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Cannondale getting dropped in the new era of cycling

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Re: Re:

06 Sep 2017 15:24

Benotti69 wrote:
.Froomestrong. wrote:
Benotti69 wrote:JV has burned through a lot of sponsors.

Maybe that is result linked or as Fmk demonstrates that JV's mouths is way ahead of his thought process. If i was a business man i would not slam someone who did not sponsor me this year, because who knows they might in 2 or 3 years, but if i criticise them now for not they definitely won't in the future. Maybe JV is MBA smarts but not practical smarts.

I mean a WT team should be winning their home races, especially if their sponsors are from there. That should be #1 goal to keep sponsors keen and happy. Tour of Alberta not won by JV in this a time when he desperately needs results? Not smarts.


Agreed- not smart to throw shade when you are looking for sponsors, in my opinion. But again, its hard to say that I could do it better since Im not the one running a WT team. Glass houses and all that.

WRT the Tour of Alberta, his guys did just win 3 of 4 stages, so in reality they got exactly what they wanted for the sponsors- pictures of his guys winning and posting up, and podium shots.
Yes, they 17 of us on the forum will say that they didnt win GC, but I dont think many sponsors even know what that is. Optics are what matter most in sponsorship. Just saying...


When you put your head above the parapet and boy JV loves doing it, he just cant stand the negatives (which he mostly creates) be prepared to get shot at.

Winning overall is the end result as that is the final podium and generates more publicity. Yeah they did well but not well enough! Optics being what matter, final podium gets most. Hence some of JV's sponsor problems.

I think sponsors nowadays are very careful where they put their monies and know what generates most publicity. I guess american companies have hosts of interns researching stuff like this. Be mad not too!


To be clear- Im not defending JV as much as Im pointing out that at some point the criticism becomes more of a personal attack. Id just prefer not to kick a guy when he is down, and right now, he is clearly down. Why throw a drowning man an anchor, you know?

Also- as someone who specifically deals with athlete and team sponsorships in racing, I would strongly disagree with your claim about sponsors understanding GC and other "nuances" of bike racing. It is way off base. And yes, it is seen as a nuance.
By example- my LBS has a bunch of older Cannondale PR posters of Sagan winning stages at ToC and TdF. In exactly none of those posters do they mention GC, or even the green jersey.
Why?
Because it doesnt matter to the majority of people who would likely be influenced by the advertising. Really.
So again, winning 3 or 4 stages at ToA, will be much better for marketing than winning 1 of 4 and the GC.

The only place that GC "generates more publicity" is the yellow jersey at TdF- but then I dont think that any corporate sponsors right now are thinking that they have a shot at the yellow while UK Postal is running roughshod over the bunch.
If I had to spend the rest of eternity trapped in a lift with an armchair football manager or an armchair marginal gains scientist, I would take the former in a heartbeat.
.Froomestrong.
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06 Sep 2017 15:30

I would argue JV is not down, but the staff are going to be down. JV is doing ok financially, you can be sure of that. His ego will take a hit.

But pro cycling is a dirty sport and anyone getting invloved with it better have their eyes open. Not a sport for long term employment for many.
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Re: Re:

06 Sep 2017 15:44

.Froomestrong. wrote:Agreed- not smart to throw shade when you are looking for sponsors, in my opinion.
So would it be fair to say there are things in his sponsor dealings that one could criticise him over? (And let's be fair here - you don't have to be able to walk a mile in his shoes to be able to point out that he's limping.)
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Re: Re:

06 Sep 2017 15:51

Benotti69 wrote:Winning overall is the end result as that is the final podium and generates more publicity. Yeah they did well but not well enough! Optics being what matter, final podium gets most. Hence some of JV's sponsor problems.
I think it was in response to a question about how he could have a TdF podium finisher and still not be able to land a sponsor that JV said results don't actually matter, they don't much alter what a sponsor is buying.
Benotti69 wrote:I think sponsors nowadays are very careful where they put their monies and know what generates most publicity. I guess american companies have hosts of interns researching stuff like this. Be mad not too!
I posted a comment on the finance thread, Bob Stapleton pointing out that the companies who would have previously considered sponsoring cycling believe they're getting more bang for their bucks from AdSense placements than the (mythical) 3.5 billion worldwide TV viewers standard cycling pitches offer. Cycling needs to broaden its sponsor gene pool.
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Re: Re:

06 Sep 2017 16:05

fmk_RoI wrote:
Benotti69 wrote:Winning overall is the end result as that is the final podium and generates more publicity. Yeah they did well but not well enough! Optics being what matter, final podium gets most. Hence some of JV's sponsor problems.
I think it was in response to a question about how he could have a TdF podium finisher and still not be able to land a sponsor that JV said results don't actually matter, they don't much alter what a sponsor is buying.
Benotti69 wrote:I think sponsors nowadays are very careful where they put their monies and know what generates most publicity. I guess american companies have hosts of interns researching stuff like this. Be mad not too!
I posted a comment on the finance thread, Bob Stapleton pointing out that the companies who would have previously considered sponsoring cycling believe they're getting more bang for their bucks from AdSense placements than the (mythical) 3.5 billion worldwide TV viewers standard cycling pitches offer. Cycling needs to broaden its sponsor gene pool.


