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Badzilla, the disease of champions

The Clinic is the only place on Cyclingnews where you can discuss doping-related issues. Ask questions, discuss positives or improvements to procedures.

Moderators: Irondan, Eshnar, Red Rick, Pricey_sky, Tonton, King Boonen, Valv.Piti

17 Jul 2013 21:42

The parasite defense is hilarious.
Almost better than Tyler's unborn twin story.
Good luck dawg, you will need it.
Dazed and Confused
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17 Jul 2013 21:46

CF: Bilharzia – it’s a water-borne disease, which I found that I had it in December last year. It feeds on your red blood cells, for a cyclist, it was a nightmare. I must have touched some contaminated water somewhere in Africa. I probably had it for year before I found it. That just drained my immune system. I was always getting little colds and coughs, nothing serious, but it always kept me from being at 100-percent fitness.


i'm no doctor, but what do red blood cells have to do with his immune system? white blood cells are what make up the immune system. or did he mean white blood cells? what the hell?

i only noticed this because i was once diagnosed with a lowered immune system do to a low WBC count.
User avatar zlev11
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17 Jul 2013 21:49

Stradebianche wrote:Here you go :
“TUEs are a rather personal issue, but I am able to say I do not have any TUEs during this Tour,” Froome said. “Hopefully I will not have any.”

From here;
http://velonews.competitor.com/2013/07/news/froome-confirms-no-tue-still-treated-for-bilharzia-parasite_295548


them two highlighted parts for me scream out to me. When he says "this tour", does that mean he has had TUE's for previous races?

and then he says he "hopefully" wont need any for this tour. Again, that means, in my opinion anyway is that he has had TUE's in the past, and more than likely he has one at the ready in case he fails a random test.

Its a bloody joke
chrisb
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17 Jul 2013 21:51

He does not cure it on purpose so the parasites keep the blood values fluctuation. Thus blood passport is useless and can't be used for Froome. Thus he can do anything one could do pre Bloodpassport.

Theory alternative to Aicar & GW1516 and Froome being a super-responder.
Or he is just clean and a top3 greatest cycling talent in history.
Almeisan
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17 Jul 2013 21:53

chrisb wrote:them two highlighted parts for me scream out to me. When he says "this tour", does that mean he has had TUE's for previous races?

and then he says he "hopefully" wont need any for this tour. Again, that means, in my opinion anyway is that he has had TUE's in the past, and more than likely he has one at the ready in case he fails a random test.

Its a bloody joke


I guess maybe he is referring to if a saddle sore or something comes along then it might necessitate the need??
Odd thing to say though..
craig walsh always with us
User avatar mewmewmew13
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Hold On

17 Jul 2013 21:56

Just found this meta-study of cure rates of schistosomiasis from studies across Africa.

[url]http://www.plosntds.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pntd.0001321#pntd-0001321-t002[/url]

A two-dose cure is more effective than a single-dose depending on the severity of the disease. Is it TWICE the cure? No. But, two doses has a slightly higher cure probability. Severe cases appear to get the two-dose treatment.

Basically, unless the guy is actively seeking out places to re-infect himself, it reads like the disease can be tracked in the body and the cures available are swift and very effective.
User avatar DirtyWorks
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17 Jul 2013 21:57

patswana posted some interesting info in one of the may threads regarding, Badzilla. They should be added here if they aren;t already.
User avatar BYOP88
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17 Jul 2013 22:00

Granville57 wrote:Indeed, but without an accompanying image it is doomed to miss the podium.

Get to work on that, Bro. :cool:

Image
User avatar hrotha
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17 Jul 2013 22:02

BYOP88 wrote:patswana posted some interesting info in one of the may threads regarding, Badzilla. They should be added here if they aren;t already.


http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showpost.php?p=1305083&postcount=6413

Basically, some temporary negative reactions and then cured.

