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Official Valverde thread.

The Clinic is the only place on Cyclingnews where you can discuss doping-related issues. Ask questions, discuss positives or improvements to procedures.

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18 Jun 2018 16:10

Aye, he’s responded well
rick james
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Re:

18 Jun 2018 16:31

Bot. Sky_Bot wrote:And finally:
Nowadays, he is probably the most famous representative of the darknest era od cycling, bloody bags era.
That's enough to wish him to win nothing, retire as soon as possible.


...and yet you passionately root for a team and a rider that are mirror images of teams and riders of the past that contributed to the sport's dark reputation. The very team and riders that are dominating the sport in stage racing, convincingly beating riders that have shady pasts that many of your ilk claim are still using PED's. This same team that I'm sure deep in the hearts of many blind supporters, believe are doing it clean and by nature of their superior science and other insulting statements used to explain their success.

And the bolded part of your post, I wish the same when it comes to Moscon...the sooner he leaves the sport, the better it will be.
User avatar Angliru
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Re: Re:

23 Jun 2018 06:40

Koronin wrote:
Bot. Sky_Bot wrote:And finally:
Nowadays, he is probably the most famous representative of the darknest era od cycling, bloody bags era.
That's enough to wish him to win nothing, retire as soon as possible.



You want the crazy part about this whole thing? He's actually admitted that his doping ban has greatly extended his racing career. He said this back in 2016 that if he hadn't have had the year and a half forced time off where he was able to mentally turn off he'd have been retired before then and is currently racing on borrowed time.
That might be pile of crap as well. Anyhow, what's crazy about that? Nothing.
Kokoso
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30 Jul 2018 21:28

Bala must be salivating at this years Vuelta parcours. It's often claimed that riders from countries that historically that turn a blind eye (or outright enable) to doping have a distinct clinic advantage at races on their home soil.

How credible is this claim?
Amazinmets87
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26 Aug 2018 21:09

He is back. Looking at his fellow top 10 final GC during the Vuelta where he had his first stage win, 150 years ago, it's a who's who in dopeology. But that we already knew.
User avatar Rollthedice
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Re:

26 Aug 2018 21:37

Rollthedice wrote:He is back. Looking at his fellow top 10 final GC during the Vuelta where he had his first stage win, 150 years ago, it's a who's who in dopeology. But that we already knew.


Same as it ever was. We may have the most geriatric GT winner since Horner. It'd be another blow for the credibility of the Vuelta after Horner, Froome & Cobo (which in my opinion are a trio of ludicrous winners). It's almost like riders feel far more confident that they won't get caught in Spain.
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Re: Re:

27 Aug 2018 00:06

Fergoose wrote:
Rollthedice wrote:He is back. Looking at his fellow top 10 final GC during the Vuelta where he had his first stage win, 150 years ago, it's a who's who in dopeology. But that we already knew.


Same as it ever was. We may have the most geriatric GT winner since Horner. It'd be another blow for the credibility of the Vuelta after Horner, Froome & Cobo (which in my opinion are a trio of ludicrous winners). It's almost like riders feel far more confident that they won't get caught in Spain.

And it doesn't even matter the nationality. Not like the Tour which would rather have crackers winning. :lol:
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Re: Official Valverde thread.

27 Aug 2018 00:54

Dodgy, sleazy past, and may to this day be on some kind of doping regimen - but a very entertaining racer, and furthermore Valverde does not moralize about "a new clean era", or "zero tolerance", nor feign shock about there being doping in pro cycling. He just keeps his mouth shut. That's why his fans see Valverde more as a 'rascal' than a 'villain'. And he is revered by some younger pros such as Lopez or Pantano, they praise Valverde and wanted to be like him when they were starting out in their cycling careers
ClassicomanoLuigi
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Re: Official Valverde thread.

27 Aug 2018 08:44

ClassicomanoLuigi wrote:Dodgy, sleazy past, and may to this day be on some kind of doping regimen - but a very entertaining racer, and furthermore Valverde does not moralize about "a new clean era", or "zero tolerance", nor feign shock about there being doping in pro cycling. He just keeps his mouth shut. That's why his fans see Valverde more as a 'rascal' than a 'villain'. And he is revered by some younger pros such as Lopez or Pantano, they praise Valverde and wanted to be like him when they were starting out in their cycling careers


Yes. I find it baffling that some "fans" of the sport will wilfully endorse brazen cheats and condemn others simply because of their PR stance. You wouldn't do that if someone stole from you or assaulted you - you'd just think that they were a swine.

