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Dr Steve Peters - Is he really just a confidence trickster?

The Clinic is the only place on Cyclingnews where you can discuss doping-related issues. Ask questions, discuss positives or improvements to procedures.

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18 Mar 2013 09:57

Peters also helped Ronnie O'Sullivan to get his head together to win the World Championship last year. Is this also a facade to cover to hide the EPO injections and blood transfusions that were the real reasons for his success?

I think it is OK to be sceptical about Sky's success due to cycling's history but some of the conspiracy theories spouted on this forum border on obsession and paranoia that could benefit from Peters professional help.
warrenfuk
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18 Mar 2013 11:39

warrenfuk wrote:Peters also helped Ronnie O'Sullivan to get his head together to win the World Championship last year. Is this also a facade to cover to hide the EPO injections and blood transfusions that were the real reasons for his success?

I think it is OK to be sceptical about Sky's success due to cycling's history but some of the conspiracy theories spouted on this forum border on obsession and paranoia that could benefit from Peters professional help.


In some cases, the border post is long since in the rear view mirror.

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18 Mar 2013 14:00

warrenfuk wrote:Peters also helped Ronnie O'Sullivan to get his head together to win the World Championship last year. Is this also a facade to cover to hide the EPO injections and blood transfusions that were the real reasons for his success?

I think it is OK to be sceptical about Sky's success due to cycling's history but some of the conspiracy theories spouted on this forum border on obsession and paranoia that could benefit from Peters professional help.


What conspiracy? Example?

It is not that I don't believe in psychiatry and it's value for those who need it.

I just don't like that Peters is selling it to the public on the back of elite athlete conscripts. I feels it all a little too trite.

Ronny O'sullivan can be a bit of a hot head ....so that figures, and he has always been a talented snooker player, pre Peters involvement. Besides you are drowning the internet with name dropping. One other person, besides the usual suspects.
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18 Mar 2013 19:55

More on the Inner Chimp . . .from the zookeeper.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2013/mar/18/dave-brailsford-cyclists-doping-spread-crack-cocaine

Looks like Sir Dave is angling for a pay rise.
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18 Mar 2013 20:22

horsinabout wrote:What conspiracy? Example?

It is not that I don't believe in psychiatry and it's value for those who need it.

I just don't like that Peters is selling it to the public on the back of elite athlete conscripts. I feels it all a little too trite.

Ronny O'sullivan can be a bit of a hot head ....so that figures, and he has always been a talented snooker player, pre Peters involvement. Besides you are drowning the internet with name dropping. One other person, besides the usual suspects.


If you were a successful professional in say sales, marketing, head hunting or engineering and had worked with some prestigious clients you would be and should be proud of that. So why should Steve Peters not publicise the fact of his achievements?

I dont see why is that trite? Good marketing and business savvy, for sure. Is that now considered to be performance enhancing or is the man now guilty by association?
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18 Mar 2013 20:23

zebedee wrote:More on the Inner Chimp . . .from the zookeeper.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2013/mar/18/dave-brailsford-cyclists-doping-spread-crack-cocaine

Looks like Sir Dave is angling for a pay rise.


I was accused by vics of doing a bating post. The truth is it because the chimp is being pushed towards the big money sports and possible doping. It's depressing (no pun intended), DB telling the media about his marginal gains chimp.
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18 Mar 2013 20:58

What's depressing is the perception of others that the entire world of sport is caught up in nefarious doping practices.

It isn't and the near paranoia that exists around the topic isn't helpful either.

Brailsford's thesis is purely a simple one based on the use of sports psychology to help England's penaltytakers where it is known to the entire world we have a real problem. What earthly reason that has to do with doping, I don't know.
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18 Mar 2013 21:19

B_Ugli wrote:If you were a successful professional in say sales, marketing, head hunting or engineering and had worked with some prestigious clients you would be and should be proud of that. So why should Steve Peters not publicise the fact of his achievements?

I dont see why is that trite? Good marketing and business savvy, for sure. Is that now considered to be performance enhancing or is the man now guilty by association?


You have a good point regard promoting your professional success, if you are an engineer etc. However, Peters is a psychiatrist and in the context of sport is applying a methodology to sports psychology and enhanced performance. He has a handful of successful endorsements, that are subjective and it's value cannot be proven either way. So therefore is faith based. You have to take it on face value.

I am questioning the chimp methods for it's true value in enhancing sport in any real meaningfull way. In Peter's favour it appears that atheletes do have a choice to use him or not, which is a good thing.

Back to my original question - are Peters methods a confidence trick - as they may be out moded methods used in psychiatry, this is a possibility. This being the case, I would describe the heavy marketing of the value of his methods trite.
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18 Mar 2013 21:26

All the same, there seem to be some pretty high profile athletes (Olympic Champions) who are on record as valuing his input towards their success.

What is the issue? Sport is always about the will. Sports psychologist/ psychiatrist.... don't get hung up on the terminology.
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18 Mar 2013 21:32

zebedee wrote:What's depressing is the perception of others that the entire world of sport is caught up in nefarious doping practices.

It isn't and the near paranoia that exists around the topic isn't helpful either.