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showpost.php?p=1305081&postcount=6411
User avatar DirtyWorks
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17 Jul 2013 22:08

Almeisan wrote:He does not cure it on purpose so the parasites keep the blood values fluctuation. Thus blood passport is useless and can't be used for Froome. Thus he can do anything one could do pre Bloodpassport.

Theory alternative to Aicar & GW1516 and Froome being a super-responder.
Or he is just clean and a top3 greatest cycling talent in history.


Yes, like we hoped Lance was.
I can come up with only one name for the top-3. The others never rode clean, or against too doped riders for us to ever tell.
Cloxxki
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17 Jul 2013 22:14

Pretty f'ing funny that it took a snail to deliver the strongest, fastest rider in pro cycling. :D



Image









And maybe that's no SRM that Froome Dawg keeps looking down at. :eek:

Image
User avatar Granville57
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17 Jul 2013 22:16

chrisb wrote:them two highlighted parts for me scream out to me. When he says "this tour", does that mean he has had TUE's for previous races?

and then he says he "hopefully" wont need any for this tour. Again, that means, in my opinion anyway is that he has had TUE's in the past, and more than likely he has one at the ready in case he fails a random test.

Its a bloody joke


The same article also quotes "a source" who said that no one on team SKY had a TUE "at this tour".
Its an interesting caveat to a straight question,i suspect nothing that comes out from SKY is accidental ;)
Stradebianche
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17 Jul 2013 22:21

Stradebianche wrote:The same article also quotes "a source" who said that no one on team SKY had a TUE "at this tour".
Its an interesting caveat to a straight question,i suspect nothing that comes out from SKY is accidental ;)


its a real diplomatic answer isnt it. Like when politicians are asked questions and they bypass it completely but give minuscule details to let think they actually did answer it
chrisb
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17 Jul 2013 22:30

LS post states that julich said 'they' tested for it and found it after the tour of california, but isn't Froome on the record as stating that the blood passport testers found it after he asked them to check because he wasn't feeling well? Is this another discrepancy or does the 'they' refer to the passport testers?

Do the dates tally here too?

Sorry, don't have links to hand but i recall seeing a quote from froome (in the froome thread) about the passport testers discovering it first.

Edit: At the end of 2010, I was back home in Kenya visiting my family, and it was that time of year to do the UCI blood passport checks, so I went and had the tests done and at the same time I said to the doctors “I haven’t been great all year, can we just check a full screening for anything, and they came back immediately and said you have this parasite…”


Also in Jan 2013 he said he took Biltricide
bewildered
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17 Jul 2013 22:38

bewildered wrote:LS post states that julich said 'they' tested for it and found it after the tour of california, but isn't Froome on the record as stating that the blood passport testers found it after he asked them to check because he wasn't feeling well? Is this another discrepancy or does the 'they' refer to the passport testers?

Do the dates tally here too?

Sorry, don't have links to hand but i recall seeing a quote from froome (in the froome thread) about the passport testers discovering it first.

Edit: At the end of 2010, I was back home in Kenya visiting my family, and it was that time of year to do the UCI blood passport checks, so I went and had the tests done and at the same time I said to the doctors “I haven’t been great all year, can we just check a full screening for anything, and they came back immediately and said you have this parasite…”


Also in Jan 2013 he said he took Biltricide


You can find these quotes in the following documentary made by the NOS (Dutch Sport broadcasting):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbGVe73b_9U

You can find it around 11:00.
Jahudor
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17 Jul 2013 22:40

Some other things to add that were posted on the Froome and/or Gas6 thread:

1) Schistosomiasis affects hemoglobin but not red cell count (hematocrit). Antigens (released proteins) from the eggs are thought to react with the hemoglobin, inactivating it, with the result that individual red cells are less effective at oxygen binding and transport. The body’s immune system reacts with the antigens, which results in many of the symptoms.

