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being on the record...manifesto baby

The Clinic is the only place on Cyclingnews where you can discuss doping-related issues. Ask questions, discuss positives or improvements to procedures.

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Re: being on the record...manifesto baby

19 Feb 2016 11:27

from the few nes we have

Sepulveda on the attack, Bennett Nibali and Pozzovivo chasing

go Georgeeee!!!!!!!!!! go Lotto Jumbo!
pastronef
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Re: being on the record...manifesto baby

14 Mar 2016 13:50

let me say that, about Paris-Nice.

If Yates was fighting for the win, I would have gladly cheered for him, or even Gallopin

let's imagine Thomas around 4th - 5th in GC, good perf as usual.

I would have genuinely cheered for the Orica guys without strings attached without hate/love reason

but just the fact Thomas and Sky have everybody against them, I cant help but cheer for them. this cheering could be defined "not genuine" "not true". fair to say that.
I will not remember Geraint Thomas 2016 Paris-Nice in a few years, as I wont with Poels' Volta Valenciana

me rooting for Sky is something strange. twitter and the clinic made me so. I cheer for spite
from people blaming Apollonio in 2015, to people tweeting a pic of dollars to Nieve when he re-upped with Sky and many other examples. I would never EVER behave like that even if I dislike a rider.

when the race is over I tell myself: "Fausto, you gone mad, you have always cheered for the less strong, the rider struggling, the one who comes second, the attacker".

I always cheered for riders with weird luck like Durand, Chiappucci, Vansummeren,Virenque, D.Martin, the Schlecks and co (apart from Miguel Indurian)
I always rooted for Garmin! hahaah! oh the disappointment in these years!

now I find me cheering for the strongest team.

:D

I challenge any Sky hater to think about their hate just how I am reasoning with my cheering.
pastronef
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27 Jun 2016 22:25

The big 3 tours were originally organised to sell more newspapers. It worked. I love to follow cycling, doping-warts and all, because fiction just can't make this kind of stuff up. It wouldn't be the same anymore if alien space bats took the doping away. I hope it stays dirty until I get very talented offspring.
cnfdugo
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Re: being on the record...manifesto baby

12 Jul 2016 08:12

I am guilty, well, very far potentially :p

If I had a "doping leak" , some kind of info about someone, or about some wrong doings, even about an athlete I dont like at all, I would not write to Vayer´s and his merry crew new website, Sportleaks.

I know, I´m bad.
pastronef
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22 Oct 2016 17:00

I thinkk this is the right thread to discuss Peraud?

Was he innocent, as he claims, in 1997 with a hematocrit over 50?
Has he published what his hematocrit was in any of the yyears since 1997?
That is, can he prove his normal/ clean is near that level?
Shame
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Re:

24 Oct 2016 11:06

Shame wrote:I thinkk this is the right thread to discuss Peraud?

Was he innocent, as he claims, in 1997 with a hematocrit over 50?
Has he published what his hematocrit was in any of the yyears since 1997?
That is, can he prove his normal/ clean is near that level?


I found this quote of peraud:

“I was regularly between 48 and 50 percent when resting. And since I’ve adapted my body to training and road race competitions, I’ve come down to around 45-47 percent,” he explained.
Read more at http://velonews.competitor.com/2014/12/news/tour-de-france-runner-peraud-driven-cheating-jibes_354955#zheTuHDOXX5ghtX7.99


That still doesn't say how much over 50 he was, nor why it would be 52 instead of 47.
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Re: being on the record...manifesto baby

28 Oct 2016 21:02

everyone chooses. some support Sutton and GB, some support the Bahrain Prince team. it´s our own free choice. can´t argue with that
pastronef
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10 Feb 2017 12:38

@Shame Peraud doped like the rest of the french MTB team back in the late 90s early 2000s. I recommend you looking up Peter Pouly. It's the famous french team with Absalon, Chiotti,Peraud, Pouly...
When it comes to HCT i recommend you reading this https://www.53x12.com/hematocrit-in-athletes
Vayer supports Pouly and Peraud because he coached them and thinks they're now clean. It is true that if indeed their lab results are correct their performances would be in what Sassi called the upper end of human physiology (Peraud VO2max of 86, Pouly 88) They definitely are gifted but we know that doping has long lasting effects on physiology so maybe those values aren't natural but the residual effects of years of doping.

