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being on the record...manifesto baby

The Clinic is the only place on Cyclingnews where you can discuss doping-related issues. Ask questions, discuss positives or improvements to procedures.

Moderators: Eshnar, King Boonen, Red Rick, Pricey_sky

10 Feb 2014 19:04

The Northern Classics Rule.

There are a bunch of compelling one-day races; Strade Bianche, Liege, Amstel, San Remo....

But let's be honest. The two best racing days of the year are Flanders and Roubaix. Nothing else is even close.


I never liked Springsteen or the Beatles.
Instigating profanity laced tirades since 2009
User avatar Scott SoCal
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10 Feb 2014 21:00

sittingbison wrote:This sticky is for declaring your opinions views and manifestos on the record, so it doesn't get lost in the (hog) wash

The True Monuments of Cycling:
The Catford Hill Climb
The Austral Wheelrace
The Southern Counties Good Friday Meeting
The Paarl Boxing Day Meeting
User avatar oldcrank
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10 Feb 2014 22:30

hiero2 wrote:Just about every regular who has called another poster a troll is also guilty of trolling. And everyone of them says, "Oh, I'm not guilty, I never do THAT!" Plumb amazing. Ironically -the prime name slapdown has happened even without me.


The problem with the new mods is a lack of understanding of what trolling is. The acid test is not whether someone lobs a bomb occasionally into a thread. That type of post keeps the place lively and often elicits interesting responses. The acid test is whether it is persistently disruptive or not. BPC would not simply post distortions. He would post distortions then doggedly post followup after follow up until the thread was not worth reading.

A muckraker is not necessarily a troll.
"Listen, my son. Trust no one! You can count on no one but yourself. Improve your skills, son. Harden your body. Become a number one man. Do not ever let anyone beat you!" -- Gekitotsu! Satsujin ken
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11 Feb 2014 07:29

Until I can see that things are getting cleaner at the pointy end of the very biggest races, stuff it, I'm gonna cheer for the biggest trolls on the road. In the past this has included Pantani, VDB, Vino, Mayo, RoboBasso, Ricco, Piepoli and Contador (when he was awesome) and current faves include guys like Gilbert, Boonen, Gerrans, Rodriguez, Cancellara and Sagan.

I just can't warm to the guys who have to carry on and on about how squeaky f#$%ing clean they (or their team) are. IMHO they should be keeping their tongues in their heads and be grateful that their names haven't been drawn from the lottery that the UCI has been using to determine their random positives.

Until we start seeing some real changes at the very highest level of pro riders I'm going to stick with this.

Having said that, I also believe that in the middle tier of the pro ranks, riders can't get away with as much as they used to, either quantity or quality (possibly both?), possibly through fear of the bio-passport and improved tests. Judging from what certified clean riders have achieved in the past I'll say that it may well be possible to be a solid watercarrier and win the very occasional small race without taking anything banned.
How to ride like a Tour champion!

proof noun (SHOWING TRUTH)

B2 [C or U] a fact or piece of information that shows that something exists or is true

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dict...ritish/proof_1


evidence noun [U] uk /ˈev.ɪ.dəns/ us

B2 one or more reasons for believing that something is or is not true

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dict...itish/evidence
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11 Feb 2014 19:13

Dr. Maserati wrote:Of course you don't agree with it.
You are another clueless follower of TheHog without an original thought. You appear to be a sock puppet and its very obvious you are an ex Armstrong supporter who now see's doping everywhere, its probably also why you railed against Walsh so hard because he hit the nail on the head about how the mob turned.
And no, I have no intention of going through your stupid posting history to link to it.


Good post Dr. Maserati.

