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Brits don't dope?

The Clinic is the only place on Cyclingnews where you can discuss doping-related issues. Ask questions, discuss positives or improvements to procedures.

Moderators: Irondan, Eshnar, Red Rick, Valv.Piti, Pricey_sky, Tonton, King Boonen

Re:

25 Oct 2017 09:46

Freddythefrog wrote:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/2017/10/23/drug-cheats-will-not-face-time-jail-rules-review/



“None of those interviewed were in favour of criminalisation. Sports bodies believe that their investigations would be affected by criminalisation of doping in sport as it would slow down their own processes. The review found that criminalising the act of doping in sport would not add to combating doping in sport with the provisions that already exist sufficient.

“The report found that the strongest deterrent for athletes and their support staff is lengthy bans from their involvement in sport as well as the inevitable loss of earnings as a result of that.”

Yeah - way to go - criminalisation would slow down investigations and adequate deterent exists.

Can Tracey tell us when the UKAD investigation into Linda McCartney will be completed. Only been going for five years to date. Makes the Jiffybag investigation look like it is still at the pre-school stage.

Anti-doping works. La la la, I am not listening la la la. Who did she speak to ? Seb, Paula, Brad, Sutton and Sapstead ?


I'm not sure I agree with your interpretation of what they said but there is certainly an interesting discussion to be had around whether criminalising the act of doping is worthwhile. Personally I don't think it is, just like I don't think criminalising drug users is particularly helpful. It's much better to pursue those who traffic, distribute and administer the doping through the current legal/professional framework available. There are no doubt improvements that could be made here, although I'm not at all confident in my knowledge of those laws and their limits nationally and internationally to make suggestions.

Why do you think criminalising the act of doping is a sensible way forward?
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User avatar King Boonen
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Re: Re:

25 Oct 2017 10:12

King Boonen wrote:
Freddythefrog wrote:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/2017/10/23/drug-cheats-will-not-face-time-jail-rules-review/



“None of those interviewed were in favour of criminalisation. Sports bodies believe that their investigations would be affected by criminalisation of doping in sport as it would slow down their own processes. The review found that criminalising the act of doping in sport would not add to combating doping in sport with the provisions that already exist sufficient.

“The report found that the strongest deterrent for athletes and their support staff is lengthy bans from their involvement in sport as well as the inevitable loss of earnings as a result of that.”

Yeah - way to go - criminalisation would slow down investigations and adequate deterent exists.

Can Tracey tell us when the UKAD investigation into Linda McCartney will be completed. Only been going for five years to date. Makes the Jiffybag investigation look like it is still at the pre-school stage.

Anti-doping works. La la la, I am not listening la la la. Who did she speak to ? Seb, Paula, Brad, Sutton and Sapstead ?


I'm not sure I agree with your interpretation of what they said but there is certainly an interesting discussion to be had around whether criminalising the act of doping is worthwhile. Personally I don't think it is, just like I don't think criminalising drug users is particularly helpful. It's much better to pursue those who traffic, distribute and administer the doping through the current legal/professional framework available. There are no doubt improvements that could be made here, although I'm not at all confident in my knowledge of those laws and their limits nationally and internationally to make suggestions.

Why do you think criminalising the act of doping is a sensible way forward?

I do not wish to answer for Freddy, but, and I am a layman so at the risk of simplifying the issue: I would say "why not?". What are the downsides?
This is professional sports, with a lot of (often public) money at stake, much more than in many other branches and businesses. And so doping/cheating your way to a win is a serious form of financial fraud. Why not criminalize it, so as to encourage investigations that actually lead somewhere. What is/are the downsides?

edit: having said that, I would agree it's a bit harsh for an amateur athlete to end up with a criminal record for taking a substance s/he didn't know was banned. But at least at a professional level I think criminalization is sensible and warranted. It would, however, require very fine-grained legislation. Not sure if possible to have different legislation for professionals than for amateurs?
sniper
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25 Oct 2017 12:01

I would argue that doping is already criminalized in cases where professionals are involved.

Simply under "obtaining property through deception" or "fraud" for larger amounts.
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11 Nov 2017 13:21

In case you missed it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPUoJ61sOEM

16.35mins in.

"apart from the child who supplies urine samples to the british cycling team".

Tells you all you need to know about the perception of cycling. Doping, doping, doping, doping.................
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20 Nov 2017 23:15

British Cycling continued to work with the company (Fit4SportUK)that allegedly sent testosterone incorrectly to them, in 2011, for the next 6 years, terminating the relationship on Monday.

Edit: This company just went dark

https://twitter.com/Fit4SportUK
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21 Nov 2017 00:04

Turn on the shredder run for the hills, the feds are comin
There must be huge quantities of medicines ordered from these guys...
User avatar 70kmph
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Re:

21 Nov 2017 13:45

70kmph wrote:Turn on the shredder run for the hills, the feds are comin
There must be huge quantities of medicines ordered from these guys...



They sell to Leeds Rhinos, Lancashire CC and Manchester United.

Apparently they do not have a pharmaceutical licence to sell testosterone patches.

