccesarily, but I do think its related to needles/IV in the package.

1. Wiggins said he is suing UKAD
2. When he does get to finally speak he said "What I have to say will shock a few people"
3. He said that Marginal gains was all rubbish, you go ride your bike, put the work in, and you’re either good or you’re not good.
4. That Sky will destroy you
5. Then the last word he had yesterday when asked about the Froome case was "I'm going to have my say on that very soon".

Now backtrack to Cath Wiggins tweet when Froome story broke:

"If I was given to conspiracy theory, I’d allege they’d thrown my boy under the bus on purpose to cover for this slithering reptile."

Seems a strange thing to say 'cover for' when Wiggins Fluamicil story is 7 years before Froomes Salbutomol story? I know she deleted and apologised, but if I was a betting man and given to Cath Wiggins conspiracy theory, Froome's rise to his 2011 Vuelta breakthrough, when he was on his knees up and down with leaders a nobody just a few months before in Tour de Suisse 2011 the other side of the mountain while all this was playing out in La Toussuire is perhaps the actual story yet to be told here in relation to the jiffy bag and this is what Wiggins relates to when he says what he will say will shock and he will have is say on Froome very soon?
Froome entering mountains in Suisse on 12th June when Dauphine ended was geographically the closest Suisse got to Dauphine at La Toussier. Crans-Montana finish on 12 June is the other side of Mont Blanc. Froome was already not in 2011 Tour de France team, didn't have a Sky contract for 2012 iirc, has said he wasn't being paid a leaders salary at Sky either. Turn the clock forward 12 weeks from Suisse to his Vuelta, who's performance was drastically the opposite to his Suisse performance, whereas Wiggins Tour de France performance was unchanged to his Dauphine performance? What else other than the training camp might explain Froome's sudden change in form?
That is my take on what is about to happen. The story is true, something incriminating is in that jiffy bag, but I think it realates to Froome just over the mountain and Wiggins Fluamicil being in the package was the cover story and the insider who whistleblowed has actually got his story right, but his players wrong.
Last edited by samhocking on 22 Feb 2018 18:35, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Wiggins, Clinic respect?

22 Feb 2018 18:32

samhocking wrote:UKADS own explanation for not releasing the information under FOI after Sky & BC side of the jiffy bag was closed was this "releasing the letters would impede its ability to investigate offences and leave it open to legal action".

So, something is still being investigated and why Wiggins remains silent, but will soon be allowed to speak, even though his side of things are over now. I assume some evidence following on from the jiffy bag investigation exposes the organisation to subsequent legal action from others given their statement. Clearly it is not BC or Sky they are exposed to legally, because they were sent those letters, so it must be either Wiggins, Cope, Sutton or Freeman, or someone else related to the jiffy bag follow on investigation that might be and/or the jiffy bag case is still ongoing with is perhaps able to sue UKAD with if they knew?

In light of the above, Wiggins has said a couple of things that seem out of place, unexpected even, given we are told the investigation is over with BC & Sky & him. I would say the legal story has been told, but the real jiffy bag story is about to unfold pretty soon perhaps. I don't think it's PEDS neccesarily, but I do think its related to needles/IV in the package.

1. Wiggins said he is suing UKAD
2. When he does get to finally speak he said "What I have to say will shock a few people"
3. He said that Marginal gains was all rubbish, you go ride your bike, put the work in, and you’re either good or you’re not good.
4. That Sky will destroy you
5. Then the last word he had yesterday when asked about the Froome case was "I'm going to have my say on that very soon".

Now backtrack to Cath Wiggins when Froome story broke:

"If I was given to conspiracy theory, I’d allege they’d thrown my boy under the bus on purpose to cover for this slithering reptile."