Cheering the likes of Vino at worlds, Horner in the Vuelta and Rasmussen at the Tour is difficult for some, like me, to grasp. The most extreme, brazen examples of doping bring the sport into disrepute. Valverde has peaked (relative to the peloton) after hitting 35 years of age and that is simply farcical.
Fergoose
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Re:

27 Aug 2018 11:10

Bot. Sky_Bot wrote:And finally:
Nowadays, he is probably the most famous representative of the darknest era od cycling, bloody bags era.
That's enough to wish him to win nothing, retire as soon as possible.



Dunno for this (particularly the "darkest era") but surely he is the most famous representative of Valverde surname in cycling.
I'm late for work on Monday and my boss is bitchin
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Re: Official Valverde thread.

27 Aug 2018 13:22

Fergoose wrote:
ClassicomanoLuigi wrote:Dodgy, sleazy past, and may to this day be on some kind of doping regimen - but a very entertaining racer, and furthermore Valverde does not moralize about "a new clean era", or "zero tolerance", nor feign shock about there being doping in pro cycling. He just keeps his mouth shut. That's why his fans see Valverde more as a 'rascal' than a 'villain'. And he is revered by some younger pros such as Lopez or Pantano, they praise Valverde and wanted to be like him when they were starting out in their cycling careers


Yes. I find it baffling that some "fans" of the sport will wilfully endorse brazen cheats and condemn others simply because of their PR stance. You wouldn't do that if someone stole from you or assaulted you - you'd just think that they were a swine.

Cheering the likes of Vino at worlds, Horner in the Vuelta and Rasmussen at the Tour is difficult for some, like me, to grasp. The most extreme, brazen examples of doping bring the sport into disrepute. Valverde has peaked (relative to the peloton) after hitting 35 years of age and that is simply farcical.


All of those riders where interesting and had panache, who cares if they dope, this sport will always be a cesspool and a freakshow. Pluss everyone loves a underdog, it's that simple
User avatar markene2
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Re: Official Valverde thread.

27 Aug 2018 17:10

Fergoose wrote:
ClassicomanoLuigi wrote:Dodgy, sleazy past, and may to this day be on some kind of doping regimen - but a very entertaining racer, and furthermore Valverde does not moralize about "a new clean era", or "zero tolerance", nor feign shock about there being doping in pro cycling. He just keeps his mouth shut. That's why his fans see Valverde more as a 'rascal' than a 'villain'. And he is revered by some younger pros such as Lopez or Pantano, they praise Valverde and wanted to be like him when they were starting out in their cycling careers


Yes. I find it baffling that some "fans" of the sport will wilfully endorse brazen cheats and condemn others simply because of their PR stance. You wouldn't do that if someone stole from you or assaulted you - you'd just think that they were a swine.

Cheering the likes of Vino at worlds, Horner in the Vuelta and Rasmussen at the Tour is difficult for some, like me, to grasp. The most extreme, brazen examples of doping bring the sport into disrepute. Valverde has peaked (relative to the peloton) after hitting 35 years of age and that is simply farcical.

Vino at the Olympics was different though. That wasn't about cheering Vino so much as all of the pre-race bluster. Pat McQuaid was there to present the gold medal. This was his baby - it was all about the culmination of the rebirth of cycling as a clean sport, with, on the back of the victory for Wiggins in the Tour, was expected to be Cavendish or some other youngish gun that they could get behind as a figurehead for the new, clean cycling. And because by this point most fans were well aware that McQuaid had been at least aware of, and likely complicit in, the whole Armstrong debacle, the idea that he would take credit for the sport's reinvention was loathsome and distasteful for a large number of fans, both those who thought the sport hadn't cleaned up and who baulked at the sight of Sky doing a dead-on impersonation of US Postal in the name of clean cycling all season long, and those who thought the sport had indeed cleaned up but did not like the idea of the very man who presided over much of the sport's worst days taking the credit for it on a global scale. So, seeing it completely blow up in his face as he had to hang the medal round the neck of a man who more or less defined the template for an unrepentant doper, a man they could never claim as the face of the new clean cycling in a million years, was far more satisfying for many fans than it would have been had it just been your everyday one-day race with Vino winning. Remember, self-same Vino was booed to the line in Liège-Bastogne-Liège.
User avatar Libertine Seguros
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Re: Official Valverde thread.

