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Pulling a Wiggins

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07 Mar 2017 15:44

Kimmage gave Shane Stokes an interview for cycling tips

"‘I’ll show you a picture.’ He took out this book on the Giro d’Italia and there is a photo of Wiggins walking with his bike up one of the climbs at the race. So, you have got to ask yourself about that.

I’d met Wiggins for the first time at the 2007 Tour. His first experience in the Pyrenees…I saw him come in 12, 13 minutes behind Landis on the first Pyrenean stage, absolutely blitzed. Nobody was going to tell me that this guy was ever going to win the Tour de France. That was obvious from his state of distress that day. Also. a year later. when he was walking up climbs in the Giro."



Ouch! :D

Edit:https://cyclingtips.com/2017/03/interview-paul-kimmage-team-skys-charade-exposed/
Last edited by Benotti69 on 07 Mar 2017 15:55, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Re:

07 Mar 2017 15:50

Irondan wrote:The broke ones are the ones with a "Posse", family members that come out of the woodwork and fleece them and stupid enough to let they're "financial advisor" (lots of times this person is a close childhood friend rather than an accredited financial professional) either make terrible losing investments or simply rip them off outright. There's a fantastic espn 30/30 documentary on this very subject. Froome doesn't have a posse, nor does he have a giant family from the hood. Unless he makes awful investments or gets ripped off he will be well off until he dies.


Dan, that is your American lens. That is where the NBA players have twelve homies and table-service and 3k bottles of crystal at the hot Manhattan nightclub. That is not how it happens elsewhere. see: Jalen Rose breaking it down. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jqIgpAB0Yg
I remember reading about Cliff Levingston a basketballer at Atlanta trying to go with Dominique Wilkins when Wilkins was earning superstar money, and Levingston went broke. Also, Scottie Pippen needed a private plane, since MJ owned his own plane.

The consumption is very American and not equivalent in the ROW
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Re: Re:

07 Mar 2017 16:02

Irondan wrote:

The broke ones are the ones with a "Posse", family members that come out of the woodwork and fleece them and stupid enough to let they're "financial advisor" (lots of times this person is a close childhood friend rather than an accredited financial professional) either make terrible losing investments or simply rip them off outright. There's a fantastic espn 30/30 documentary on this very subject. Froome doesn't have a posse, nor does he have a giant family from the hood. Unless he makes awful investments or gets ripped off he will be well off until he dies.


Being so focused on being an athlete can make one less worldly.

Froome lives in Monaco at present. Will he move back to SA and buy a farm/vinetard and live the quiet live? Not sure.

Hinault tried to farm, gave it up as his sone showed no interest and went to work for ASO. Stephen Roche is broke.

Kimmage reckons Wiggins has about 12million stashed away. Buying expensive clothes, art, antique guitars, 5 star holidays, latest aston martins, etc etc eats into that quickly.

Again it depends on the character. Wiggins sees himself as rock n roll, but he's a fan no more. He aint going to be selling much after this debacle is over, maybe his art and antique guitars :lol:
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Re: Re:

07 Mar 2017 16:04

blackcat wrote:
Irondan wrote:The broke ones are the ones with a "Posse", family members that come out of the woodwork and fleece them and stupid enough to let they're "financial advisor" (lots of times this person is a close childhood friend rather than an accredited financial professional) either make terrible losing investments or simply rip them off outright. There's a fantastic espn 30/30 documentary on this very subject. Froome doesn't have a posse, nor does he have a giant family from the hood. Unless he makes awful investments or gets ripped off he will be well off until he dies.


Dan, that is your American lens. That is where the NBA players have twelve homies and table-service and 3k bottles of crystal at the hot Manhattan nightclub. That is not how it happens elsewhere. see: Jalen Rose breaking it down. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jqIgpAB0Yg
I remember reading about Cliff Levingston a basketballer at Atlanta trying to go with Dominique Wilkins when Wilkins was earning superstar money, and Levingston went broke. Also, Scottie Pippen needed a private plane, since MJ owned his own plane.

The consumption is very American and not equivalent in the ROW

Perhaps, but I was basing my response on benotti's claim about NFL players. I understand NBA players live in an alternate universe and think that they have an espn 30/30 docu all to themselves... :)
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Re: Re:

07 Mar 2017 16:10

blackcat wrote:
Irondan wrote:The broke ones are the ones with a "Posse", family members that come out of the woodwork and fleece them and stupid enough to let they're "financial advisor" (lots of times this person is a close childhood friend rather than an accredited financial professional) either make terrible losing investments or simply rip them off outright. There's a fantastic espn 30/30 documentary on this very subject. Froome doesn't have a posse, nor does he have a giant family from the hood. Unless he makes awful investments or gets ripped off he will be well off until he dies.