Brailsford's thesis is purely a simple one based on the use of sports psychology to help England's penaltytakers where it is known to the entire world we have a real problem. What earthly reason that has to do with doping, I don't know.


I don't recall saying that sport is caught up in nefarious doping practices?
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18 Mar 2013 22:03

horsinabout wrote:I don't recall saying that sport is caught up in nefarious doping practices?

Have I ever said you did?

Paranoid feelings, perhaps?
zebedee
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19 Mar 2013 02:10

horsinabout wrote:You have a good point regard promoting your professional success, if you are an engineer etc. However, Peters is a psychiatrist and in the context of sport is applying a methodology to sports psychology and enhanced performance. He has a handful of successful endorsements, that are subjective and it's value cannot be proven either way. So therefore is faith based. You have to take it on face value.
...


That's not correct - there's no reason why his approach is untestable. There are numerous studies on psychological intervention effects on athletic performance, including pre-event motivational strategies, stress response, etc. Not only can performance be a direct variable, but it is also possible to measure the intervention effect in terms of free hormonal state (testosterone and cortisol, for example). Both can vary rapidly in response to pre-event preparations and have peer-reviewed literatures showing these interventions are effective.

I've examined these issues in a number of professional cyclists and am struck by the degree of pre-event anxiety, stress, and self-doubt even national champions have. Although Peters underlying model is wrong (e.g., self-doubt is a paradigmatically pre-frontal process) the strategies he utilizes could nonetheless be effective and likely reduce stress response (which could be measured via cortisol).
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19 Mar 2013 09:47

mastersracer wrote:That's not correct - there's no reason why his approach is untestable. There are numerous studies on psychological intervention effects on athletic performance, including pre-event motivational strategies, stress response, etc. Not only can performance be a direct variable, but it is also possible to measure the intervention effect in terms of free hormonal state (testosterone and cortisol, for example). Both can vary rapidly in response to pre-event preparations and have peer-reviewed literatures showing these interventions are effective.

I've examined these issues in a number of professional cyclists and am struck by the degree of pre-event anxiety, stress, and self-doubt even national champions have. Although Peters underlying model is wrong (e.g., self-doubt is a paradigmatically pre-frontal process) the strategies he utilizes could nonetheless be effective and likely reduce stress response (which could be measured via cortisol).


I agree that psychological process can be tested, physiologically, I'm not denied this point. However, with interpreting of any data there is always going to be subjectivety in psychology, people are individuals.

In the case of Peters he is expecting us to take his methods and use of those methods with a particular performer - on face value. If Peters produces peer reviewed papers, then I will have more evidence and be less sceptical. Likewise with Brailsfords marginal gains, I have requested more scientific evidence so I am less sceptical of their outstanding performance domination in recent years.
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19 Mar 2013 10:03

mastersracer wrote:I've examined these issues in a number of professional cyclists and am struck by the degree of pre-event anxiety, stress, and self-doubt even national champions have.


First-hand? Or reading about it somewhere?
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19 Mar 2013 12:56

horsinabout wrote:I have requested more scientific evidence so I am less sceptical of their outstanding performance domination in recent years.


If you were a highly successful business would you reveal to your competitors the secret of your success?
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19 Mar 2013 13:00

Dear Wiggo wrote:First-hand? Or reading about it somewhere?


One handed perhaps?
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19 Mar 2013 13:04

Cavendash wrote:My football team Liverpool FC have been using him...

Basically its up to the players and staff if they want to speak to him... no-one has to speak to him if they dont want to.

2 players last season bought in for big fees during the previous summer - Stuart Downing (£20mill) and Jordan Henderson(£16mill) both had utterly torrid first seasons at the club, they were both hopeless, Downing is an experienced pro whilst Henderson was/is just a youngster.

Both are clearly confidence players... i have no idea why any club is interested in this type of player unless they are hugely talented which Downing isn't, hes never shown the ability to be a top tier player the crazy money paid for him suggests he is, Henderson is young and does at least have the potential to be one i guess.

Anyway both have had much better seasons this season, you could say they couldn't of gotton any worse, but still they have been so much better especially Henderson, they were both rightfully out of favour at the start of this season but now are regulars in the first team, guaranteed if any of the Liverpool players have spoken to Peters these 2 would of been top of the list.

I agree with the OP, he is a confidence trickster in a way, a better way of putting it is a confidence manipulator from what i can see, certainly not a bad thing, if he can get certain Liverpool players playing better then im happy.


I don,t suppose Suarez needed his services.
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19 Mar 2013 13:09

simo1733 wrote:I don,t suppose Suarez needed his services.

Rooney is now more chimp then human.
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19 Mar 2013 13:13

Dear Wiggo wrote:First-hand? Or reading about it somewhere?


first hand, and in preparation stages of a longitudinal study on emotional regulation (cognitive reappraisal) and cognitive behavioral interventions in elite athletes.
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19 Mar 2013 13:37

mastersracer wrote:first hand, and in preparation stages of a longitudinal study on emotional regulation (cognitive reappraisal) and cognitive behavioral interventions in elite athletes.
Testosterone is not good for ones psyche.

Anti - depressants are well known in the peloton.
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