Seems a strange thing to say 'cover for' when Wiggins Fluamicil story is 7 years before Froomes Salbutomol story? I know she deleted and apologised, but if I was a betting man and given to Cath Wiggins conspiracy theory, Froome's rise to his 2011 Vuelta breakthrough, when he was on his knees up and down with leaders a nobody just a few months before in Tour de Suisse 2011 the other side of the mountain while all this was playing out in La Toussuire is perhaps the actual story yet to be told here in relation to the jiffy bag and this is what Wiggins relates to when he says what he will say will shock and he will have is say on Froome very soon?
Froome entering mountains in Suisse on 12th June when Dauphine ended was geograhovcially the closest Suisse got to Dauphine at La Toussier. Crans-Montana is the other side of Mont Blanc. Froome was already not in 2011 Tour de France team, didn't have a Sky contract for 2012 iirc, has said he wasn't being paid a leaders salary at Sky either. Turn the clock forward 12 weeks or so to his Vuelta, who's performance was the drastically the opposite to his Suisse performance, whereas Wiggins Tour de France performance was unchanged to his Dauphine performance?
That is my take on what is about to happen. The story is true, something incriminating is in that jiffy bag, but I think it realates to Froome just over the mountain and Wiggins Fluamicil being in the package was the cover story and the insider who whistleblowed has actually got his story right, but his players wrong.


Hopefully we will find out the truth wether it implicates or exonerates people. Unfortunately that will most likely not happen without a whistleblower from the inside going public. Maybe Wiggo is the person to do that and maybe not, but one thing is certain, the current processes will not lead us to the truth.
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22 Feb 2018 18:52

Looking forward to sir wiggo stepping up......or not.
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Re: Wiggins, Clinic respect?

22 Feb 2018 18:54

samhocking wrote:UKADS own explanation for not releasing the information under FOI after Sky & BC side of the jiffy bag was closed was this "releasing the letters would impede its ability to investigate offences and leave it open to legal action".

So, something is still being investigated and why Wiggins remains silent, but will soon be allowed to speak, even though his side of things are over now. I assume some evidence following on from the jiffy bag investigation exposes the organisation to subsequent legal action from others given their statement. Clearly it is not BC or Sky they are exposed to legally, because they were sent those letters, so it must be either Wiggins, Cope, Sutton or Freeman, or someone else related to the jiffy bag follow on investigation that might be and/or the jiffy bag case is still ongoing with is perhaps able to sue UKAD with if they released the investigation letters?

In light of the above, Wiggins has said a couple of things that seem out of place, unexpected even, given we are told the investigation is over with BC & Sky & him. I would say the legal story has been told from Sky's side, but the real jiffy bag story is about to unfold pretty soon perhaps via Wiggins. I don't think it's PEDS neccesarily, but I do think its related to needles/IV in the package.

1. Wiggins said he is suing UKAD
2. When he does get to finally speak he said "What I have to say will shock a few people"
3. He said that Marginal gains was all rubbish, you go ride your bike, put the work in, and you’re either good or you’re not good.
4. That Sky will destroy you
5. Then the last word he had yesterday when asked about the Froome case was "I'm going to have my say on that very soon".

Now backtrack to Cath Wiggins tweet when Froome story broke:

"If I was given to conspiracy theory, I’d allege they’d thrown my boy under the bus on purpose to cover for this slithering reptile."

Seems a strange thing to say 'cover for' when Wiggins Fluamicil story is 7 years before Froomes Salbutomol story? I know she deleted and apologised, but if I was a betting man and given to Cath Wiggins conspiracy theory, Froome's rise to his 2011 Vuelta breakthrough, when he was on his knees up and down with leaders a nobody just a few months before in Tour de Suisse 2011 the other side of the mountain while all this was playing out in La Toussuire is perhaps the actual story yet to be told here in relation to the jiffy bag and this is what Wiggins relates to when he says what he will say will shock and he will have is say on Froome very soon?
Froome entering mountains in Suisse on 12th June when Dauphine ended was geographically the closest Suisse got to Dauphine at La Toussier. Crans-Montana finish on 12 June is the other side of Mont Blanc. Froome was already not in 2011 Tour de France team, didn't have a Sky contract for 2012 iirc, has said he wasn't being paid a leaders salary at Sky either. Turn the clock forward 12 weeks from Suisse to his Vuelta, who's performance was drastically the opposite to his Suisse performance, whereas Wiggins Tour de France performance was unchanged to his Dauphine performance? What else other than the training camp might explain Froome's sudden change in form?
That is my take on what is about to happen. The story is true, something incriminating is in that jiffy bag, but I think it realates to Froome just over the mountain and Wiggins Fluamicil being in the package was the cover story and the insider who whistleblowed has actually got his story right, but his players wrong.