Dan, that is your American lens. That is where the NBA players have twelve homies and table-service and 3k bottles of crystal at the hot Manhattan nightclub. That is not how it happens elsewhere. see: Jalen Rose breaking it down. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jqIgpAB0Yg
I remember reading about Cliff Levingston a basketballer at Atlanta trying to go with Dominique Wilkins when Wilkins was earning superstar money, and Levingston went broke. Also, Scottie Pippen needed a private plane, since MJ owned his own plane.

The consumption is very American and not equivalent in the ROW


Anyone recollect Armstrong's $300grand p.a. water bill for his garden in Texas?
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Re: Re:

07 Mar 2017 16:12

Benotti69 wrote:
Irondan wrote:

The broke ones are the ones with a "Posse", family members that come out of the woodwork and fleece them and stupid enough to let they're "financial advisor" (lots of times this person is a close childhood friend rather than an accredited financial professional) either make terrible losing investments or simply rip them off outright. There's a fantastic espn 30/30 documentary on this very subject. Froome doesn't have a posse, nor does he have a giant family from the hood. Unless he makes awful investments or gets ripped off he will be well off until he dies.


Being so focused on being an athlete can make one less worldly.

Froome lives in Monaco at present. Will he move back to SA and buy a farm/vinetard and live the quiet live? Not sure.

Hinault tried to farm, gave it up as his sone showed no interest and went to work for ASO. Stephen Roche is broke.

Kimmage reckons Wiggins has about 12million stashed away. Buying expensive clothes, art, antique guitars, 5 star holidays, latest aston martins, etc etc eats into that quickly.

Again it depends on the character. Wiggins sees himself as rock n roll, but he's a fan no more. He aint going to be selling much after this debacle is over, maybe his art and antique guitars :lol:

How long is it until his wife leaves him over all this deceit? He better hope that he's a better husband than he is a citizen of the world. I don't know what divorce in the UK is like but here on the west coast of the US divorce can cost you a MINIMUM of 50% of everything you own and earned while married. That doesn't factor in the costs of huge child support payments, alimony, and all the rest of the costs associated of having kids and getting divorced. I'm not saying that's likely to happen anytime soon, but we won't know until it happens.
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Re: Re:

07 Mar 2017 16:17

blackcat wrote:The consumption is very American and not equivalent in the ROW

Yeah, not too sure about that.

Maybe it's a little less egregious, but not by much.
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Re: Re:

07 Mar 2017 16:19

Irondan wrote:
Benotti69 wrote:
Irondan wrote:

The broke ones are the ones with a "Posse", family members that come out of the woodwork and fleece them and stupid enough to let they're "financial advisor" (lots of times this person is a close childhood friend rather than an accredited financial professional) either make terrible losing investments or simply rip them off outright. There's a fantastic espn 30/30 documentary on this very subject. Froome doesn't have a posse, nor does he have a giant family from the hood. Unless he makes awful investments or gets ripped off he will be well off until he dies.


Being so focused on being an athlete can make one less worldly.

Froome lives in Monaco at present. Will he move back to SA and buy a farm/vinetard and live the quiet live? Not sure.

Hinault tried to farm, gave it up as his sone showed no interest and went to work for ASO. Stephen Roche is broke.

Kimmage reckons Wiggins has about 12million stashed away. Buying expensive clothes, art, antique guitars, 5 star holidays, latest aston martins, etc etc eats into that quickly.

Again it depends on the character. Wiggins sees himself as rock n roll, but he's a fan no more. He aint going to be selling much after this debacle is over, maybe his art and antique guitars :lol:

How long is it until his wife leaves him over all this deceit? He better hope that he's a better husband than he is a citizen of the world. I don't know what divorce in the UK is like but here on the west coast of the US divorce can cost you a MINIMUM of 50% of everything you own and earned while married. That doesn't factor in the costs of huge child support payments, alimony, and all the rest of the costs associated of having kids and getting divorced. I'm not saying that's likely to happen anytime soon, but we won't know until it happens.


I have to think that both Mrs Wiggins and Mrs Froome are fully aware of how their respective partners achieved their on the bike performances. I think it aided the former Mrs Armstrong greatly in her divorce settlement :D
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Re: Re:

07 Mar 2017 16:20

Benotti69 wrote:
blackcat wrote:
Irondan wrote:The broke ones are the ones with a "Posse", family members that come out of the woodwork and fleece them and stupid enough to let they're "financial advisor" (lots of times this person is a close childhood friend rather than an accredited financial professional) either make terrible losing investments or simply rip them off outright. There's a fantastic espn 30/30 documentary on this very subject. Froome doesn't have a posse, nor does he have a giant family from the hood. Unless he makes awful investments or gets ripped off he will be well off until he dies.