@pastronef I get what you're saying. Leaking something on an athlete would only result in another doper getting the win... In regards to team choices supporting Bahrain is ridiculous, on the one hand I get why Italians would, it's basically an Italian team minus the bike and groupset... the rest unless you're a die hard fan of Dr.Ferrari's clients I don't see why... This is what cycling has to do to survive but prostituting themselves to the highest bidder is not something that should happen. Model needs to change to get rid of all that filth and yes SKY is included ;)
ThePopeOfDope
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Re: being on the record...manifesto baby

26 Jun 2017 19:06

anti-brit bias aside. is "the most incredible donkey to racehorse" stuff, about Froome, somehow related to the how the people perceive what should be fair or not?
is that thing choking in the followers throats every time they see Froome, because it is not allowed?
because ok gimme Boonen or Alberto and I will close eyes and ears and WANT to support them, while seeing Froome do the same it touches the "truth" alarm and also involves Alberto and Boonen and Nibali and all the others cause they dope too?
is Froome madness also ringing a bell for everyone? and that means people really understand they support dopers too, while before they pretended they didnt see? they pretended it was normal, it was the old euro doping tradition?
are we seeing the pesky brits doing what they werent supposed to do, go berzerk, win the Tours, and shake the old status quo where the old nations did the same but it was always so and it was fine?
pastronef
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Re: being on the record...manifesto baby

01 Aug 2017 09:11

pastronef wrote:anti-brit bias aside. is "the most incredible donkey to racehorse" stuff, about Froome, somehow related to the how the people perceive what should be fair or not?
is that thing choking in the followers throats every time they see Froome, because it is not allowed?
because ok gimme Boonen or Alberto and I will close eyes and ears and WANT to support them, while seeing Froome do the same it touches the "truth" alarm and also involves Alberto and Boonen and Nibali and all the others cause they dope too?
is Froome madness also ringing a bell for everyone? and that means people really understand they support dopers too, while before they pretended they didnt see? they pretended it was normal, it was the old euro doping tradition?
are we seeing the pesky brits doing what they werent supposed to do, go berzerk, win the Tours, and shake the old status quo where the old nations did the same but it was always so and it was fine?

It was not the same - the transformation was unique to Froome
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Re: being on the record...manifesto baby

01 Oct 2017 16:44

TourOfSardinia wrote:
pastronef wrote:anti-brit bias aside. is "the most incredible donkey to racehorse" stuff, about Froome, somehow related to the how the people perceive what should be fair or not?
is that thing choking in the followers throats every time they see Froome, because it is not allowed?
because ok gimme Boonen or Alberto and I will close eyes and ears and WANT to support them, while seeing Froome do the same it touches the "truth" alarm and also involves Alberto and Boonen and Nibali and all the others cause they dope too?
is Froome madness also ringing a bell for everyone? and that means people really understand they support dopers too, while before they pretended they didnt see? they pretended it was normal, it was the old euro doping tradition?
are we seeing the pesky brits doing what they werent supposed to do, go berzerk, win the Tours, and shake the old status quo where the old nations did the same but it was always so and it was fine?

It was not the same - the transformation was unique to Froome

Lance was the evidence that a guy with medium quality could win big. Froome the evidence that a guy with no talent could win big.
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17 Oct 2017 09:08

Didnt know where to put this so will put it here. Bit of a discussion on doping in general from 5 mins onwards.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7REC42JqU4
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Re:

25 Oct 2017 11:04

Maxiton wrote:1) I like manifestos in general.

2) Professional sports are about money, not sport. They are a simulacrum of sport, one in which their starring figures make a Faustian bargain in exchange for fame, fake glory, and, in exceptional cases, real riches.

3) In a system that is corrupt through and through, such as professional sports, fame can turn to infamy in a flash. The true stars of pro sports are not the players but the big money behind the scenes, and they won't tolerate anyone, or anything, who threatens their interests.

4) The only hope for reforming pro sport into something healthy and wholesome is a strong players union controlled by the players, combined with open discussion among enlightened fans who demand better than they are getting.

5) Lance Armstrong is a reprehensible character, but he is as much a victim as a perpetrator and a straw man where corruption in cycle sport is concerned. The sport is as corrupt now as it was in his heyday.

6) Today's cycling stars - Froome, Wiggins, Horner, et al. - and their teams, are as fake as Fox News. Vaughters and his team are no exception, far from it.

7) I too despise Bruce Springsteen.


....actually Brucie is/can be ok.....some of the fans not so much.....similar problem to the Dead crowd...
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Re: being on the record...manifesto baby

28 Oct 2017 01:47

pastronef wrote:anti-brit bias aside. is "the most incredible donkey to racehorse" stuff, about Froome, somehow related to the how the people perceive what should be fair or not?
is that thing choking in the followers throats every time they see Froome, because it is not allowed?
because ok gimme Boonen or Alberto and I will close eyes and ears and WANT to support them, while seeing Froome do the same it touches the "truth" alarm and also involves Alberto and Boonen and Nibali and all the others cause they dope too?
is Froome madness also ringing a bell for everyone? and that means people really understand they support dopers too, while before they pretended they didnt see? they pretended it was normal, it was the old euro doping tradition?
are we seeing the pesky brits doing what they werent supposed to do, go berzerk, win the Tours, and shake the old status quo where the old nations did the same but it was always so and it was fine?