Sam, that is a genuinely interesting and thought provoking post rather than the usual knee jerk instant rebuttal stuff, thank you (or whoever's hacked your account ;) )

Can't help feeling you've been spending too much time in The Clinic. But that tinfoil hat fits you very well, sir :razz:

Gentle leg pulling aside, I think the flaw in your theory is that the whistleblower was at the time of jiffygate and for a very long time after (far too long) at the centre of things calling the shots. He knew exactly what he was going on when the package was in transit. And he knew exactly what he was doing and why when he blew the whistle

Now the whistleblower's "why" is a really interesting bit of the jiffybag story. And one that AFAIK has not yet made it into the public domain...
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22 Feb 2018 18:59

I don't know, it's a pretty out there conspiracy from me, but that was my thoughts on the Jiffy Bag story when I heard it because I remember realising how close both races got to each other on the Sunday and entertained the idea of maybe watching both races on that weekend in person.
The more comments from Wiggins and UKAD, the more they support my conspiracy lol.
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22 Feb 2018 19:29

In relation to the whistleblower WP, i'm not sure he would have needed to know much. Lets suppose Fluamicil for Wiggins really was in the package, along with other things, but he didn't know that, he only knew there were needles, or Triamcinolone or simply other things against the rules. He then sees Fancy Bears years later, remembers Wiggins being treated on the bus as suspicious and being said to have 'been sorted' as Sutton described it, no doubt it would have looked suspicious and sounded suspicious too. We assume the Bus is locked during any legitimate treatment by Freeman and definitely would be if it was illegal of course, so the same from the outside looking in being told you can't enter, Wiggins is in there being sorted.
Wiggins Fancy Bears leak perhaps, gave the whistleblower the justification he needed to whistleblow and for his story to be worth Daily Mail following through on. Remember the whistleblowers and newspapers claim was not of doping with a specific substance, method or anything incriminating in itself, simply termed 'wrongdoing' happened on the bus. He doesn't know what it was though, or perhaps can't prove what it was obviously, but it's the same suspicion if you believe it was wrong and later thinks he knows what it was because of Fancy Bears hack as it is for something entirely legitimate too.
All along, that package also contains something for Froome failing in Suisse. Remember it was Sutton, Cope & Freeman driving back to the airport iirc (the same day Cope had just arrived?). That drive back to Geneva airport on evening of 12th June takes you within 2 hours of Crans-Montana where Froome is. That would be a 1 hour drive to meet each other where Freeman, Cope & Sutton all are together.
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Re:

22 Feb 2018 19:57

Dazed and Confused wrote:Looking forward to sir wiggo stepping up......or not.


Agreed, Wiggo will not be stepping up. Avoidence is the name of the game for him.
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22 Feb 2018 20:15

I don't think he's avoiding. Here's why.
Cope manages Team Wiggins, they are both very close still despite everything that's happened. Lets just assume, Wiggins knows nothing illegal happened to himself on the bus and Cope probably knows what was really in the package and for who. If it was legal substances/medication he might not know of course, but if illegal, we all assume he should know. He would have to know perhaps, he's taking it into a bike race for heavens sake to a team who's just won the race and then flying back home again the same day.
Then look at if from Cope's & Sky's perspective. Cope can't incriminate anyone without incriminating himself amnd Sky would know thaty. Managing cycling teams is Copes only livelihood, his only skill in life. He's never going to jeopardise that, but Cope knowing what was in the package and perhaps who it was actually for and Wiggins knowing it wasn't for him allows them to play a very long game with UKADs investigation. You could even suggest UKAD might have closed the case based on what Wiggins & Cope have said that isn't yet out in the air yet. If UKAD are still investigating as they appear to claim, the will not jeopardise that in any way that's for sure!
Without UKADS statement about refusing Freedom of Information, I would agree Wiggins & Cope are simply staying silent, but with that UKAD statement, perhaps it explains why they are saying nothing, instead of why they are not saying anything. Wiggins is playing the very long game still. If it's related to Froome all along, his end game message is still the same for him since since day one. 'When I get to say something'.
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Re:

