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Brits don't dope?

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Re: Re:

17 Sep 2018 17:21

Benotti69 wrote:
samhocking wrote:
Benotti69 wrote:
samhocking wrote:I would need more evidence than that to consider him doping with Terb, sorry.


A 4 month ban for abanned substance.

No documentary proof of childhood asthma and of course you believe him.

:lol:

One born every minute.


He confirmed asthma since childhood with UCI.


He didn't produce evidence.


to you he didn't, he doesn't have to prove it to you
rick james
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Re: Re:

17 Sep 2018 17:23

Benotti69 wrote:
samhocking wrote:Yates TUE was already granted for asthma by UCI from what i've read about his case, it's just that the doctor failed to include terbutaline. ie he had a TUE for Salbutomol, but declared he had taken Terbutaline on his Paris Nice control form.


And just to prove to everyone he is on the up ( an English expression i believe), he produced historical documents proving he is a long time asthmatic.

Cycling has always been a sport where the culture to dope is the norm. Show me where and how that has changed that it is now possible for a clean rider to win a 3 week long endurance race over riders who are doping to beat the band!



you seem confused, you are the one claiming things, its up to you to show proof....and your opinion doesn't count for proof
rick james
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Re: Re:

17 Sep 2018 18:51

rick james wrote:
Mayo from Mayo wrote:
rick james wrote:For Queen and country


Be nice if the 3 'Brits' paid taxes to queen and country.

Do Andorrans and Monegasques dope?



their tax business has nothing to do with you


I'd have thought it may concern an uber fleg waving Brit like yourself.
Mayo from Mayo
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Re: Brits don't dope?

17 Sep 2018 18:56

You simply can't get the TUE without medical evidence of having asthma. Without that attached to your TUE Application it will simply be rejected. Now, we can argue his statement is untrue that he's not had asthma since childhood or we can argue his team doctor and GP/Consultant faked lung function tests and that he's had it since childhood and we can argue UCI ignored everything or accepted everything using some evidence, but if that's all true, then 'everyone' in the peloton can and would do the same, if such fakery easily gains them an advantage in Grand Tours so still doesn't explain Yate's success over them anyway.
samhocking
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Re: Re:

17 Sep 2018 19:38

Mayo from Mayo wrote:
rick james wrote:
Mayo from Mayo wrote:
rick james wrote:For Queen and country


Be nice if the 3 'Brits' paid taxes to queen and country.

Do Andorrans and Monegasques dope?



their tax business has nothing to do with you


I'd have thought it may concern an uber fleg waving Brit like yourself.


Nobody has a problem with Sagan living in Monaco not paying his tax, but he's not British lol! Maybe Slovakians are up in arms about him?
samhocking
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Re: Re:

17 Sep 2018 20:10

samhocking wrote:
Mayo from Mayo wrote:
rick james wrote:
Mayo from Mayo wrote:
rick james wrote:For Queen and country


Be nice if the 3 'Brits' paid taxes to queen and country.

Do Andorrans and Monegasques dope?



their tax business has nothing to do with you


I'd have thought it may concern an uber fleg waving Brit like yourself.


Nobody has a problem with Sagan living in Monaco not paying his tax, but he's not British lol! Maybe Slovakians are up in arms about him?


You are not correct, next time try to read first, e.g.: https://spravy.pravda.sk/ekonomika/clanok/443081-dane-zaplatia-doma-uz-aj-sagan-ci-hantuchova/
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Re: Brits don't dope?

17 Sep 2018 20:16

rick james wrote:
ngent41 wrote:
rick james wrote:
[url=<span class="skimlinks-unlinked">http://forum.cyclingnews.com/viewtopic.php?p=2313236#p2313236</span>]lartiste[/url] wrote:Interesting, that the rise of anglo-saxons in GT is that connected with alleged use of motors in cycling. According to newest french book Varjas sold first small motor in late 1998. The information about motor doping spreaded about 2010.

First is coincidently connected with rise of Postal, second with Sky.