I would have thought it was a results driven business for sponsors looking for publicity and results dictate the amount of publicity. Being on the top step of a podium is maximum publicity. But then JV has said lots of BS over the years.

I agree with what Stapleton said(companies think they're getting more bang for their bucks from AdSense placements than the (mythical) 3.5 billion worldwide TV viewers). I dont agree that companies get more from AdSense (but what do i know) and i do agree that Advertising and sponsoring are still trying to figure how to best to reach its target audiences.
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Re: Re:

06 Sep 2017 16:15

Benotti69 wrote:I would have thought it was a results driven business for sponsors looking for publicity and results dictate the amount of publicity. Being on the top step of a podium is maximum publicity. But then JV has said lots of BS over the years.
I'm not so sure. I think it's about profile and maybe about engagement and you can get that without winning. Look at the way Orica engages its fan base, look at the little team that could narrative that is often used. Yes, some results matter to some: Sky, for instance, need the results, for Murdoch to be able to show how he's buying international pride for the country and so questions shouldn't be asked about the extent of his empire or the antics of his employees. Or a team like Aqua Blue - the current little team that could - that's about a narrative of ambition (which, admittedly, at some point down the line wears thin and you either need to switch up to a new narrative or get the results the old one promised). Short version: it differs for different teams and different sponsors but isn't always results driven.
Benotti69 wrote:I dont agree that companies get more from AdSense (but what do i know) and i do agree that Advertising and sponsoring are still trying to figure how to best to reach its target audiences.
Marketers think online works, that you can accurately target to your chosen demographic, and they like it cause it has clearer (albeit equally inaccurate) metrics.
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Re: Re:

06 Sep 2017 17:07

fmk_RoI wrote:
Benotti69 wrote:I would have thought it was a results driven business for sponsors looking for publicity and results dictate the amount of publicity. Being on the top step of a podium is maximum publicity. But then JV has said lots of BS over the years.
I'm not so sure. I think it's about profile and maybe about engagement and you can get that without winning. Look at the way Orica engages its fan base, look at the little team that could narrative that is often used. Yes, some results matter to some: Sky, for instance, need the results, for Murdoch to be able to show how he's buying international pride for the country and so questions shouldn't be asked about the extent of his empire or the antics of his employees. Or a team like Aqua Blue - the current little team that could - that's about a narrative of ambition (which, admittedly, at some point down the line wears thin and you either need to switch up to a new narrative or get the results the old one promised). Short version: it differs for different teams and different sponsors but isn't always results driven.
Benotti69 wrote:I dont agree that companies get more from AdSense (but what do i know) and i do agree that Advertising and sponsoring are still trying to figure how to best to reach its target audiences.
Marketers think online works, that you can accurately target to your chosen demographic, and they like it cause it has clearer (albeit equally inaccurate) metrics.


Not gonna disagree with much here. Samll teams with small sponsors wont expect results as such and look at other ways to garner exposure through their sponsorship, but a WT team that talks big and i think JV likes to talk big, expect results (wins) to match.I think Americans like winning and JVs sponsorts tend to be aimed at Yanks so they need to see wins.
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Re: Re:

07 Sep 2017 03:45

fmk_RoI wrote:
.Froomestrong. wrote:Agreed- not smart to throw shade when you are looking for sponsors, in my opinion.
So would it be fair to say there are things in his sponsor dealings that one could criticise him over? (And let's be fair here - you don't have to be able to walk a mile in his shoes to be able to point out that he's limping.)


Well, of course there are probably things in his dealing with sponsors over the years that are fine to critique- but its difficult to do that not knowing what has gone on behind the scenes. I have not personally seen him do something publicly that was truly insane/damaging. Yeah, he may have cast shade, but again, that is a far cry from what I believe would warrant the sort of invective that he gets here.
As an aside, I do know a few people that have sponsored/worked with his teams over the years, and while they have all said he is..."interesting", they have all said that he did a good job representing their products. (This is from 3 different product reps going back to the late 2000's)
Ultimately, I dont have a "dog in this fight", so Im not emotionally invested here one way or another.
I do however try to have empathy in situations here, mostly because Im old and my experience has been that life is complicated and messy. *shrugs*
If I had to spend the rest of eternity trapped in a lift with an armchair football manager or an armchair marginal gains scientist, I would take the former in a heartbeat.
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Re:

07 Sep 2017 03:50

Benotti69 wrote:I would argue JV is not down, but the staff are going to be down. JV is doing ok financially, you can be sure of that. His ego will take a hit.

