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Wiggins, Clinic respect?

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Re:

10 Jul 2018 08:31

samhocking wrote:He wasn't wrong. Cycling's still standing on Lance's shoulders in many ways.


I can see where you are coming from Sam which just shows the sad mess that cycling is still in. The more things change the more they stay the same.
ontheroad
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Re: Re:

10 Jul 2018 08:41

TourOfSardinia wrote:
samhocking wrote:He wasn't wrong. Cycling's still standing on Lance's shoulders in many ways.

which ways is that Sam.
Cheating?
Doping?
Bribing?

yeah nice shoulders for giants like CF to stand on
;)


If you didn't witness the transition in the cycling industry, booming globally, entirely down to Armstrong in 90's and 00's, you're nutts. Zipp, Trek/Bontrager e.g. pretty much exist because of Armstrong. Tour de France switched from a parochial novelty in World sport, to an equal footing because of Armstrong. The fact he is still the only rider to fully transcend the sport globally, proves his doping was a sideshow. If Armstrong turned up to race Le Tour today, it would be the biggest story in World Sport, if he even turned up to spectate it would be a bigger discussion globally than that of the winner 1000 fold. As Bobet says, "there's no difference between Anqueteil & Armstrong" in terms of doping and cheating and skulduggery they were the same.
samhocking
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10 Jul 2018 08:56

Linking an article from eight years ago is an obsession.
yaco
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10 Jul 2018 09:17

thehog wrote:
samhocking wrote:Should be good. He's got one pretty iconic bike collection now and an incredible memory on the equipment and riders side. Should be worth missing a DCMS for. What would he have said anyway - Fluimicil and gone back to Lancs on the next train anyway lol!


Wiggins can talk Lance again :cool:


http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2010/jul/25/tour-de-france-2010-lance-armstrong

"I love him," Wiggins said. "I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense. Even his strongest critics have benefitted from him. I don't think this sport will ever realise what he's brought it or how big he's made it.:eek:

many riders love what lance did for cycling....greater wages...better endorsement opportunities..

bigger team buses....more docs for better preparation..............

Mark L
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Re: Re:

10 Jul 2018 11:35

samhocking wrote:
TourOfSardinia wrote:
samhocking wrote:He wasn't wrong. Cycling's still standing on Lance's shoulders in many ways.

which ways is that Sam.
Cheating?
Doping?
Bribing?

yeah nice shoulders for giants like CF to stand on
;)


If you didn't witness the transition in the cycling industry, booming globally, entirely down to Armstrong in 90's and 00's, you're nutts. Zipp, Trek/Bontrager e.g. pretty much exist because of Armstrong. Tour de France switched from a parochial novelty in World sport, to an equal footing because of Armstrong. The fact he is still the only rider to fully transcend the sport globally, proves his doping was a sideshow. If Armstrong turned up to race Le Tour today, it would be the biggest story in World Sport, if he even turned up to spectate it would be a bigger discussion globally than that of the winner 1000 fold. As Bobet says, "there's no difference between Anqueteil & Armstrong" in terms of doping and cheating and skulduggery they were the same.


I agree with this to a large extent. Similar to what Tiger Woods done for golf, Armstrong was mainstream and transcended the sport of cycling. He was an a**hole but you can't deny that he had charisma and an aura around him. The rest of the peloton benefitted financially and knew exactly what was going on. Wiggins was only but one of these and at the crossroads in his road racing career he decided he would have to play the game in order to compete.
Last edited by ontheroad on 10 Jul 2018 11:35, edited 1 time in total.
ontheroad
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Re:

10 Jul 2018 11:35

yaco wrote:Linking an article from eight years ago is an obsession.


Wiggins writing a book about cyclist more than eight years ago is what? :cool:
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Re: Re:

10 Jul 2018 11:41

samhocking wrote:
TourOfSardinia wrote:
samhocking wrote:He wasn't wrong. Cycling's still standing on Lance's shoulders in many ways.

which ways is that Sam.
Cheating?
Doping?
Bribing?

yeah nice shoulders for giants like CF to stand on
;)


If you didn't witness the transition in the cycling industry, booming globally, entirely down to Armstrong in 90's and 00's, you're nutts. Zipp, Trek/Bontrager e.g. pretty much exist because of Armstrong. Tour de France switched from a parochial novelty in World sport, to an equal footing because of Armstrong. The fact he is still the only rider to fully transcend the sport globally, proves his doping was a sideshow. If Armstrong turned up to race Le Tour today, it would be the biggest story in World Sport, if he even turned up to spectate it would be a bigger discussion globally than that of the winner 1000 fold. As Bobet says, "there's no difference between Anqueteil & Armstrong" in terms of doping and cheating and skulduggery they were the same.
Dumbest thing I've yet seen from Sam.

