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Official Valverde thread.

The Clinic is the only place on Cyclingnews where you can discuss doping-related issues. Ask questions, discuss positives or improvements to procedures.

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20 Apr 2016 21:40

Valverde is still young. He'll reach physical maturity in his 40s, such as Chris Horner...
User avatar lenric
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Re: Official Valverde thread.

20 Apr 2016 21:59

DFA123 wrote:
Benotti69 wrote:
TourOfTexas wrote:If I was Alaphilippe, I would tell the cameras, "I do not feel bad to have been beaten by this doper. The history books may have his name at the top but I am the real winner."


that would not be a wise comment to make when riding for Lefevere and his Doc, Ibauguren....... :rolleyes:

It wouldn't be a wise comment to make even if he were clean. The omerta lives and he'd become persona non-grata pretty quickly.


on the other hand, we badly need new Delion/Bassons for the New Clean Era (instead of these self appointed ambassadors and etalons of clean cycling)
doperhopper
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Re:

21 Apr 2016 02:59

lenric wrote:Valverde is still young. He'll reach physical maturity in his 40s, such as Chris Horner...


He would be bald if not for the hair implements. Horner and Valverde are showing the way for viral older men, life really does begin at 37 and a half. Dawg Froome to win his 9th Tour at 37.
User avatar thehog
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Re:

21 Apr 2016 12:11

lenric wrote:Valverde is still young. He'll reach physical maturity in his 40s, such as Chris Horner...


I was thinking the same thing. :D

thehog wrote:
He would be bald if not for the hair implements. Horner and Valverde are showing the way for viral older men, life really does begin at 37 and a half. Dawg Froome to win his 9th Tour at 37.


And his 10th at 38, and his 11th at 39, and his 12th at 40, and . . . .
2016: Year of the Red Fire Monkey
User avatar Maxiton
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21 Apr 2016 23:57

Careers in classics can be maintained longer than GT careers but Valverde has managed to do well in both at his age. His Fleche win never looked in doubt. It's the perfect race for him of course but it looked ridiculously easy and after the race he looked like he had been a on a training ride. There are probably only about three riders who could challenge him in a hilly race at the moment and most of those are veterans as well like Rodriguez, Gerrans and Martin. Allaphillipe seems to be the only younger rider in the mix. Like others have noted Valverde looks better after his drug ban and his results support that. Be interesting if he wins the Vuelta again to compare the reaction to the reaction of Horner's win in the same race.
movingtarget
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29 Aug 2016 15:38

lol he's going to podium this race isn't he
blackcat wrote:you must respect the Cobra, a man who can give himself his own nickname. he trancends hubris.
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29 Aug 2016 15:40

Valverde's results merely add to the growing body of evidence that cycling is now clean, especially at the top end.
sniper
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29 Aug 2016 15:44

You mean everybody is clean but Valverde is doping

You can probably convince me that most of the peloton is clean before I believe it about Valverde.
blackcat wrote:you must respect the Cobra, a man who can give himself his own nickname. he trancends hubris.
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29 Aug 2016 15:45

Even at 36 he's probably got another GT win in him if he left Movistar. Makes Contador's premature decline all the more surprising
Bwlch y Groes
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Re:

29 Aug 2016 17:49

lenric wrote:Valverde is still young. He'll reach physical maturity in his 40s, such as Chris Horner...


Unlike Horner, Valverde had a steady stream of high end results throughout his career. Horner never saw a grand tour podium or monument/classic podium in his entire career before his Vuelta win. It's likely he will run out of gas eventually just like he did at the ORR.

**By the way, yes I know you were being sarcastic. :)
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29 Aug 2016 18:09

Only two cyclists have finished in the top ten of all three Grand Tours in the same season. Raphaël Géminiani in 1955 was the first to achieve this feat with 6th in the Tour, 4th in the Giro and 3rd in the Vuelta.

Gastone Nencini was 6th in the Tour, 1st in the Giro and 9th in the Vuelta, in 1957.

Valverde was 6th in the Tour also, 3rd in the Giro and looking good for another podium in the Vuelta.
Zypherov
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29 Aug 2016 18:37

Valverde coming back stronger after his doping ban has created some amusing occurrences where some followers of cycling had to invoke that rats-on-steroids study to insinuate that doping enhances long after it's stopped. Cos, you know, it's the clean era now so clean Valverde must be still be benefiting from some blood bag injected half a decade ago. :lol:
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Re:

29 Aug 2016 18:53

SeriousSam wrote:Valverde coming back stronger after his doping ban has created some amusing occurrences where some followers of cycling had to invoke that rats-on-steroids study to insinuate that doping enhances long after it's stopped. Cos, you know, it's the clean era now so clean Valverde must be still be benefiting from some blood bag injected half a decade ago. :lol:


Like a fine Rjoica wine, Valverde is maturing into a fine cyclist with better powers of recovery. It will be interesting to see how far he take his career. I foresee the only person to stop him becoming a great cyclist would the return of young Tommy D.
User avatar thehog
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Re: Official Valverde thread.