But pro cycling is a dirty sport and anyone getting invloved with it better have their eyes open. Not a sport for long term employment for many.


Im sure JV will be fine financially, but I doubt he is going this to get rich. As you probably know, the best way to make a million dollars in bike racing is to start with five million.
Like him or not, the guy has spent his life building this team/organization, and if it ends like this it would be a bad blow for him. I wouldnt wish that sort of thing on anyone.
If I had to spend the rest of eternity trapped in a lift with an armchair football manager or an armchair marginal gains scientist, I would take the former in a heartbeat.
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07 Sep 2017 20:03

Having told their riders to man the lifeboats and save themselves, Crapac now says all 2018 contracts will be enforced:
"As of right now, I am informing you that if you have a contract with Slipstreamsports for 2018, we are enforcing your contract. More to come.”
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07 Sep 2017 20:54

Who all has a 2018 contract with this outfit? Uran, Rolland, and ???
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Re:

07 Sep 2017 22:06

fmk_RoI wrote:Having told their riders to man the lifeboats and save themselves, Crapac now says all 2018 contracts will be enforced:
"As of right now, I am informing you that if you have a contract with Slipstreamsports for 2018, we are enforcing your contract. More to come.”


JV knows how to win friends and influence........building strong teams bonds, hmmmmmm :lol:
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Re: Re:

07 Sep 2017 22:29

Benotti69 wrote:
fmk_RoI wrote:Having told their riders to man the lifeboats and save themselves, Crapac now says all 2018 contracts will be enforced:
"As of right now, I am informing you that if you have a contract with Slipstreamsports for 2018, we are enforcing your contract. More to come.”


JV knows how to win friends and influence........building strong teams bonds, hmmmmmm :lol:


Maybe he's going to merge with, AKA destroy, some other small team
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08 Sep 2017 05:54

JV wisely chose a "flexible goal" for that crowdfunding campaign, so he still gets to con his fans out of their $529,080 (thus far).
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Re:

08 Sep 2017 13:26

proffate wrote:JV wisely chose a "flexible goal" for that crowdfunding campaign, so he still gets to con his fans out of their $529,080 (thus far).


Thats the most ****** part about this whole thing
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09 Sep 2017 13:19

I find it odd that Talansky retires way before the end of the season at 28.

No interest in riding a last worlds or a last monument Lombardia and savour it before hanging up his bike......strange, it is almost like he cant finish the season, because maybe he tested positive...........anyways all his doping buddies were wishing him well, Hincapie et al........


PS could not see a Talansky thread, if mods want to move feel free.
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09 Sep 2017 16:22

Vaughters not watching the freak show of La Vuelta. Crazy to think this guy claims to be dedicated to anti-doping and yet wants to continue in the sport.
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09 Sep 2017 20:48

So the CD EF deal appears to see EF taking a majority stake (eventually) in Slipstream Sports. Here's the question that needs to be asked but won't be - will this be done by issuing new shares and thus bringing money into the team, or will it be done by existing shareholders selling some (all?) of their stakes to EF, thus putting money into their own back pockets?
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Re:

09 Sep 2017 20:55

fmk_RoI wrote:So the CD EF deal appears to see EF taking a majority stake (eventually) in Slipstream Sports. Here's the question that needs to be asked but won't be - will this be done by issuing new shares and thus bringing money into the team, or will it be done by existing shareholders selling some (all?) of their stakes to EF, thus putting money into their own back pockets?


Tweet him and watch him block you :D
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10 Sep 2017 17:07


The team will keep crowdsourced funds and will fulfill all promises associated with donations — everything from mugs and tote bags to rides with the team.

The cash raised through crowdfunding will be used for two purposes. First, the team will drastically increase its spending on science and technology. “Everything from aerodynamics to nutrition. Just executing well on what is known to work,” Vaughters said. “We haven’t always done that. Sometimes when you’re scraping on a budget, things fall through the cracks.”


Read more at http://www.velonews.com/2017/09/news/cannondale-becomes-ef-education-first-drapac_447772#GoQlWzM3QixMXPxJ.99

Jeez no mention of internal testing for dope.......

Still no mention of Danielson.....

Ah well JV the clown still giving us all a laugh in pro cycling circus :)
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