22 Feb 2018 20:53

samhocking wrote:I don't think he's avoiding. Here's why.
Cope manages Team Wiggins, they are both very close still despite everything that's happened. Lets just assume, Wiggins knows nothing illegal happened to himself on the bus and Cope probably knows what was really in the package and for who. If it was legal substances/medication he might not know of course, but if illegal, we all assume he should know. He would have to know perhaps, he's taking it into a bike race for heavens sake to a team who's just won the race and then flying back home again the same day.
Then look at if from Cope's & Sky's perspective. Cope can't incriminate anyone without incriminating himself amnd Sky would know thaty. Managing cycling teams is Copes only livelihood, his only skill in life. He's never going to jeopardise that, but Cope knowing what was in the package and perhaps who it was actually for and Wiggins knowing it wasn't for him allows them to play a very long game with UKADs investigation. You could even suggest UKAD might have closed the case based on what Wiggins & Cope have said that isn't yet out in the air yet. If UKAD are still investigating as they appear to claim, the will not jeopardise that in any way that's for sure!
Without UKADS statement about refusing Freedom of Information, I would agree Wiggins & Cope are simply staying silent, but with that UKAD statement, perhaps it explains why they are saying nothing, instead of why they are not saying anything. Wiggins is playing the very long game still. If it's related to Froome all along, his end game message is still the same for him since since day one. 'When I get to say something'.


i'm liking it......
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Re: Re:

22 Feb 2018 21:02

gillan1969 wrote:
samhocking wrote:I don't think he's avoiding. Here's why.
Cope manages Team Wiggins, they are both very close still despite everything that's happened. Lets just assume, Wiggins knows nothing illegal happened to himself on the bus and Cope probably knows what was really in the package and for who. If it was legal substances/medication he might not know of course, but if illegal, we all assume he should know. He would have to know perhaps, he's taking it into a bike race for heavens sake to a team who's just won the race and then flying back home again the same day.
Then look at if from Cope's & Sky's perspective. Cope can't incriminate anyone without incriminating himself amnd Sky would know thaty. Managing cycling teams is Copes only livelihood, his only skill in life. He's never going to jeopardise that, but Cope knowing what was in the package and perhaps who it was actually for and Wiggins knowing it wasn't for him allows them to play a very long game with UKADs investigation. You could even suggest UKAD might have closed the case based on what Wiggins & Cope have said that isn't yet out in the air yet. If UKAD are still investigating as they appear to claim, the will not jeopardise that in any way that's for sure!
Without UKADS statement about refusing Freedom of Information, I would agree Wiggins & Cope are simply staying silent, but with that UKAD statement, perhaps it explains why they are saying nothing, instead of why they are not saying anything. Wiggins is playing the very long game still. If it's related to Froome all along, his end game message is still the same for him since since day one. 'When I get to say something'.


i'm liking it......


I'd be surprised if this was the case, if it was surely Sky would have kept Wiggins on side rather than peeing him off and risking him blabbing given his personality and also why would they medicate Froome if he was leaving at the end of the season ? Then again I suppose stranger things have happened although I think it's just Wiggins wanting to have a dig at Froome given their dislike of each other. If it is the case, Wiggins is playing a dangerous game as presumably there is more stuff to come out about him, maybe that's why Sky thought he would keep stumm.
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Re: Re:

22 Feb 2018 21:46

bigcog wrote:
gillan1969 wrote:
samhocking wrote:I don't think he's avoiding. Here's why.
Cope manages Team Wiggins, they are both very close still despite everything that's happened. Lets just assume, Wiggins knows nothing illegal happened to himself on the bus and Cope probably knows what was really in the package and for who. If it was legal substances/medication he might not know of course, but if illegal, we all assume he should know. He would have to know perhaps, he's taking it into a bike race for heavens sake to a team who's just won the race and then flying back home again the same day.
Then look at if from Cope's & Sky's perspective. Cope can't incriminate anyone without incriminating himself amnd Sky would know thaty. Managing cycling teams is Copes only livelihood, his only skill in life. He's never going to jeopardise that, but Cope knowing what was in the package and perhaps who it was actually for and Wiggins knowing it wasn't for him allows them to play a very long game with UKADs investigation. You could even suggest UKAD might have closed the case based on what Wiggins & Cope have said that isn't yet out in the air yet. If UKAD are still investigating as they appear to claim, the will not jeopardise that in any way that's for sure!
Without UKADS statement about refusing Freedom of Information, I would agree Wiggins & Cope are simply staying silent, but with that UKAD statement, perhaps it explains why they are saying nothing, instead of why they are not saying anything. Wiggins is playing the very long game still. If it's related to Froome all along, his end game message is still the same for him since since day one. 'When I get to say something'.


i'm liking it......


