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Badzilla, the disease of champions

The Clinic is the only place on Cyclingnews where you can discuss doping-related issues. Ask questions, discuss positives or improvements to procedures.

Moderators: Irondan, Eshnar, Red Rick, Valv.Piti, Pricey_sky, Tonton, King Boonen

13 Dec 2013 12:38

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showpost.php?p=1314256&postcount=134

Full timeline of quotes is here (from earlier in thread)
bewildered
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13 Dec 2013 12:45

Cyivel wrote:This is what he said in December last year



This is what he said today

Great find psy-evil.

The usual suspects will no doubt once again employ the - sky simply got a little bit confused and it's out of order to expect a patient to know every detail about his disease, defense in the usual patronizing tone, but deep down they know too there is no reconciling those 2 comments.
The Hitch: Winner 2013 Vuelta cq game. Winner, Velorooms prediction game 2012, 2013. 2nd all time cq rankings.
The Father of Clean Cycling, Christophe Bassons wrote:When I look at cycling today, I get the impression that history is repeating itself: riders who are supposed to be rouleurs are climbing passes at the front of the race, and those who are supposed to be climbers are riding time trials at more than 50 kilometres per hour.

The story is beginning again, just as it did 14 years ago


journalist with integrity.
User avatar The Hitch
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13 Dec 2013 12:51

The Hitch wrote:Sky also said bilharzia was a lifelong disease from which froome will NEVER be cured.

the fact that in the middle of the off season after supernaturally carrying it for 3 years and contesting gts with it, he is "cured" from his "incurable" disease is bull ****.


hey man if you could get link for that I would love to tweet it thanks
Doping died with Lance.
Digger
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13 Dec 2013 14:06

Digger wrote:hey man if you could get link for that I would love to tweet it thanks


My bad. It seems they did not say say it can never be cured,(the person who said it was making it up)

But they did say that Froome can't be sure when its cured because it can always reappear, so its surprising now to see he is certain it can be cured.

Today:
That is fantastic news for me. I'm not going to have to worry about that any more. That should be it gone now.


Before:
Froome believes he contracted it while fishing with his brother in Kenya. But taking biltricide, which he describes as "just like a poison – it kills everything in your stomach good and bad" – every six months has helped manage the symptoms, even if there is an unspoken fear that it could return




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bKuqFBrE9o 11 minutes in.
"I probably still haven't got rid of it. It is something, every six months I have to go for checks"



How does Froome know now he will never get it again, if before he could never be certain?



Doesn't matter much anyway though since the whole premise of someone having Bilharzia for 4 years and winning the TDF and olympic medals with it, makes 0 sense to start with.
The Hitch: Winner 2013 Vuelta cq game. Winner, Velorooms prediction game 2012, 2013. 2nd all time cq rankings.
The Father of Clean Cycling, Christophe Bassons wrote:When I look at cycling today, I get the impression that history is repeating itself: riders who are supposed to be rouleurs are climbing passes at the front of the race, and those who are supposed to be climbers are riding time trials at more than 50 kilometres per hour.

The story is beginning again, just as it did 14 years ago


journalist with integrity.
User avatar The Hitch
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13 Dec 2013 14:45

So much for Froome-dog winning any more races then.

Dave.
Lance says he will cooperate with Landis Investigation

"I've done too many good things for too many people"
D-Queued
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13 Dec 2013 14:45

Cyivel wrote:This is what he said in December last year



This is what he said today


Hold it. Now he is claiming he was diagnosed in 2009?
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13 Dec 2013 14:46

Vanishing twin, whisky defence, bilharzia...
nomapnocompass
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13 Dec 2013 14:53

BroDeal wrote:Hold it. Now he is claiming he was diagnosed in 2009?


If you look at the quotes in the link bewildered posted, he has mentioned 2009 before but there is some confusion/contradiction over the date as well.
Cyivel
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13 Dec 2013 14:54

nomapnocompass wrote:Vanishing twin, whisky defence, bilharzia...


They was robbed.

Dave.
Lance says he will cooperate with Landis Investigation

"I've done too many good things for too many people"
D-Queued
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13 Dec 2013 14:57

D-Queued wrote:So much for Froome-dog winning any more races then.

Dave.


I suppose it will be back to zig-zagging up the climbs.
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13 Dec 2013 15:05

He said he was diagnosed 'I think it was the end of 2009 actually' in Dec 2012. Today is the second time he has referred to 2009 as the date of his first diagnosis. Every other time he has referred to the end of 2010 and the passport testers informing him for the first time.

He has twice stated that he 'probably' had it for a year before they found it. He is being inconsistent again but it's an inconsistency that was there before anyway.

maybe an attempt to rewrite history or perhaps to close off questions about the unexplainable recurrence of this normally routinely treated disease.
bewildered
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13 Dec 2013 15:33

I'd love to hear what some of those from the early conversations who have experience with bilharzia think about someone living with bilharzia undetected for 5 years yet still being able to show in training power outputs so high that everyone around him knew he was capable of dominating the tour de France.
The Hitch: Winner 2013 Vuelta cq game. Winner, Velorooms prediction game 2012, 2013. 2nd all time cq rankings.
The Father of Clean Cycling, Christophe Bassons wrote:When I look at cycling today, I get the impression that history is repeating itself: riders who are supposed to be rouleurs are climbing passes at the front of the race, and those who are supposed to be climbers are riding time trials at more than 50 kilometres per hour.

