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GW501516 for performance enhancement.

The Clinic is the only place on Cyclingnews where you can discuss doping-related issues. Ask questions, discuss positives or improvements to procedures.

Moderators: Irondan, Eshnar, Red Rick, Valv.Piti, Pricey_sky, Tonton, King Boonen

02 Jun 2013 21:53

doctorilla wrote:hello everybody, nice to meet you
I've just read all this topic, and if you dare to try this stuff (GW1516) - we can do some supply from Europe via AirMail. Aicar is also here.
Anyway, you can pm me.


Thank You Brother, check your PM's.
Cyivel
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02 Jun 2013 22:53

doctorilla wrote:hello everybody, nice to meet you
I've just read all this topic, and if you dare to try this stuff (GW1516) - we can do some supply from Europe via AirMail. Aicar is also here.
Anyway, you can pm me.


Can you send by USPS?
User avatar thehog
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02 Jun 2013 23:50

doctorilla wrote:hello everybody, nice to meet you
I've just read all this topic, and if you dare to try this stuff (GW1516) - we can do some supply from Europe via AirMail. Aicar is also here.
Anyway, you can pm me.


How much would it cost to get a list of your clients, their email addresses, names and delivery addresses?
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User avatar Dear Wiggo
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03 Jun 2013 05:07

blackcat wrote:Actually, Ferrari's advice to Armstrong was to have a big off-season and come muscled.


That advice was before his cancer diagnosis, when he was a dedicated Classics and short stage race rider. Armstrong was physically at his biggest during the 1996 season, when it was obvious he was marinating in testosterone and HgH.

One can assume that when he came back in 1998 and told Ferrari he wanted to go for the Tour after his fourth placing at the Vuelta, Ferrari's doping regimen for Lance evolved.
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03 Jun 2013 05:54

yeah. but still big for a GT rider tho. definitely not the tight end he was however.
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11 Sep 2014 20:31

131313 wrote:It's strange to me, but then again bike riders and their handlers aren't particularly impressive people. Trust me on this one. There are some thoughtful folks, and then there are some real idiots. You should never be surprised by stupid, particularly when it comes to folks involved in bike racing.

As far as Telmisartan not being banned (yet), that's a WADA thing, not a UCI or a McQuaid thing. I don't know why they've been dragging their feet on it, but they've completely ignored the well-established secondary effects of it. I understand why ARB's aren't specifically banned, but the metabolic modulatory effects are equal to or exceed that of drugs which are banned (PPAR agonists like GW1516). The side effects are FAR less and it's not banned. So any semi-thougtful folks will be using this stuff instead.


So I may be late in on this game just simple because I was searching the web monster about this drug Telmisartan. I'm a pretty avid cyclist and racer, and I also have high blood pressure hereditary... despite riding 700 miles a month. Anyway... I just wanted to post in here because I have first hand experience with this drug in concert with cycling.

I cant speak for everyone that has ever taken it, but after a week of taking this medicine (a fairly low dose) I saw my watts drop significantly while my heart rate would skyrocket.

A typical sustained 320 watt effort (non medicated) would take me from Zone 2 HR to Zone 5 over the course of 10-15 minutes. After returning to an endurance pace (watts) for 1-2 minutes my HR would fall back to Zone 2 as expected, and I could then repeat the effort with similar results.

While on Telmisartan a 320 watt effort would jack my heart rate to near max over the course of about 1 minute. Returning to endurance pace (watts) my heart rate would never fall below high Zone 3, and any increase in power would bring my heart rate back up to near max again.

Maybe there are people out there that tolerate this medication differently. But I called my doctor and had him take me off this medication right away. Seems like an impossible medication to label performance enhancing... I'd go the other way with that, extreme performance reducing.

I know, I'm super late to this thread... haha. Oh well. Take it or leave it.
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05 Nov 2017 17:37

A long New Yorker story on the search for exercise in a pill, covering GlaxoSmithKline's GW510516 and the University of Southampton's Compound 14 and a lot more besides. Worth the read.
Iron Julius still takes 516, although lately he has noticed a decrease in the drug’s quality. “I’m a volunteer firefighter so stamina at times is very important,” he explained. “If you research, many police and firefighters are on some form of performance-enhancing substance as the jobs are sometimes physically demanding.” Iron Julius told me that around a third of the people he sees at the gym are using 516, without any side effects that he’s heard about. When I asked whether he would recommend it, his response was, “Hell yeah man, try it. It don’t mess with hormones and it increases performance.”
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Re:

06 Nov 2017 10:03

fmk_RoI wrote:A long New Yorker story on the search for exercise in a pill, covering GlaxoSmithKline's GW510516 and the University of Southampton's Compound 14 and a lot more besides. Worth the read.
Iron Julius still takes 516, although lately he has noticed a decrease in the drug’s quality. “I’m a volunteer firefighter so stamina at times is very important,” he explained. “If you research, many police and firefighters are on some form of performance-enhancing substance as the jobs are sometimes physically demanding.” Iron Julius told me that around a third of the people he sees at the gym are using 516, without any side effects that he’s heard about. When I asked whether he would recommend it, his response was, “Hell yeah man, try it. It don’t mess with hormones and it increases performance.”


Thanks for the link, will have a read. Small note on that quote (bolded bit), that's exactly what it does do. It's a PPARd agonist, PPARd being a transcription factor that causes peroxisome proliferation (peroxisomes are responsible for long chain fatty acid metabolism among other things). GW501516 is basically a synthetic hormone. If you read about it then it'll likely not be referred to in that way, as it isn't specific enough. It'll be referred to as a PPAR ligand or something along those lines.

This highlights a major issue. For many people, when you say hormone, they think of steroidal hormones and human growth hormone, but there are many different hormones, many of which occur naturally in the diet, many which are endogenously produced and many which can be taken exogenously. In fact, testosterone and human growth hormone are very good examples of how different hormones can be. People apply the small amount of knowledge they have and it can be very dangerous. I think this is the first publication showing the relationship between GW501516 and tumour proliferation:

https://www.nature.com/articles/nm993


Although the chances of this happening were already understood as you can see from this paper by the same authors:

http://www.pnas.org/content/97/24/13275


You'll note that these papers are by the same first and last author, DuBois has several publications in this area and you'll also note a GW researcher listed as an author.
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