I'd be surprised if this was the case, if it was surely Sky would have kept Wiggins on side rather than peeing him off and risking him blabbing given his personality and also why would they medicate Froome if he was leaving at the end of the season ? Then again I suppose stranger things have happened although I think it's just Wiggins wanting to have a dig at Froome given their dislike of each other. If it is the case, Wiggins is playing a dangerous game as presumably there is more stuff to come out about him, maybe that's why Sky thought he would keep stumm.


i'm not so sure...there's only one thing stranger than Wiggin's rise to GC stardom (well, other than Froome's rise to GC stardom) and that is his fall. How many TdF riders have not defended and then dropped away from GTs altogether whilst still riding as a pro....

He either bottled it or cashed out once the gamble paid off....

I think he basically couldn't hack the life...he could probably coast for 8 months a year and still pick up olympic golds...winning TdF was a different matter and he couldn't deal with it...I'm not sure SKY would have appreciated that in the few years before he left...and I'm sure the feeling became mutual..

regarding other stuff coming out...remember, we all have nukes because of MAD
gillan1969
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22 Feb 2018 22:04

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/bradley-wiggins-my-team-is-detached-from-the-negativity-in-cycling/
Don't go to Sky in the future, go somewhere else because they'll ruin you.


:lol:
"Are you going to believe me or what you see with your own eyes?"

“It doesn’t matter what I do. People need to hear what I have to say. There’s no one else who can say what I can say. It doesn’t matter what I live.”
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Re:

22 Feb 2018 22:16

samhocking wrote:In relation to the whistleblower WP, i'm not sure he would have needed to know much. Lets suppose Fluamicil for Wiggins really was in the package, along with other things, but he didn't know that, he only knew there were needles, or Triamcinolone or simply other things against the rules. He then sees Fancy Bears years later, remembers Wiggins being treated on the bus as suspicious and being said to have 'been sorted' as Sutton described it, no doubt it would have looked suspicious and sounded suspicious too. We assume the Bus is locked during any legitimate treatment by Freeman and definitely would be if it was illegal of course, so the same from the outside looking in being told you can't enter, Wiggins is in there being sorted.
Wiggins Fancy Bears leak perhaps, gave the whistleblower the justification he needed to whistleblow and for his story to be worth Daily Mail following through on. Remember the whistleblowers and newspapers claim was not of doping with a specific substance, method or anything incriminating in itself, simply termed 'wrongdoing' happened on the bus. He doesn't know what it was though, or perhaps can't prove what it was obviously, but it's the same suspicion if you believe it was wrong and later thinks he knows what it was because of Fancy Bears hack as it is for something entirely legitimate too.
All along, that package also contains something for Froome failing in Suisse. Remember it was Sutton, Cope & Freeman driving back to the airport iirc (the same day Cope had just arrived?). That drive back to Geneva airport on evening of 12th June takes you within 2 hours of Crans-Montana where Froome is. That would be a 1 hour drive to meet each other where Freeman, Cope & Sutton all are together.


On the bolded bit - incorrect

Inspector Sapstead of the Keystone UKAD Cops confirmed to the DCMS stooges that the whistleblower specifically said it was triamcinolene (Kenalog) in the jiffy bag ("Sapstead also discussed the allegation that the package contained the powerful drug triamcinolone" - http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/ukad-launch-damning-attack-on-team-sky-and-british-cycling-over-medical-practices/)

And PI Lawton of the Mail was told the same but with no corroboration couldn't be specific when he broke the story. But Lawton knows who the whistleblower is so he took the story very seriously. After all the same source primed him with the Armitstead story

In the meantime, remember to take that tinfoil hat off before you go to bed ;)
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Re:

23 Feb 2018 02:29

On the BBC news tonight they had Tracey Emin. The BBC Arts reporters are up there fighting for the top podium spot with the sports reporters for nonsensical pap production, dressed up as expert opinion (Roan excluded). Emin does her version of Wiggo wearing Lance's WC jersey, in the interview with an in-your-face gold watch on as she spouts on again about her unmade bed being a work of art. [I loved it when the guys broke into the display and tidied it all up !]