2) The overall (hematological) result is reduced hemoglobin, and reduced hemoglobin/red cell ratio, which should be picked up by the biopassport. An article that was linked on one of those threads found an average reduction of hemoglobin of about 15%. To put this in perspective, the effect of such a reduction on oxygen transport would be like reducing hematocrit (composed of red cells with normal Hb levels) by the same 15%, say, from 45 to around 39. This might in turn reduce V02max roughly 10%, say, from 80 to 72 (this relationship is far more variable, though, and could be much more or less). Following treatment with praziquantel, one would expect an increase in hemoglobin to normal levels.

3) As I discussed at length on these other threads, IF Froome indeed has been chronically infected with the disease, as he seems to be claiming, the lowered hemoglobin should stimulate EPO synthesis and increase reticulocytes. Another effect that ought to be seen in the passport. As I speculated before, a chronic low level of these antigens could conceivably result in a more or less permanent elevation of EPO and retics. If he were then to be treated successfully, there might be a period when he had the advantage of this elevated EPO without ongoing inactivation of hemoglobin.

4) Should be noted that one of the posters, Patswana, claims to treat tropical diseases, and posted some useful information. Another poster, whose name I forget, said he had the disease, and was cured with a single treatment. Said the symptoms were relatively mild.
Music is the opioid of the masses.
Merckx index
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17 Jul 2013 22:49

Merckx index wrote:Some other things to add that were posted on the Froome and/or Gas6 thread:

1) Schistosomiasis affects hemoglobin but not red cell count (hematocrit). Antigens (released proteins) from the eggs are thought to react with the hemoglobin, inactivating it, with the result that individual red cells are less effective at oxygen binding and transport. The body’s immune system reacts with the antigens, which results in many of the symptoms.

2) The overall (hematological) result is reduced hemoglobin, and reduced hemoglobin/red cell ratio, which should be picked up by the biopassport. Following treatment with praziquantel, one would expect an increase in hemoglobin to normal levels.

3) As I discussed at length on these other threads, IF Froome indeed has been chronically infected with the disease, as he seems to be claiming, the lowered hemoglobin should stimulate EPO synthesis and increase reticulocytes. Another effect that ought to be seen in the passport. As I speculated before, a chronic low level of these antigens could conceivably result in a more or less permanent elevation of EPO and retics. If he were then to be treated successfully, there might be a period when he had the advantage of this elevated EPO without ongoing inactivation of hemoglobin.

4) Should be noted that one of the posters, Patswana, claims to treat tropical diseases, and posted some useful information. Another poster, whose name I forget, said he had the disease, and was cured with a single treatment. Said the symptoms were relatively mild.


This is starting to get really interesting. Inconsistencies between what Froome or Julich or Brailsford say are one thing, but this goes one step further. The points mentioned above are indications that it might be possible for Froome to manipulate his biopassport and might also explain his higher suscebtibility for EPO. It could also explain why it is exactly Froome who has made such an incredible leap in his performance.
Jahudor
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17 Jul 2013 22:50

Granville57 wrote:Pretty f'ing funny that it took a snail to deliver the strongest, fastest rider in pro cycling. :D



Image











And maybe that's no SRM that Froome Dawg keeps looking down at. :eek:

Image


Ought to setup a travel business offering cyclists trips to the deep Africa:

- Train on Kilimanjaro
- No Big Macs
- Visit a mine
- Parasites guaranteed
Dazed and Confused
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17 Jul 2013 22:53

Dazed and Confused wrote:Ought to setup a travel business offering cyclists trips to the deep Africa:

- Train on Kilimanjaro
- No Big Macs
- Visit a mine
- Parasites guaranteed


The only biological prerequisite is bad motor control. All the rest is trainable.
Jahudor
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17 Jul 2013 22:59

Jahudor wrote:The only biological prerequisite is bad motor control. All the rest is trainable.


but Jahudor, how much are your prepared to pay for such a package, if we can correct the poor motor control as well?
Dazed and Confused
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