It's funny how, like a couple of others round here, he just makes up facts and history and blusters past any questions about his lies.
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10 Jul 2018 12:19

The Lance Effect was huge for cycling industry. US Road bike Industry pretty much owes all of its growth duing 2000's to Armstrong. Trek, Specialized, Zipp they all said so at the time. Plenty of stats out there fmk. I was working in bike industry 88 to 2006 and it was palpable when Armstrong came along. He did for the Bicycle Industry what Pantani did for Mercatone Uno.
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Re:

10 Jul 2018 12:44

samhocking wrote:The Lance Effect was huge for cycling industry. US Road bike Industry pretty much owes all of its growth duing 2000's to Armstrong. Trek, Specialized, Zipp they all said so at the time. Plenty of stats out there fmk. I was working in bike industry 88 to 2006 and it was palpable when Armstrong came along. He did for the Bicycle Industry what Pantani did for Mercatone Uno.


Armstrong mostly used Mavic wheels then Bontrager. Zipp, no.
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10 Jul 2018 12:49

I'm talking about the bike industry. Those are simply the 3 main road manufactures in US who boomed due to Lance Effect. They all attribute their growth to that effect.
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Re:

10 Jul 2018 12:54

samhocking wrote:I'm talking about the bike industry. Those are simply the 3 main road manufactures in US who boomed due to Lance Effect. They all attribute their growth to that effect.


Then you would be more likely to have said Bontrager. Zipp was around in Lemonds final years and big on the triathlete scene well before “the Lance effect”.
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Re:

10 Jul 2018 14:52

samhocking wrote:I'm talking about the bike industry. Those are simply the 3 main road manufactures in US who boomed due to Lance Effect. They all attribute their growth to that effect.


I would hazard a guess that if not Armstrong then maybe another USA rider would have won a TdF, Vaughters, Jullich, Hamilton et al and then Landis. So the bike industry in USA was going to grow based on the sport wanting to grow in that market place.

ASO and the French Tourist industry were definitely looking abroad. Not hard to see that the TdF is the biggest advert every year and recieves huge backing from the French government.

Maybe this is why they are not othered to have a French winner the last 30 years. Not good for tourism and the money that brings in.

I wonder how what the numbers are from the UK since Sky were set up.....
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Re: Re:

10 Jul 2018 14:55

Benotti69 wrote:
samhocking wrote:I'm talking about the bike industry. Those are simply the 3 main road manufactures in US who boomed due to Lance Effect. They all attribute their growth to that effect.


I would hazard a guess that if not Armstrong then maybe another USA rider would have won a TdF, Vaughters, Jullich, Hamilton et al and then Landis. So the bike industry in USA was going to grow based on the sport wanting to grow in that market place.

ASO and the French Tourist industry were definitely looking abroad. Not hard to see that the TdF is the biggest advert every year and recieves huge backing from the French government.

Maybe this is why they are not othered to have a French winner the last 30 years. Not good for tourism and the money that brings in.

I wonder how what the numbers are from the UK since Sky were set up.....



Truth be told it was the internet that helped US cycling grow. From 1995 onwards and towards the Lance years access to races and equipment was freely available online for the first time. It was the beginning of globalisation for many industries not just cycling.
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10 Jul 2018 15:58

I'll believe what the industry says thanks. It helped, but like UK Cycle Industry booming after Wiggins-effect, it had nothing to do with the internet, it's to do with athletes transcending the sport, to the point man on the street can identify with the sport and takes it up themselves.
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Re:

10 Jul 2018 16:06

samhocking wrote:I'll believe what the industry says thanks. It helped, but like UK Cycle Industry booming after Wiggins-effect, it had nothing to do with the internet, it's to do with athletes transcending the sport, to the point man on the street can identify with the sport and takes it up themselves.