Sam, Bradley Wiggins and Catherine Cockram are taking you and all the punters for a ride just like Ms Emin is. The only difference is the medium.


samhocking wrote:............................................Lets just assume, Wiggins knows nothing illegal happened to himself on the bus .................


Let's just assume that Mick McManus and Giant Haystacks did not fix it that Mick would be thrown out of the ring into the lap of the old dear with the red handbag on the front row, in the second round.

There, does that sound believable ? I don't think so either.

samhocking wrote:...and Cope probably knows what was really in the package and for who. If it was legal substances/medication he might not know of course, but if illegal, we all assume he should know. He would have to know perhaps, he's taking it into a bike race for heavens sake to a team who's just won the race and then flying back home again the same day.
Then look at if from Cope's & Sky's perspective. Cope can't incriminate anyone without incriminating himself amnd Sky would know thaty. Managing cycling teams is Copes only livelihood, his only skill in life. He's never going to jeopardise that, but Cope knowing what was in the package and perhaps who it was actually for and Wiggins knowing it wasn't for him .............


You obviously did not watch Cope give evidence.

Did you see Sir David ? Or Howden or Gilbert ?

How about Sutton saying he had never seen any doping products or anyone using PEDs during his cycling career?

samhocking wrote:.................

1. Wiggins said he is suing UKAD
2. When he does get to finally speak he said "What I have to say will shock a few people"
3. He said that Marginal gains was all rubbish, you go ride your bike, put the work in, and you’re either good or you’re not good.
4. That Sky will destroy you
5. Then the last word he had yesterday when asked about the Froome case was "I'm going to have my say on that very soon".

Now backtrack to Cath Wiggins tweet when Froome story broke:

"If I was given to conspiracy theory, I’d allege they’d thrown my boy under the bus on purpose to cover for this slithering reptile."
..........................


These are all throw away lines, played to the audience. No one should be giving them any credibility.

Let me write it again. So we are meant to believe that after a decade as a full time pro and months in the boozer after Beijing, Sir Bradley gets sorted out by Sutton and they come up with a master plan. With Cath's mum's apple pie and keeping off the booze and going to bed early, And Shane, as a very strange personal coach (who has no idea what injections his charge is being prescribed !!!!) Wiggo can beat all the dopers clean, all of them and win the Tour.

Giant Haystacks wins a tight contest in the eighth after being out of the ring three times in the seventh. The crowd go mad to see him beat the evil Mick McManus. And Tracey, your artwork is so wonderful, so evocative. So thoughtful. The placement of the used condom is perfect.

Sam, I genuinely admire your motives. You are right to spot that the accounts offered make little sense but look at Tyler - phantom twin, Floyd - use paypal to help the fairness fund and Lance - I'm sorry for all you out there who can't believe, who can't think big. Everyone of them was lying through their back teeth with virtually every word they spouted, Big George, Eki, the list is endless.

The cast has changed but little else.
Freddythefrog
Member
 
Posts: 693
Joined: 10 Jul 2010 06:50

Re:

23 Feb 2018 06:08

samhocking wrote:I don't think he's avoiding. Here's why.
Cope manages Team Wiggins, they are both very close still despite everything that's happened. Lets just assume, Wiggins knows nothing illegal happened to himself on the bus and Cope probably knows what was really in the package and for who. If it was legal substances/medication he might not know of course, but if illegal, we all assume he should know. He would have to know perhaps, he's taking it into a bike race for heavens sake to a team who's just won the race and then flying back home again the same day.
Then look at if from Cope's & Sky's perspective. Cope can't incriminate anyone without incriminating himself amnd Sky would know thaty. Managing cycling teams is Copes only livelihood, his only skill in life. He's never going to jeopardise that, but Cope knowing what was in the package and perhaps who it was actually for and Wiggins knowing it wasn't for him allows them to play a very long game with UKADs investigation. You could even suggest UKAD might have closed the case based on what Wiggins & Cope have said that isn't yet out in the air yet. If UKAD are still investigating as they appear to claim, the will not jeopardise that in any way that's for sure!
Without UKADS statement about refusing Freedom of Information, I would agree Wiggins & Cope are simply staying silent, but with that UKAD statement, perhaps it explains why they are saying nothing, instead of why they are not saying anything. Wiggins is playing the very long game still. If it's related to Froome all along, his end game message is still the same for him since since day one. 'When I get to say something'.