You know the guy that’s won the most for these Anglo Saxons that are on the rise is African


who does he ride for in the olympics?


yes the mighty Great Britain and Northern Ireland , but he is African, he was born in Africa....class him Anglo Saxon all you want but he isn't



I am not sure where do you come from, since it most probably can influence your point of view. I will try to explain you basic principles concerning nationality and citizenship. In US it is based on soil (place of birth), but in Europe (with exception of Ireland if I remember correctly) on blood (nationality of parents). So the answer is here in wikipedia: "Froome, whose parents are British, was born in Kenya and grew up there and in South Africa." Simple as that.
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Re: Brits don't dope?

17 Sep 2018 20:56

samhocking wrote:You simply can't get the TUE without medical evidence of having asthma. Without that attached to your TUE Application it will simply be rejected. Now, we can argue his statement is untrue that he's not had asthma since childhood or we can argue his team doctor and GP/Consultant faked lung function tests and that he's had it since childhood and we can argue UCI ignored everything or accepted everything using some evidence, but if that's all true, then 'everyone' in the peloton can and would do the same, if such fakery easily gains them an advantage in Grand Tours so still doesn't explain Yate's success over them anyway.


Every man jack (and woman it seems) doing sports nowadays has frickin' asthma. The bs with EIA is rampant. Can we blame it on global PM pollution maybe? :rolleyes:
"Are you going to believe me or what you see with your own eyes?"

“It doesn’t matter what I do. People need to hear what I have to say. There’s no one else who can say what I can say. It doesn’t matter what I live.”
User avatar Robert5091
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17 Sep 2018 20:58

samhocking wrote:You simply can't get the TUE without medical evidence of having asthma. Without that attached to your TUE Application it will simply be rejected. Now, we can argue his statement is untrue that he's not had asthma since childhood or we can argue his team doctor and GP/Consultant faked lung function tests and that he's had it since childhood and we can argue UCI ignored everything or accepted everything using some evidence, but if that's all true, then 'everyone' in the peloton can and would do the same, if such fakery easily gains them an advantage in Grand Tours so still doesn't explain Yate's success over them anyway.

How familiar would you say Simon Yates was with all things asthma-related in this vid from 2014? He calls an inhaler a "puffer thing" and then drops it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRnInyTd8b8&feature=player_embedded#t=283

On balance, I'd say his "asthma" is caused by being a pro cyclist with access to a PED (given a doctor's note). I agree with you that TUE abuse is a trick available to all the top riders and it's probably just a #marginalgain
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Re: Brits don't dope?

17 Sep 2018 21:22

lartiste wrote:
rick james wrote:
ngent41 wrote:
rick james wrote:
[url=<span class="skimlinks-unlinked">http://forum.cyclingnews.com/viewtopic.php?p=2313236#p2313236</span>]lartiste[/url] wrote:Interesting, that the rise of anglo-saxons in GT is that connected with alleged use of motors in cycling. According to newest french book Varjas sold first small motor in late 1998. The information about motor doping spreaded about 2010.

First is coincidently connected with rise of Postal, second with Sky.

You know the guy that’s won the most for these Anglo Saxons that are on the rise is African


who does he ride for in the olympics?


yes the mighty Great Britain and Northern Ireland , but he is African, he was born in Africa....class him Anglo Saxon all you want but he isn't



I am not sure where do you come from, since it most probably can influence your point of view. I will try to explain you basic principles concerning nationality and citizenship. In US it is based on soil (place of birth), but in Europe (with exception of Ireland if I remember correctly) on blood (nationality of parents). So the answer is here in wikipedia: "Froome, whose parents are British, was born in Kenya and grew up there and in South Africa." Simple as that.

Wiki you say.... that’s me convinced!


He is Kenyan
rick james
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Re: Re:

17 Sep 2018 21:57

rick james wrote:
Benotti69 wrote:
samhocking wrote:
Benotti69 wrote:
samhocking wrote:I would need more evidence than that to consider him doping with Terb, sorry.


A 4 month ban for abanned substance.