The story is beginning again, just as it did 14 years ago


journalist with integrity.
User avatar The Hitch
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13 Dec 2013 16:27

The Hitch wrote:I'd love to hear what some of those from the early conversations who have experience with bilharzia think about someone living with bilharzia undetected for 5 years yet still being able to show in training power outputs so high that everyone around him knew he was capable of dominating the tour de France.


LOL
so true Hitchey :D

undetected for five years!!
craig walsh always with us
User avatar mewmewmew13
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13 Dec 2013 16:45

The Hitch wrote:I'd love to hear what some of those from the early conversations who have experience with bilharzia think about someone living with bilharzia undetected for 5 years yet still being able to show in training power outputs so high that everyone around him knew he was capable of dominating the tour de France.

http://www.patient.co.uk/health/schistosomiasis-leaflet

''Chronic schistosomiasis
This is more common than acute schistosomiasis. Chronic means 'persistent' or 'ongoing'. If you have chronic schistosomiasis, you can first develop symptoms many months or years after you were first infected. It can cause long-term ill health.

The symptoms depend on the species of schistosoma that you have and where this species produces most of its eggs. Schistosoma mansoni and Schistosoma japonicum tend to produce eggs in the blood vessels around the bowel. Schistosoma haematobium tends to produce eggs in the blood vessels around the bladder. The symptoms are caused by your body's immune system reacting against the eggs that the worms produce, not by the worms themselves. This reaction can cause inflammation and scarring of the tissues and organs of the body.

If eggs are mainly produced in the blood vessels around the bowel, symptoms can include bloody diarrhoea and tummy (abdominal) pain which tends to be cramping. If they are produced in the blood vessels around the bladder, symptoms can include blood in your urine and pain on urinating.

Eggs that have not been excreted by the body can also travel to other parts of the body and cause symptoms. For example, your liver, lungs, heart, brain or nervous system may be affected. Symptoms depend on the affected area but can include:

Breathlessness.
Cough.
Palpitations.
Chest pain.
Liver failure.
Seizures.
Confusion.
Paralysis (if the spinal cord is involved).
Children who are repeatedly infected with schistosomiasis can develop anaemia, malnutrition, and learning difficulties.''


Good thing the guys organs werent affected in those FIVE years...

I sense a Disney film coming.
il Mito wrote:“I’m in pension, I don’t give a **** about training,” Ferrari said. “They are all strong without me. Did you see the Tour de France?”
User avatar Fearless Greg Lemond
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13 Dec 2013 17:55

Not sure how he thinks he is cured.

If you keep going back to the source then you can be reinfected.

Like the common cold. There's no cure and if you're others with the virus then it can be caught again.

So if he keeps swimming in Kenya then he might get it again.
User avatar thehog
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13 Dec 2013 19:05

thehog wrote:Not sure how he thinks he is cured.

If you keep going back to the source then you can be reinfected.

Like the common cold. There's no cure and if you're others with the virus then it can be caught again.

So if he keeps swimming in Kenya then he might get it again.


This deserves some disambiguation. Some of the reinfection rates in the public health research I read was due to the lack of consistent health care follow-up AND being exposed to the opportunity to be infected. The same is true for many of the consequences of Badzilla. Froome's case is none of those things.

Still, you are right. It's a great excuse if the PED's are working quite as well in early 2014 to claim Badzilla reinfection, then miraculously transform for a TdF none of his competitors are entering.
User avatar DirtyWorks
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26 Apr 2014 21:40

Bumping this thread. People discussing it in the Sky thread should have a read, there are a lot of answers to the questions floating around in that thread.

It's not that long of a thread, seems reasonable to take the time to read it if you're interested enough in the topic to keep bringing it up in the Sky thread.
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26 Apr 2014 22:51

red_flanders wrote:Bumping this thread. People discussing it in the Sky thread should have a read, there are a lot of answers to the questions floating around in that thread.

It's not that long of a thread, seems reasonable to take the time to read it if you're interested enough in the topic to keep bringing it up in the Sky thread.


What are your thoughts on the badzilla? Made up? legit? somewhere in between?
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User avatar the sceptic
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26 Apr 2014 23:52

the sceptic wrote:What are your thoughts on the badzilla? Made up? legit? somewhere in between?


Realising you asked someone else ;)

It seems plausible, however the waters become increasingly muddy the more conflicting the stories are unearthed regarding its discovery.

The story that really tipped me over the edge of wtfery was de Jongh or someone similar saying they discovered the Bilharzia through perusing Froome's training & racing diary. JFC what an absolute crock of brown stinky crap that made the rest of it look. Like de Jongh was some Kenyan parasitic diseases expert or something ffs.
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User avatar Dear Wiggo
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27 Apr 2014 00:19

Dear Wiggo wrote:Realising you asked someone else ;)

It seems plausible, however the waters become increasingly muddy the more conflicting the stories are unearthed regarding its discovery.

The story that really tipped me over the edge of wtfery was de Jongh or someone similar saying they discovered the Bilharzia through perusing Froome's training & racing diary. JFC what an absolute crock of brown stinky crap that made the rest of it look. Like de Jongh was some Kenyan parasitic diseases expert or something ffs.


It wasn't de Jongh,it was Julich,that other well known paragon of clean cycling.:rolleyes:
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