Brailsford and co working will illegal dope(PED) pushers.
User avatar Benotti69
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Re: Re:

21 Nov 2017 18:02

Benotti69 wrote:
70kmph wrote:Turn on the shredder run for the hills, the feds are comin
There must be huge quantities of medicines ordered from these guys...



They sell to Leeds Rhinos, Lancashire CC and Manchester United.

Apparently they do not have a pharmaceutical licence to sell testosterone patches.

Brailsford and co working will illegal dope(PED) pushers.


That is why this story will continue to gain legs, there actually were illegal activities and those like Sam Hocking, et al, can march around with their, "Wiggins is exonerated!" banners but this really is the proverbial tip of the doping iceberg and the truth will come to light.
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Re: Re:

21 Nov 2017 20:29

Ironhead Slim wrote:
Benotti69 wrote:
70kmph wrote:Turn on the shredder run for the hills, the feds are comin
There must be huge quantities of medicines ordered from these guys...



They sell to Leeds Rhinos, Lancashire CC and Manchester United.

Apparently they do not have a pharmaceutical licence to sell testosterone patches.

Brailsford and co working will illegal dope(PED) pushers.


That is why this story will continue to gain legs, there actually were illegal activities and those like Sam Hocking, et al, can march around with their, "Wiggins is exonerated!" banners but this really is the proverbial tip of the doping iceberg and the truth will come to light.


Sam can bleat all he likes, but Sky are digging deeper holes for themselves.

That Wiggins cant produce evidence he is a life long asthma sufferer really knocks the wind out any sails he may have had for an excuse for Kenacort, never mind that it is not prescribed in the UK by Doctors, even specialists and that Sky have been caught lying about it, never mind not having a TUE for the jiffybag Kenacort, never mind getting the testosterone from an illegal source. Wiggins has not mentioned in any of his books he is a long term asthma sufferer.

Amazing they never learnt the lessons from the Armstrong/Bruyneel errors they made and kept low a key media approach and just raced. Nope got greedy and egotisitical about it all.
User avatar Benotti69
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Re: Re:

21 Nov 2017 23:49

Benotti69 wrote:
Ironhead Slim wrote:
Benotti69 wrote:
70kmph wrote:Turn on the shredder run for the hills, the feds are comin
There must be huge quantities of medicines ordered from these guys...



They sell to Leeds Rhinos, Lancashire CC and Manchester United.

Apparently they do not have a pharmaceutical licence to sell testosterone patches.

Brailsford and co working will illegal dope(PED) pushers.


That is why this story will continue to gain legs, there actually were illegal activities and those like Sam Hocking, et al, can march around with their, "Wiggins is exonerated!" banners but this really is the proverbial tip of the doping iceberg and the truth will come to light.


Sam can bleat all he likes, but Sky are digging deeper holes for themselves.

That Wiggins cant produce evidence he is a life long asthma sufferer really knocks the wind out any sails he may have had for an excuse for Kenacort, never mind that it is not prescribed in the UK by Doctors, even specialists and that Sky have been caught lying about it, never mind not having a TUE for the jiffybag Kenacort, never mind getting the testosterone from an illegal source. Wiggins has not mentioned in any of his books he is a long term asthma sufferer.

Amazing they never learnt the lessons from the Armstrong/Bruyneel errors they made and kept low a key media approach and just raced. Nope got greedy and egotisitical about it all.


No one suffers from asthma. You manage it. It’s not that hard to treat, it’s really simple in fact.
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Yesterday 08:48

testosterone patches - skybots keep ignoring that
Digger
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Re: Re:

Yesterday 10:28

Benotti69 wrote:
70kmph wrote:Turn on the shredder run for the hills, the feds are comin
There must be huge quantities of medicines ordered from these guys...

...
Apparently they do not have a pharmaceutical licence to sell testosterone patches.

Brailsford and co working will illegal dope(PED) pushers.


To be fair the licence to sell online does cover 'general sales list' medicines, a category which probably includes a few PEDs. The client list has disappeared from the website but the PDF catalogue is still downloadable and that mentions all sorts of substances by name, including triamcinolone (as Kenalog).

I suppose that it is a bit strange that a company called "Fit 4 Sport" would routinely supply Kenalog and other corticosteroids but then it's not up to that company to tell customers when and how they should use it.
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Re: Re:

Yesterday 14:00

L'arriviste wrote:
Benotti69 wrote:
70kmph wrote:Turn on the shredder run for the hills, the feds are comin
There must be huge quantities of medicines ordered from these guys...

...
Apparently they do not have a pharmaceutical licence to sell testosterone patches.

Brailsford and co working will illegal dope(PED) pushers.


To be fair the licence to sell online does cover 'general sales list' medicines, a category which probably includes a few PEDs. The client list has disappeared from the website but the PDF catalogue is still downloadable and that mentions all sorts of substances by name, including triamcinolone (as Kenalog).

I suppose that it is a bit strange that a company called "Fit 4 Sport" would routinely supply Kenalog and other corticosteroids but then it's not up to that company to tell customers when and how they should use it.


I think that since the company went 'dark', it is because something is not legit or right.
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