Dan, that is your American lens. That is where the NBA players have twelve homies and table-service and 3k bottles of crystal at the hot Manhattan nightclub. That is not how it happens elsewhere. see: Jalen Rose breaking it down. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jqIgpAB0Yg
I remember reading about Cliff Levingston a basketballer at Atlanta trying to go with Dominique Wilkins when Wilkins was earning superstar money, and Levingston went broke. Also, Scottie Pippen needed a private plane, since MJ owned his own plane.

The consumption is very American and not equivalent in the ROW


Anyone recollect Armstrong's $300grand p.a. water bill for his garden in Texas?

What? I've never heard that but I don't doubt it.

Do you have any idea how much water has to be consumed to get a $300k bill? In the US the average is $1.50 per 1000 gallons (per https://www.fcwa.org/story_of_water/html/costs.htm ). My quick math suggests that LA used 200,000,000 gallons of water to arrive at a $300k bill. That doesn't figure in the wastewater treatment which in most municipalities is based on how much water is used. LA's garden water consumption would be lower if these costs are figured into the equation, but still astronomically high.
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Re: Pulling a Wiggins

07 Mar 2017 16:26

Very good Kimmage interview in CyclingTips.....



Well, I am trying to think what year he was with High Road. Was that 2008? It was when he was with Marco Pinotti and High Road….

Yes, it was 2008.

Well, Marco actually… I remember interviewing Marco at his home in Italy a couple of years ago [for the online magazine 2r]. He said, ‘I’ll show you a picture.’ He took out this book on the Giro d’Italia and there is a photo of Wiggins walking with his bike up one of the climbs at the race. So, you have got to ask yourself about that.

I’d met Wiggins for the first time at the 2007 Tour. His first experience in the Pyrenees…I saw him come in 12, 13 minutes behind Landis on the first Pyrenean stage, absolutely blitzed. Nobody was going to tell me that this guy was ever going to win the Tour de France. That was obvious from his state of distress that day. Also. a year later. when he was walking up climbs in the Giro.

That wasn’t the kind of rider he was. And then to suddenly go from there to 2009 and this great performance in the Tour, you would have to ask questions about that. And there was that spike in his blood profile, too [Garmin released his Tour blood values after the race]. People did ask questions and the answers they got were not overly convincing, I would suggest.

So you would have to look at that and say that something definitely changed in that year. Was it as a result of something he shouldn’t have been doing? I don’t know, but you can definitely say that something changed.

I remember reading that 2r article you wrote, and specifically your mention of that photograph. Marco Pinotti was a rider who many believed was ethical. He is also not the type of person to stand up and make accusations about people. But in reading the article, I interpreted your mention of him showing you the photograph as him making a subtle point about Wiggins. Was that your impression at the time?

Yes, very much so. Very much so. I may be wrong, but that is how I interpreted it. That he didn’t believe in this guy.


https://cyclingtips.com/2017/03/interview-paul-kimmage-team-skys-charade-exposed/
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07 Mar 2017 17:02

Doubt Mrs Wiggins cares about her husband's deceit - Anyway Shane Stokes is an excellent journalist and very under-rated by the public at large.
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Re:

07 Mar 2017 17:13

yaco wrote:Doubt Mrs Wiggins cares about her husband's deceit - Anyway Shane Stokes is an excellent journalist and very under-rated by the public at large.

You don't know if the wife cares or not any more than I do. Personally I can attest that if my significant other found out that I was a liar, whether it was to her or anyone else she would seriously rethink having a relationship with me. A liar is a liar, believe me when I tell you this... women care more about honesty than almost anything else in a relationship. If perpetuating a lie as large as stealing the tour de france is something that a person is capable of doing then lying to the wife is just as easy.

This really isn't worth arguing over since neither one of us have any idea what's going on in the wiggo marriage, with this I'm done and moving on.
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07 Mar 2017 17:39

Ha! Has this discussion descended into whether the Wigan's are gonna get divorced now? Getting a bit 'Hello!' magazine is it not?

Good article by Shane Stokes with Kimmage, thanks whoever posted it.
Kimmage is one of very few journos who come out of this fiasco with integrity intact.
Could have done without his digs at David Walsh. it's a bit tired now that one, we all know he thinks Walsh is a class A tw*t and we all agree.

Very interesting reading about the Wigg's improvement timeline. Didn't realise it was so dramatic, always thought it was more gradual.