No documentary proof of childhood asthma and of course you believe him.

:lol:

One born every minute.


He confirmed asthma since childhood with UCI.


He didn't produce evidence.


to you he didn't, he doesn't have to prove it to you


Amazingly Callum Skinner felt it was necessary.

But i supppose Uncle Brian would believe young Simon if Simon says........
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Re: Re:

17 Sep 2018 21:59

rick james wrote:
Benotti69 wrote:
samhocking wrote:Yates TUE was already granted for asthma by UCI from what i've read about his case, it's just that the doctor failed to include terbutaline. ie he had a TUE for Salbutomol, but declared he had taken Terbutaline on his Paris Nice control form.


And just to prove to everyone he is on the up ( an English expression i believe), he produced historical documents proving he is a long time asthmatic.

Cycling has always been a sport where the culture to dope is the norm. Show me where and how that has changed that it is now possible for a clean rider to win a 3 week long endurance race over riders who are doping to beat the band!



you seem confused, you are the one claiming things, its up to you to show proof....and your opinion doesn't count for proof


Oh if only it was opinion Richard. Sadly it is long proven that nearly all GT winners are dopers, so if one wanted to be considered clean one must do the proving, well obviously not to guys like you, by the way i have a great pyramid scheme you and Samhocking would love, it has a unionjack logo too :lol:
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Re: Brits don't dope?

17 Sep 2018 22:03

samhocking wrote:You simply can't get the TUE without medical evidence of having asthma. Without that attached to your TUE Application it will simply be rejected. Now, we can argue his statement is untrue that he's not had asthma since childhood or we can argue his team doctor and GP/Consultant faked lung function tests and that he's had it since childhood and we can argue UCI ignored everything or accepted everything using some evidence, but if that's all true, then 'everyone' in the peloton can and would do the same, if such fakery easily gains them an advantage in Grand Tours so still doesn't explain Yate's success over them anyway.


How does a rider prove they have asthma. Oh yeah the team doctor paid for the team they ride for. Who accpets they have asthma, oh yeah the UCI, that organisation that hates doping and cheating!

Please Sam leave it out mate!

I would love to see Yates success explained how he, the cleanest of clean (oops please ignore ban and asthma), beat the dopers over 3 weeks.......probably wanted it more, trained harder, marginal gains, more focus, yada yada yada
User avatar Benotti69
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Re: Brits don't dope?

17 Sep 2018 22:04

rick james wrote:He is Kenyan


Funny that a guy who is Kenyan would ride for another country. Kind of cheating when you think about it. He rides for a country where he stands to gian a better advantage. Yep that is cheating.
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Re: Brits don't dope?

18 Sep 2018 01:20

Robert5091 wrote:
samhocking wrote:You simply can't get the TUE without medical evidence of having asthma. Without that attached to your TUE Application it will simply be rejected. Now, we can argue his statement is untrue that he's not had asthma since childhood or we can argue his team doctor and GP/Consultant faked lung function tests and that he's had it since childhood and we can argue UCI ignored everything or accepted everything using some evidence, but if that's all true, then 'everyone' in the peloton can and would do the same, if such fakery easily gains them an advantage in Grand Tours so still doesn't explain Yate's success over them anyway.


Every man jack (and woman it seems) doing sports nowadays has frickin' asthma. The bs with EIA is rampant. Can we blame it on global PM pollution maybe? :rolleyes:


some numbers here: In less than twenty years, the percentage of asthmatics has increased by more than 40% in adolescents and in France, every ten minutes is born an asthmatic future. Each year, there are 2,000 deaths related to asthma. Review of details of a disease in full progress in France but also around the world.
Swiss specialists estimate that 8% of the population of their country suffer from asthma, against only 2% 25 or 30 years ago;
In Germany, it is estimated that there are 4 million asthmatics;
In the whole of Western Europe, according to a Belgian institute, the Institute of Allergology UBC, the incidence of asthma has doubled in ten years;
In the United States, the number of asthmatics has increased by more than 60% since the early 1980s and the number of deaths from the disease has doubled to 5,000 per year;
There are approximately 3 million asthmatics in Japan, of which 7% have severe asthma and 30% have moderate asthma;
In Australia, 1 child in 10 (under 16 years old) is affected.
http://www.doctissimo.fr/html/sante/mag_2000/mag0811/sa_2150_asthme.htm