Just in case anyone is any doubt - this is what I went for with the post:
Of course you don't agree with it. - Started out strong, made it personal with "you" as well as passively aggressively dismissing them.
You are another clueless follower of TheHog without an original thought. - For this line alone I deserve some type of award: Deliberate use of "you", but I also get to call Sceptic, TheHog and his followers as 'clueless' and 'without an original thought'.
You appear to be a sock puppet and its very obvious you are an ex Armstrong supporter who now see's doping everywhere, - All this would be irrelevant if true - which of course its not. I made up something, then I put you in a 'group' (LA supporter, ha) and then deliberately distorted your position on doping.
its probably also why you railed against Walsh so hard because he hit the nail on the head about how the mob turned - I knew mentioning Walsh would get you. It is such a tasty bait that you don't even realise that it is also totally irrelevant.
And no, I have no intention of going through your stupid posting history to link to it - This I am especially pleased with. Firstly, again, I dismiss all your posts as stupid. And then I anticipate your reaction and have it already countered that I have no intention of backing up any of the BS I made up.
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14 Feb 2014 15:06

Uhm... did you just agree with your own post?
Aka The Ginger One.
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14 Feb 2014 23:18

RedheadDane wrote:Uhm... did you just agree with your own post?


He is mocking the poster who has had more comeback attempts than Lance but unlike Lance is not banned for life.....but should be.
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14 Feb 2014 23:27

pmcg76 wrote:He is mocking the poster who has had more comeback attempts than Lance but unlike Lance is not banned for life.....but should be.


They also both present false information as insider stories (hog's notorious breaking news posts from 2009 to 2011 which included Lance pulling out of the TDF and Contador signing for Garmin)
The Hitch: Winner 2013 Vuelta cq game. Winner, Velorooms prediction game 2012, 2013. 2nd all time cq rankings.
The Father of Clean Cycling, Christophe Bassons wrote:When I look at cycling today, I get the impression that history is repeating itself: riders who are supposed to be rouleurs are climbing passes at the front of the race, and those who are supposed to be climbers are riding time trials at more than 50 kilometres per hour.

The story is beginning again, just as it did 14 years ago


journalist with integrity.
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14 Feb 2014 23:37

The Hitch wrote:They also both present false information as insider stories (hog's notorious breaking news posts from 2009 to 2011 which included Lance pulling out of the TDF and Contador signing for Garmin)


To be fair, Contador could sign for Garmin he'd fit right in.
Proud member of the 'don't believe the PR from Slipstream Sports' Club.
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14 Feb 2014 23:47

BYOP88 wrote:To be fair, Contador could sign for Garmin he'd fit right in.


The negotiations did happen, and JV said he believes Contador is clean because his tests were really really good.

Don't say JV doesn't learn from his mistakes though. His method for telling whether or not Froome is clean is far better thought out and more substantial.

He has seen that Froomies test results are really really good.
The Hitch: Winner 2013 Vuelta cq game. Winner, Velorooms prediction game 2012, 2013. 2nd all time cq rankings.
The Father of Clean Cycling, Christophe Bassons wrote:When I look at cycling today, I get the impression that history is repeating itself: riders who are supposed to be rouleurs are climbing passes at the front of the race, and those who are supposed to be climbers are riding time trials at more than 50 kilometres per hour.

The story is beginning again, just as it did 14 years ago


journalist with integrity.
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18 Feb 2014 22:15

Race Radio wrote:I think that several of SKY performance are not normal and I have made this clear several times. Froome on the top part of Ventoux showed he could likely put :30-1min on Quintana on a 30-40 min climb. That would put him around 38:30 on Alp d'Huez, or even faster on an easier stage. Not Normal. Semnoz is also not normal, highest output of the race. Uran in the Giro? Not normal. I think Sky knows this and that is why they didn't resign him. JTL? Doper. They would have to have been idiots to not know this. Classics riders using Cortisone OOC without a TUE, legal but certainly not ethical. I still don't know what to make of Wiggins or Porte. I also don't think there is a team program.....Flame away I just don't know.

As much as I think this w/kg stuff is interesting I am far from an expert at it. I think it is an interesting data point but far more interesting is a disgruntled wife, SKY has one of those, or a former rider like Flecha spilling the beans.

The weight thing makes no sense to me. There is clearly something going on but none of the people I talk to can figure it out. Sure some say various substances but nothing that is traceable or had been found on anyone.

I have written all of this several times, often with far more detail, but some like to pretend I have not.

Not directed at you but I am sure others will flame away but don't expect me to respond. Really tired of the endless nonsense here

Sure Uran's doctor sucked big time before!

His new Doctor for the Giro, whomever that is, and he has to be different to the one that he was using before, is a lot better because he was ripping everybody apart. His performances were so eye opening that he was off the power scales in my calculations.