29 Aug 2016 20:51

Valverde is the gift that keeps on giving, isn't he? IMO, it wouldn't be out of place to compare him with Vinokourov. One of the main differences was that Vinokourov had the freedom to do whatever he wanted in the latter stages of his career. And Movistar don't seem to have too much of an issue on who to work for and when to attack/not attack, unlike Telekom/T-Mobile, which had, at one stage, Ullrich, Kloeden and Vinokourov as potential team leaders, even though Ullrich was always going to be the team leader.
BullsFan22
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Re:

30 Aug 2016 08:16

SeriousSam wrote:Valverde coming back stronger after his doping ban has created some amusing occurrences where some followers of cycling had to invoke that rats-on-steroids study to insinuate that doping enhances long after it's stopped. Cos, you know, it's the clean era now so clean Valverde must be still be benefiting from some blood bag injected half a decade ago. :lol:

That didn't work for Contador, Schleck, Sanchez or anyone else around Valverde's generation though
A 13-year long peak is pretty impressive even with doping
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30 Aug 2016 10:44

I get the impression that Valverde is one of those riders who would have dominated everything with or without doping. He has a base level that other dopers have to peak (in addition to their doping) just to get to. His rounded power profile is something that doping can only accentuate; doping alone can't suddenly give an aerobic diesel the ability to sprint or put out incredible anaerobic power - you have to have some kind of existing fast twitch fibres and natural ability. Plus his record as a junior suggests he's not solely some kind of mutant super-responder - unless he was doping since he was about 10.

He can probably feel slightly hard done by that he grew up in an era where doping was necessary.
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Re:

30 Aug 2016 14:35

DFA123 wrote:I get the impression that Valverde is one of those riders who would have dominated everything with or without doping. He has a base level that other dopers have to peak (in addition to their doping) just to get to. His rounded power profile is something that doping can only accentuate; doping alone can't suddenly give an aerobic diesel the ability to sprint or put out incredible anaerobic power - you have to have some kind of existing fast twitch fibres and natural ability. Plus his record as a junior suggests he's not solely some kind of mutant super-responder - unless he was doping since he was about 10.

He can probably feel slightly hard done by that he grew up in an era where doping was necessary.


Lol, without doping Valverde would have been nowhere. He's a mediocre climber without the correct stuff. He's certainly not clean now.

Cycling at the junior ranks is dirty as **** as well. Just ask Squinzi.
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Re: Re:

30 Aug 2016 14:45

El Pistolero wrote:
DFA123 wrote:I get the impression that Valverde is one of those riders who would have dominated everything with or without doping. He has a base level that other dopers have to peak (in addition to their doping) just to get to. His rounded power profile is something that doping can only accentuate; doping alone can't suddenly give an aerobic diesel the ability to sprint or put out incredible anaerobic power - you have to have some kind of existing fast twitch fibres and natural ability. Plus his record as a junior suggests he's not solely some kind of mutant super-responder - unless he was doping since he was about 10.

He can probably feel slightly hard done by that he grew up in an era where doping was necessary.


Lol, without doping Valverde would have been nowhere. He's a mediocre climber without the correct stuff. He's certainly not clean now.

Cycling at the junior ranks is dirty as **** as well. Just ask Squinzi.

Well, one of the great tragedies of the blood doping era is that we genuinely can never tell who are the real natural talents. To me though, everything points to Valverde being one of them. It's the riders who just have these huge aerobic engines and not much else who are most suspicious imo - the likes of Wiggins, Basso and Contador. Aerobic endurance is the physiological factor most influenced and improved by blood doping. Anaerobic ability and sprinting is improved as well of course, but to nowhere near the same extent.
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Re:

30 Aug 2016 14:57

DFA123 wrote:I get the impression that Valverde is one of those riders who would have dominated everything with or without doping. He has a base level that other dopers have to peak (in addition to their doping) just to get to. His rounded power profile is something that doping can only accentuate; doping alone can't suddenly give an aerobic diesel the ability to sprint or put out incredible anaerobic power - you have to have some kind of existing fast twitch fibres and natural ability. Plus his record as a junior suggests he's not solely some kind of mutant super-responder - unless he was doping since he was about 10.

He can probably feel slightly hard done by that he grew up in an era where doping was necessary.


He has a base level?????? You know this. how?

Piti has been riding a bike a long time and taking a lot of PEDS. He is, imo, a great responder, but he still only has 1 GT to his name, so whether he doesn't over do it or he made a decision never to test positive and plans his program around what can be tested for. He appears to be a seriously smart doper.
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Re: Re:

30 Aug 2016 15:25

Benotti69 wrote:
DFA123 wrote:I get the impression that Valverde is one of those riders who would have dominated everything with or without doping. He has a base level that other dopers have to peak (in addition to their doping) just to get to. His rounded power profile is something that doping can only accentuate; doping alone can't suddenly give an aerobic diesel the ability to sprint or put out incredible anaerobic power - you have to have some kind of existing fast twitch fibres and natural ability. Plus his record as a junior suggests he's not solely some kind of mutant super-responder - unless he was doping since he was about 10.

He can probably feel slightly hard done by that he grew up in an era where doping was necessary.


He has a base level?????? You know this. how?

Piti has been riding a bike a long time and taking a lot of PEDS. He is, imo, a great responder, but he still only has 1 GT to his name, so whether he doesn't over do it or he made a decision never to test positive and plans his program around what can be tested for. He appears to be a seriously smart doper.

No question that he has found a doping regime that works for him and he responds well. But there are certain things that doping can only help to some extent. It can't give you such a well-rounded power profile, and it can only improve your bike handling to a very limited extent. Also, no other of the big fish dopers in the EPO era have been able to maintain an eight month peak, being competitive in one day races and GTs throughout. All of those suggests he has a lot of natural talent and cycling ability. His level of recovery, even with doping, is pretty unique - suggesting a very high base level.
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