Ten times better than "The Red Headed League", Sam. :)
Alpe73
Member
 
Posts: 628
Joined: 27 Dec 2012 01:23

Re: Re:

23 Feb 2018 06:24

Freddythefrog wrote:On the BBC news tonight they had Tracey Emin. The BBC Arts reporters are up there fighting for the top podium spot with the sports reporters for nonsensical pap production, dressed up as expert opinion (Roan excluded). Emin does her version of Wiggo wearing Lance's WC jersey, in the interview with an in-your-face gold watch on as she spouts on again about her unmade bed being a work of art. [I loved it when the guys broke into the display and tidied it all up !]

Sam, Bradley Wiggins and Catherine Cockram are taking you and all the punters for a ride just like Ms Emin is. The only difference is the medium.


samhocking wrote:............................................Lets just assume, Wiggins knows nothing illegal happened to himself on the bus .................


Let's just assume that Mick McManus and Giant Haystacks did not fix it that Mick would be thrown out of the ring into the lap of the old dear with the red handbag on the front row, in the second round.

There, does that sound believable ? I don't think so either.

samhocking wrote:...and Cope probably knows what was really in the package and for who. If it was legal substances/medication he might not know of course, but if illegal, we all assume he should know. He would have to know perhaps, he's taking it into a bike race for heavens sake to a team who's just won the race and then flying back home again the same day.
Then look at if from Cope's & Sky's perspective. Cope can't incriminate anyone without incriminating himself amnd Sky would know thaty. Managing cycling teams is Copes only livelihood, his only skill in life. He's never going to jeopardise that, but Cope knowing what was in the package and perhaps who it was actually for and Wiggins knowing it wasn't for him .............


You obviously did not watch Cope give evidence.

Did you see Sir David ? Or Howden or Gilbert ?

How about Sutton saying he had never seen any doping products or anyone using PEDs during his cycling career?

samhocking wrote:.................

1. Wiggins said he is suing UKAD
2. When he does get to finally speak he said "What I have to say will shock a few people"
3. He said that Marginal gains was all rubbish, you go ride your bike, put the work in, and you’re either good or you’re not good.
4. That Sky will destroy you
5. Then the last word he had yesterday when asked about the Froome case was "I'm going to have my say on that very soon".

Now backtrack to Cath Wiggins tweet when Froome story broke:

"If I was given to conspiracy theory, I’d allege they’d thrown my boy under the bus on purpose to cover for this slithering reptile."
..........................


These are all throw away lines, played to the audience. No one should be giving them any credibility.

Let me write it again. So we are meant to believe that after a decade as a full time pro and months in the boozer after Beijing, Sir Bradley gets sorted out by Sutton and they come up with a master plan. With Cath's mum's apple pie and keeping off the booze and going to bed early, And Shane, as a very strange personal coach (who has no idea what injections his charge is being prescribed !!!!) Wiggo can beat all the dopers clean, all of them and win the Tour.

Giant Haystacks wins a tight contest in the eighth after being out of the ring three times in the seventh. The crowd go mad to see him beat the evil Mick McManus. And Tracey, your artwork is so wonderful, so evocative. So thoughtful. The placement of the used condom is perfect.

Sam, I genuinely admire your motives. You are right to spot that the accounts offered make little sense but look at Tyler - phantom twin, Floyd - use paypal to help the fairness fund and Lance - I'm sorry for all you out there who can't believe, who can't think big. Everyone of them was lying through their back teeth with virtually every word they spouted, Big George, Eki, the list is endless.

The cast has changed but little else.


Crystalline. Not just the structure ... but the clarity ... the clarity, man. (sniff)

"Would you believe .... they put a man on the moon?" ;)
Alpe73
Member
 
Posts: 628
Joined: 27 Dec 2012 01:23

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