Race Radio, I am not naive to know that Colombians dope as much as other riders from other countries, but if I am going to pick a rider or performances from Colombian riders as a reference for doping surely is not going to be Uran. In fact you could have picked any other Colombian and I could have believed you. But Uran, really.
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27 Feb 2014 10:27

1 I have no hope that many of current and former riders tell the truth about their doping knowledge or doping past
2 if they do they are OUT: Frei, Jaksche, Landis...
3 that's the way the system works not only from Pro level, but before. many real clean riders maybe have not even done it to U23.
4 example: would I slash O'Grady if I were McGee? no, why? because the clinic and journalist ask me to do that? meh...
4bis: all the other people, using peds or not, witnesses or not, talking or keeping their mouths shut are part of the system anyway. (ex: Phinney, Nieve, Brajkovic, Agnoli, R.Dennis, Quinziato, Tiralongo, just to name a few)
5 the pro cycling world is a closed environment, I don't look at it as black or white.
6 CSC team was a very good example of what Pro cycling is about.
7 do I trust someone or some teams more than other? yes. some examples: Nick Squillari (@tinea_pedis) Jono Lovelock, Avanti Pro cycling team, Giant-Shimano, Matt Brammeier, T. Phinney, Bennett, Wurf, Stephen Farrand...
8 I don't follow races thinking this guy is doped, this one not.
9 I did enjoy Pantani and Big Mig and Museeuw: we had those riders and those riders were making the races.
10 Pro cycling is entertaiment, as any Pro sport.
11. I would be in favour of a clean sport, but it is not doable at the moment, and I don't know if it will ever be. so if it stays like this, either you stop watching or take it for what it is: isn't it great when, on those April Sunday, the tv goes live and we get the first images of cobbles of Valenciennes or the morning break in Bastogne ... we follow the races anyway...
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03 Mar 2014 06:46

BYOP88 wrote:To be fair, Contador could sign for Garmin he'd fit right in.


The Hitch wrote:The negotiations did happen, and JV said he believes Contador is clean because his tests were really really good.

Don't say JV doesn't learn from his mistakes though. His method for telling whether or not Froome is clean is far better thought out and more substantial.

He has seen that Froomies test results are really really good.


Haha :D having a good laugh :)
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06 Mar 2014 10:10

I love Bruce Springsteen and Believe Ivan Basso has been clean for awhile.
Testing the bounds of reality.
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06 Mar 2014 15:52

I prefer mustard over relish.
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13 Mar 2014 10:19

lance Armstrong sad :(
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15 Mar 2014 01:27

[SIZE="2"]It is not my intention to be presumptuous by posting someone else's thoughts in this thread, I just felt that this belonged here.[/size]

Master50 wrote:I have always assumed that while I don't arrive at the same conclusion in this discussion that we are all here for the same purpose.

I will state mine:
To make cycling a better sport and that all results are achieved fairly and according to all of the rules. I think that doping is cheating and as I have also made clear I believe that for a penalty to be fair it must be applied with due process.
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22 Mar 2014 15:32

I have lusted after Diana Rigg.
She has a posh voice.
I like posh voices.
Team GB 2016: victoRIOus, happy and gloRIOus
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22 Mar 2014 15:43

I believe that cheating is inherent in pro and amateur cycle racing.
I still believe that Contador is a special talent, with or without enhancement.
I'd like to believe that Garmin are clean.
I believe that Springsteen must have a come around when classic rock hit a real dead spot or experienced a lull in creativity. Springsteen is terrible.
I believe that Cancellara is a better rider Boonen.
I don't and never have believed in the Myth.
I believe that mountain biking is much more fun than road cycling.
I like Ullrich.
Sagan is the shjt.

Paz Afuera
Past is Prologue[quote][/QUOTE]
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22 Mar 2014 18:10

I would like to go on record also.

While I am a big big fan of Contador, I believe he is a doper. I am sure he doped before his ban, and probably also now though I still have some hope he's clean now. And like papisimo98 in the post above, I believe he is a little bit special :) not just for me but objectively also.

I also think Team Sky and especially Froome are doped to the gills. Froome's transformation is a big mark against them but also the way their statements always seem to contradict each other.
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