BBC Radio news just on now: Brailsford has released a press statement, and sent an 8 page explanatory document to the Select Committee. Synopsis: more bollox!
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07 Mar 2017 17:43

Freeman, who had been due to appear yesterday but is suffering from a stress-related illness, claimed the package had been a decongestant, Fluimucil, which is available over the counter, while UKAD said it had received a tip-off it was Triamcinolone, a corticosteroid.


http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/other-sports/leading-figures-at-british-cycling-and-team-sky-could-lose-jobs-after-probe-warns-damian-collins-mp-a3480131.html

When did this become common knowledge about UKAD receiving this tip off about the package ? Who would be privy to that sort of info ? Are there any retrospective tests that can be done on blood/urine for triamcinolone assuming the samples are still around ?
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Re:

07 Mar 2017 17:44

Dan2016 wrote:Ha! Has this discussion descended into whether the Wigan's are gonna get divorced now? Getting a bit 'Hello!' magazine is it not?

Good article by Shane Stokes with Kimmage, thanks whoever posted it.
Kimmage is one of very few journos who come out of this fiasco with integrity intact.
Could have done without his digs at David Walsh. it's a bit tired now that one, we all know he thinks Walsh is a class A tw*t and we all agree.

Very interesting reading about the Wigg's improvement timeline. Didn't realise it was so dramatic, always thought it was more gradual.

BBC Radio news just on now: Brailsford has released a press statement, and sent an 8 page explanatory document to the Select Committee. Synopsis: more bollox!

What? It was a simple comment that I made as a point in a larger comment and then someone jumped in to disagree. Is that what you read, because that's what was written. If that's turning this into a "magazine" then I guess the rest of the threads in this forum share the same fate because people talk about much more trivial things than what I mentioned. :confused: :rolleyes:
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Re:

07 Mar 2017 17:45

Dan2016 wrote:Ha! Has this discussion descended into whether the Wigan's are gonna get divorced now? Getting a bit 'Hello!' magazine is it not?

Good article by Shane Stokes with Kimmage, thanks whoever posted it.
Kimmage is one of very few journos who come out of this fiasco with integrity intact.
Could have done without his digs at David Walsh. it's a bit tired now that one, we all know he thinks Walsh is a class A tw*t and we all agree.

Very interesting reading about the Wigg's improvement timeline. Didn't realise it was so dramatic, always thought it was more gradual.

BBC Radio news just on now: Brailsford has released a press statement, and sent an 8 page explanatory document to the Select Committee. Synopsis: more bollox!


he was an ordinary prologue and tt rider for his first decade
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07 Mar 2017 17:57

Just being light-hearted Dan, didn't mean it as a genuine critique. I probs should've used a smiley or hashtag or somesuch. The speculation is all good banter.
Divorce rates are at a record high in the UK by the way, I think it's something like 60 - 70% don't make it past a 10 year sentence, I mean the 10 year mark. :)
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Re:

07 Mar 2017 18:07

bigcog wrote:
Freeman, who had been due to appear yesterday but is suffering from a stress-related illness, claimed the package had been a decongestant, Fluimucil, which is available over the counter, while UKAD said it had received a tip-off it was Triamcinolone, a corticosteroid.


http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/other-sports/leading-figures-at-british-cycling-and-team-sky-could-lose-jobs-after-probe-warns-damian-collins-mp-a3480131.html

When did this become common knowledge about UKAD receiving this tip off about the package ? Who would be privy to that sort of info ? Are there any retrospective tests that can be done on blood/urine for triamcinolone assuming the samples are still around ?


Yeah I read the same thing the other day too. Like you I'm curious about this tip-off and whether they have anything that's actionable. Journalists seem to all be saying there is a lot more still to come on this fiasco so maybe there is something explosive already known.

BBC Radio now: Brailsford saying mistakes were made but they had all the necessary protocols in place and this whole fiasco has been caused by rogue staff (my words) not following said protocols.
So he's really sticking with the 'throw 'em under the bus' approach.
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Re:

07 Mar 2017 18:09

Dan2016 wrote:Just being light-hearted Dan, didn't mean it as a genuine critique. I probs should've used a smiley or hashtag or somesuch. The speculation is all good banter.
Divorce rates are at a record high in the UK by the way, I think it's something like 60 - 70% don't make it past a 10 year sentence, I mean the 10 year mark. :)

ashley madison ftw
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Re: Re:

07 Mar 2017 18:18

blackcat wrote:
Dan2016 wrote:(snipped for brevity)

Very interesting reading about the Wigg's improvement timeline. Didn't realise it was so dramatic, always thought it was more gradual.


he was an ordinary prologue and tt rider for his first decade


Yeah I somehow had the impression he was making gradual progress. Probably unwittingly brainwashed by the cycling press in the UK, the sycophantic coverage at the time was never-ending.
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