27 Aug 2018 19:29

Fergoose wrote:
ClassicomanoLuigi wrote:Dodgy, sleazy past, and may to this day be on some kind of doping regimen - but a very entertaining racer, and furthermore Valverde does not moralize about "a new clean era", or "zero tolerance", nor feign shock about there being doping in pro cycling. He just keeps his mouth shut. That's why his fans see Valverde more as a 'rascal' than a 'villain'. And he is revered by some younger pros such as Lopez or Pantano, they praise Valverde and wanted to be like him when they were starting out in their cycling careers


Yes. I find it baffling that some "fans" of the sport will wilfully endorse brazen cheats and condemn others simply because of their PR stance. You wouldn't do that if someone stole from you or assaulted you - you'd just think that they were a swine.

Cheering the likes of Vino at worlds, Horner in the Vuelta and Rasmussen at the Tour is difficult for some, like me, to grasp. The most extreme, brazen examples of doping bring the sport into disrepute. Valverde has peaked (relative to the peloton) after hitting 35 years of age and that is simply farcical.


nobody thinks they been stolen from...everyone in the pro ranks knows the score...everyone

edited for common sense below

the above excludes Froome...he's stolen from everyone...
gillan1969
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Re: Official Valverde thread.

27 Aug 2018 19:48

ClassicomanoLuigi wrote:Dodgy, sleazy past, and may to this day be on some kind of doping regimen - but a very entertaining racer, and furthermore Valverde does not moralize about "a new clean era", or "zero tolerance", nor feign shock about there being doping in pro cycling. He just keeps his mouth shut. That's why his fans see Valverde more as a 'rascal' than a 'villain'. And he is revered by some younger pros such as Lopez or Pantano, they praise Valverde and wanted to be like him when they were starting out in their cycling careers



To add more to the bolded comment, for many young Spaniards starting or even in the middle of their careers he's a hero. Several of the young Spaniards as Movistar have said that they are lucky to get the chance to race with him and learn from him. This year Landa said to a Spanish reporter that several years ago he had the chance to race with Contador and didn't take it. Now Contador is retired. When Movistar offered him a contract he said he had to take it and he'd have regretted it for the rest of his life if he didn't. He missed an opportunity to learn from Contador he couldn't miss an opportunity to learn from Valverde. He said they are his heroes and you just don't get the chance to race with and learn from your hero very often.
One other point is Valverde is very well liked throughout the entire peloton.
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Re: Official Valverde thread.

27 Aug 2018 22:13

Libertine Seguros wrote:
Fergoose wrote:
ClassicomanoLuigi wrote:Dodgy, sleazy past, and may to this day be on some kind of doping regimen - but a very entertaining racer, and furthermore Valverde does not moralize about "a new clean era", or "zero tolerance", nor feign shock about there being doping in pro cycling. He just keeps his mouth shut. That's why his fans see Valverde more as a 'rascal' than a 'villain'. And he is revered by some younger pros such as Lopez or Pantano, they praise Valverde and wanted to be like him when they were starting out in their cycling careers


Yes. I find it baffling that some "fans" of the sport will wilfully endorse brazen cheats and condemn others simply because of their PR stance. You wouldn't do that if someone stole from you or assaulted you - you'd just think that they were a swine.

Cheering the likes of Vino at worlds, Horner in the Vuelta and Rasmussen at the Tour is difficult for some, like me, to grasp. The most extreme, brazen examples of doping bring the sport into disrepute. Valverde has peaked (relative to the peloton) after hitting 35 years of age and that is simply farcical.

Vino at the Olympics was different though. That wasn't about cheering Vino so much as all of the pre-race bluster. Pat McQuaid was there to present the gold medal. This was his baby - it was all about the culmination of the rebirth of cycling as a clean sport, with, on the back of the victory for Wiggins in the Tour, was expected to be Cavendish or some other youngish gun that they could get behind as a figurehead for the new, clean cycling. And because by this point most fans were well aware that McQuaid had been at least aware of, and likely complicit in, the whole Armstrong debacle, the idea that he would take credit for the sport's reinvention was loathsome and distasteful for a large number of fans, both those who thought the sport hadn't cleaned up and who baulked at the sight of Sky doing a dead-on impersonation of US Postal in the name of clean cycling all season long, and those who thought the sport had indeed cleaned up but did not like the idea of the very man who presided over much of the sport's worst days taking the credit for it on a global scale. So, seeing it completely blow up in his face as he had to hang the medal round the neck of a man who more or less defined the template for an unrepentant doper, a man they could never claim as the face of the new clean cycling in a million years, was far more satisfying for many fans than it would have been had it just been your everyday one-day race with Vino winning. Remember, self-same Vino was booed to the line in Liège-Bastogne-Liège.