Yes it's all about Brit bashing. :lol:

We've never had this discussion before :rolleyes:
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29 Nov 2017 17:02

Like other posts - not sure where else this could go.

https://twitter.com/andrewrheyes/status/935818911605514240

@mdsportex discussing causes of inadvertent Doping @ukantidoping @basesuk #BASESFEPSAC17 Examples such as Baxter, Williams and Warburton, Contador, Sharapova. Athletes must take care when purchasing medication and supplements


Dr Ian D. Boardley
@mdsportex

Senior Lecturer in Sport Psychology. Research specialisms in moral disengagement, anti-doping, & prosocial & antisocial behaviour.

Its hard to believe that in 2017 after all the sh1t of the last 30 years "inadvertent doping" is the best fit to Sharapova, Contador, Warburton and Williams. I suppose these are the numpties Raimondas Rumsas was targetting when he told then that van full of PEDs his wife was trafficing around France were for his mother in Law ?

Ian what is that doctorate in - "the nutritional requirements of unicorns and the effects on the UKs pixie population" ? The "wrong people"....... Yeah I will remember that next time, Edita must take care what meds she buys to help out her mother's ticklish, nightime, chesty, cough. Thanks, If I had only known.
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Re: being on the record...manifesto baby

09 Feb 2018 20:55

from the Froome thread question about reactions towards other riders if they were involved is a positive case like Froome

slosada wrote:
What would you, Sky fans, think if the subject was Nibali or Quintana or any other GC rider?


I´d buy a bucket of popcorns and enjoy the show. I am a Sky fan and I am interested in Sky and try to remember clinic posts and tweets and try to defend them (rightly and wrongly, I know)
I am not a hater nor focused on cyclists I dont like (or despise). I dont know what Nibali, Quintana, Sagan, Aru or other GC guys are doing, if they are on Strava, what they said in the interviews these years, if they wrote a book, the finish orders of the races they raced 2-3-4-7-10 years ago, where are they training every day, I dont check theit twitter or instagram, I dont know how many doctors their team have, if they train with motorpacing, if they use the same kit every day, if they are thin or fat, I dont know the average speed of their training, the zones of training power, their hearthrate etc. I dont care.
so I couldnt be on here analyzing their every action, words, pedal stroke, race finish and so on.
I would enjoy the show and read the reactions on here, but I can´t contribute to the accusations, or defence of these riders, because I dont know very much. I know it´s subjective.
I am a Sky defender but I wouldnt have the same drive in accusing any rider. sure, I would enjoy very much if Nibs or Sagan got caught, not for them, not because I want them to be erased and never see them ride, but for the fans, to see the fans reactions.
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Re: being on the record...manifesto baby

05 Apr 2018 00:12

pastronef wrote:from the Froome thread question about reactions towards other riders if they were involved is a positive case like Froome

slosada wrote:
What would you, Sky fans, think if the subject was Nibali or Quintana or any other GC rider?


I´d buy a bucket of popcorns and enjoy the show. I am a Sky fan and I am interested in Sky and try to remember clinic posts and tweets and try to defend them (rightly and wrongly, I know)
I am not a hater nor focused on cyclists I dont like (or despise). I dont know what Nibali, Quintana, Sagan, Aru or other GC guys are doing, if they are on Strava, what they said in the interviews these years, if they wrote a book, the finish orders of the races they raced 2-3-4-7-10 years ago, where are they training every day, I dont check theit twitter or instagram, I dont know how many doctors their team have, if they train with motorpacing, if they use the same kit every day, if they are thin or fat, I dont know the average speed of their training, the zones of training power, their hearthrate etc. I dont care.
so I couldnt be on here analyzing their every action, words, pedal stroke, race finish and so on.
I would enjoy the show and read the reactions on here, but I can´t contribute to the accusations, or defence of these riders, because I dont know very much. I know it´s subjective.
I am a Sky defender but I wouldnt have the same drive in accusing any rider. sure, I would enjoy very much if Nibs or Sagan got caught, not for them, not because I want them to be erased and never see them ride, but for the fans, to see the fans reactions.


I wish Gooner was still about but his blind faith lead him to deleting his account. Same happened with Lance, the most rabid just disappeared.
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20 Jul 2018 18:51

Not sure where else to put this. I just listened to a podcast from Danish TV 2, and the journalist said that "it is well-known that the 90's and some of the nougties were different than now regarding doping."

Really? Is that well-known? Isn't it just the narrative journos and insiders have been (successfully) pushing? I am neither for nor against doping and enjoy te sport regardless, but I have no doubt that doping in cycling hasn't mysteriously decreased (dramatically) in the last 10-15 years.
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