That’s because the internet had been around for a long time in 2012, with Lance it was just taking off along with the globalization of the world economy.

Do you think about what you write? Or voice input? :cool:
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10 Jul 2018 16:46

The Internet doesn't explain a sportsman transcending the sport, the internet doesn't explain the boom in UK or US It enables sales with cheaper overheads, it didn't generate sales or desire to get on a bike, write about or appear on front cover of time magazine. Sports men and women have to do that and to change the status quo, they need to be bigger than the sport was before, because cycling is a minority sport the man on the street cannot identify with otherwise.
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Re: Re:

10 Jul 2018 16:53

Benotti69 wrote:
samhocking wrote:I'm talking about the bike industry. Those are simply the 3 main road manufactures in US who boomed due to Lance Effect. They all attribute their growth to that effect.


I would hazard a guess that if not Armstrong then maybe another USA rider would have won a TdF, Vaughters, Jullich, Hamilton et al and then Landis. So the bike industry in USA was going to grow based on the sport wanting to grow in that market place.

ASO and the French Tourist industry were definitely looking abroad. Not hard to see that the TdF is the biggest advert every year and recieves huge backing from the French government.

Maybe this is why they are not othered to have a French winner the last 30 years. Not good for tourism and the money that brings in.

I wonder how what the numbers are from the UK since Sky were set up.....


It wasn't that LA won a TdF, it was that he won SEVEN in a row as a cancer survivor on a team branded US Postal Service. LeMond won 3, and the sport didn't grow in the US. The global attention (and money) that cycling received because of that was huge.

You can see the same effect in Britain on a slightly smaller scale with Sky (aided by the British track team).

Cycling is dining out on the backs of Armstrong and Chris Froome. That's why the omerta remains strong. Everyone's eating at the same trough.
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Re:

10 Jul 2018 16:53

samhocking wrote:The Internet doesn't explain a sportsman transcending the sport, the internet doesn't explain the boom in UK or US It enables sales with cheaper overheads, it didn't generate sales or desire to get on a bike, write about or appear on front cover of time magazine. Sports men and women have to do that and to change the status quo, they need to be bigger than the sport was before, because cycling is a minority sport the man on the street cannot identify with otherwise.

If that was so why aren't the bigger-than-that-sport champs there in the Tour de Yorkshire
selling the dream to the man on the street ready to by their kit?
Wiggins appeared once and was a Joke. Froome???
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Re: Re:

10 Jul 2018 17:02

TourOfSardinia wrote:
samhocking wrote:The Internet doesn't explain a sportsman transcending the sport, the internet doesn't explain the boom in UK or US It enables sales with cheaper overheads, it didn't generate sales or desire to get on a bike, write about or appear on front cover of time magazine. Sports men and women have to do that and to change the status quo, they need to be bigger than the sport was before, because cycling is a minority sport the man on the street cannot identify with otherwise.

If that was so why aren't the bigger-than-that-sport champs there in the Tour de Yorkshire
selling the dream to the man on the street ready to by their kit?
Wiggins appeared once and was a Joke. Froome???


Tour de Yorkshire lol? I don't think you qiote grasp what transcending something is perhaps. Transcending is 'surpassing' something. e.g. Armstrong surpassing 5 Tour wins. Either way, it doesn't happen in cycling via the TdeY lol! This is why the French all of a sudden are doing all they can to stop Froome winning his 5th. He's on the verge of transcending their French hero's, it's only natural.
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Re:

10 Jul 2018 17:06

samhocking wrote:The Internet doesn't explain a sportsman transcending the sport, the internet doesn't explain the boom in UK or US It enables sales with cheaper overheads, it didn't generate sales or desire to get on a bike, write about or appear on front cover of time magazine. Sports men and women have to do that and to change the status quo, they need to be bigger than the sport was before, because cycling is a minority sport the man on the street cannot identify with otherwise.


You’re right Sam, the Internet wasn’t very big. Nor as the expansion of the global economy due to the deregulation of several industries including the banking industry freeing up untold amounts of capital for businesses to loan and increase their size.

You may have missed all this when working in your local bike shop :cool:
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