Asthma in the world : The Global Asthma Report 2018. ... Asthma kills around 1000 people every day and affects as many as 339 million people - and prevalence is rising. Low- and middle-income countries disproportionally suffer the most severe cases.
global report 2018 : http://globalasthmareport.org/
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Re: Brits don't dope?

18 Sep 2018 04:10

Benotti69 wrote:
samhocking wrote:You simply can't get the TUE without medical evidence of having asthma. Without that attached to your TUE Application it will simply be rejected. Now, we can argue his statement is untrue that he's not had asthma since childhood or we can argue his team doctor and GP/Consultant faked lung function tests and that he's had it since childhood and we can argue UCI ignored everything or accepted everything using some evidence, but if that's all true, then 'everyone' in the peloton can and would do the same, if such fakery easily gains them an advantage in Grand Tours so still doesn't explain Yate's success over them anyway.


How does a rider prove they have asthma. Oh yeah the team doctor paid for the team they ride for. Who accpets they have asthma, oh yeah the UCI, that organisation that hates doping and cheating!

Please Sam leave it out mate!

I would love to see Yates success explained how he, the cleanest of clean (oops please ignore ban and asthma), beat the dopers over 3 weeks.......probably wanted it more, trained harder, marginal gains, more focus, yada yada yada

I heard he was on his bike 6hrs a day...
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18 Sep 2018 08:53

I must admit that "Why would someone without asthma get a TUE? If that worked, you'd see tons of people taking asthma meds in the peloton" was funny.
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Re: Re:

18 Sep 2018 08:57

lartiste wrote:[quote="

You are not correct, next time try to read first, e.g.: https://spravy.pravda.sk/ekonomika/clanok/443081-dane-zaplatia-doma-uz-aj-sagan-ci-hantuchova/


That amendment is simply adding residency in Slovakia, it's not forcing you to pay tax. As long as Sagan doesn't reside there, he won't pay any tax and 183 days still applies.
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Re: Brits don't dope?

18 Sep 2018 09:15

Archibald wrote:
Benotti69 wrote:
samhocking wrote:You simply can't get the TUE without medical evidence of having asthma. Without that attached to your TUE Application it will simply be rejected. Now, we can argue his statement is untrue that he's not had asthma since childhood or we can argue his team doctor and GP/Consultant faked lung function tests and that he's had it since childhood and we can argue UCI ignored everything or accepted everything using some evidence, but if that's all true, then 'everyone' in the peloton can and would do the same, if such fakery easily gains them an advantage in Grand Tours so still doesn't explain Yate's success over them anyway.


How does a rider prove they have asthma. Oh yeah the team doctor paid for the team they ride for. Who accpets they have asthma, oh yeah the UCI, that organisation that hates doping and cheating!

Please Sam leave it out mate!

I would love to see Yates success explained how he, the cleanest of clean (oops please ignore ban and asthma), beat the dopers over 3 weeks.......probably wanted it more, trained harder, marginal gains, more focus, yada yada yada

I heard he was on his bike 6hrs a day...


I think you're forgetting UCI don't know the result and rider name, until it comes back from WADA lab positive. All UCI knew was Yates TUE didn't match his Terbutaline declaration on his sample and what WADA lab found in that sample. All we know is team doctor failed to include Terbutaline on the TUE. Either he was given a Terbutaline inhaler instead of a Salbutomol one that wouldn't require a TUE, or most likely the TUE was for a steroid preventer and doctor simply didn't add the Terbutaline reliever on the form along with it that's all.
samhocking
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18 Sep 2018 11:44

Why might an athlete abuse terbutaline?

http://erj.ersjournals.com/content/42/Suppl_57/P3960
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