I did not care about Vino winning that much when he just won. I was just laughing my *** off due to fact that he likely bought the gold medal. However, after seeing this reaction from British press, I started to cheer for his win.

Image
burning
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28 Aug 2018 01:03

Was that real????
That would be the worst journalism in the sports of cycling that I ever seen. LOL.
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Re: Official Valverde thread.

28 Aug 2018 01:34

burning wrote:I did not care about Vino winning that much when he just won. I was just laughing my *** off due to fact that he likely bought the gold medal. However, after seeing this reaction from British press, I started to cheer for his win.
That's awesome, I laughed as well now, because I never saw that before. Anyone other than Cavendish is defined as a "Nobody", apparently.

For sure I would believe the Vino bribery in Liège-Bastogne-Liège, but my opinion is both Urán and Vino deserved more credit than that in the Olympics. I was watching that Olympic Road Race live, and I remember when Vino faked-out Urán at the very end, that was like a crit move, which is hard to simulate. Treachery but not bribery
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Re: Official Valverde thread.

28 Aug 2018 07:59

gillan1969 wrote:
Fergoose wrote:
ClassicomanoLuigi wrote:Dodgy, sleazy past, and may to this day be on some kind of doping regimen - but a very entertaining racer, and furthermore Valverde does not moralize about "a new clean era", or "zero tolerance", nor feign shock about there being doping in pro cycling. He just keeps his mouth shut. That's why his fans see Valverde more as a 'rascal' than a 'villain'. And he is revered by some younger pros such as Lopez or Pantano, they praise Valverde and wanted to be like him when they were starting out in their cycling careers


Yes. I find it baffling that some "fans" of the sport will wilfully endorse brazen cheats and condemn others simply because of their PR stance. You wouldn't do that if someone stole from you or assaulted you - you'd just think that they were a swine.

Cheering the likes of Vino at worlds, Horner in the Vuelta and Rasmussen at the Tour is difficult for some, like me, to grasp. The most extreme, brazen examples of doping bring the sport into disrepute. Valverde has peaked (relative to the peloton) after hitting 35 years of age and that is simply farcical.


nobody thinks they been stolen from...everyone in the pro ranks knows the score...everyone

edited for common sense below

the above excludes Froome...he's stolen from everyone...


The 120 riders who finished second to Valverde in all his victories might disagree. But, I agree that few in the peloton would stand up and claim that they'd been cheated out of wins by dopers!

It's interesting how different riders are perceived (the "rascal" vs "villain" point above). while Vino, LA and CF are the devil incarnate, guys like Valverde continue to get a pass. If Valverde was on Sky and winning uphill sprints at the age of 38 the Clinic would blow a gasket.

I don't really know what to make of Valverde. My best guess is that he's clearly an exceptionally talented racer who is really in tune with his body. Whatever regime he's on is clearly working. He reminds me a bit of Tom Brady in the NFL (who I'm also convinced is pharmacologically assisted).
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28 Aug 2018 09:34

Meh, let's see if he can pull a Horner first.
DanielSong39
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Re:

01 Sep 2018 20:45

That is easily a top 3 bonkers performance for me.

- blocked on the sprint and lost momentum
- gave Sagan and van Poppel 10 or so metres lead
- has a full TdF of daily effort in his legs
- is using energy to chase down bonus seconds on a daily basis
- smokes past all opposition and wins by a bike length

I think plenty riders will feel robbed. How are men in their physical prime (who are apparently all doping according to some) being beaten by a middle aged man? Benjamin Button is a good nickname for him, but anti-doping hero Dave Millar thinks Valverde is riding purely on natural energy, so who am I to doubt it?

Time to change best young rider to 35yrs and below?

Escarabajo wrote:Was that real????
That would be the worst journalism in the sports of cycling that I ever seen. LOL.


You should read more of the Daily Mail if you want to experience the worst of journalism in all spheres. That headline is just another example of their blinkered jingoistic idiocy.
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