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Official Valverde thread.

The Clinic is the only place on Cyclingnews where you can discuss doping-related issues. Ask questions, discuss positives or improvements to procedures.

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08 Apr 2017 17:07

The guy is a joke at this point. We need he, Gilbert, and papa Horner against each other to get a fair approximation of full human potential. This feels like I'm watching races from the 90's again.
The poster formerly known as yespatterns.
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08 Apr 2017 17:58

Somebody noticed that when he speaks about the races and wins he always uses plural, like "we achieved, we did a good race". He must be speaking on behalf of his doctor, his dealer, his connections with the Spanish ADA and UCI and his dog, Piti which I am not sure it's still alive.
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Re:

08 Apr 2017 18:30

Rollthedice wrote:Somebody noticed that when he speaks about the races and wins he always uses plural, like "we achieved, we did a good race". He must be speaking on behalf of his doctor, his dealer, his connections with the Spanish ADA and UCI and his dog, Piti which I am not sure it's still alive.

It says the one with a Nibali photo in his account.
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Re:

08 Apr 2017 18:45

Rollthedice wrote:Somebody noticed that when he speaks about the races and wins he always uses plural, like "we achieved, we did a good race". He must be speaking on behalf of his doctor, his dealer, his connections with the Spanish ADA and UCI and his dog, Piti which I am not sure it's still alive.


Thank you. I drop in to see the result of the Pais Vasco expecting Contador to have easily overhauled the time gap instead Valverde puts another 12 seconds into AC WTF. 37 years of age and riding stronger than ever as we know from not just his TTs but the climbing data posted elsewhere.
My only explanation is Valverde has reinvigorated the political connections he had established between 2006 and 2010. But why Valverde?
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Re: Re:

08 Apr 2017 18:48

Fernandez wrote:
Rollthedice wrote:Somebody noticed that when he speaks about the races and wins he always uses plural, like "we achieved, we did a good race". He must be speaking on behalf of his doctor, his dealer, his connections with the Spanish ADA and UCI and his dog, Piti which I am not sure it's still alive.

It says the one with a Nibali photo in his account.

Silly. Nibali is 32 - still near top of his physiological prime. Valverde 37 and riding as strong as 2005. Ridiculous.
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Re: Re:

08 Apr 2017 19:31

Fernandez wrote:
Rollthedice wrote:Somebody noticed that when he speaks about the races and wins he always uses plural, like "we achieved, we did a good race". He must be speaking on behalf of his doctor, his dealer, his connections with the Spanish ADA and UCI and his dog, Piti which I am not sure it's still alive.

It says the one with a Nibali photo in his account.


Oddly enough, I also like Valverde a lot.
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Re:

08 Apr 2017 20:26

Irondan wrote:Wow, Valverde has a secret that the peloton would give anything to know what it is...

FFS, he's the best rider in the world right now!


As he was in 2014 and 2015.. :rolleyes:
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08 Apr 2017 20:33

El Pistolero wrote:
Netserk wrote:I hope Sagan rides as well (and Greg too). Imagine those four getting away on Keutenberg.


Yeah, cobbled classic specialists need to race AGR as well, to show those hilly losers who's boss. :lol:

GVA was strong there in 2015. So I hope he doesn't win Roubaix because that increases his chances of riding there.


Yeah, I remember this cobbled giants race this ****** hilly races, and of course they couldn't do nothing. I would like to see them again, to have a good laugh :lol: In fact, former very successful hilly rider who can't contest this races anymore at the highest level, went to this cobbled races and trashed all this cobbled specialists. I just can't wait...
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Re: Re:

08 Apr 2017 21:41

Mr.White wrote:
El Pistolero wrote:
Netserk wrote:I hope Sagan rides as well (and Greg too). Imagine those four getting away on Keutenberg.


Yeah, cobbled classic specialists need to race AGR as well, to show those hilly losers who's boss. :lol:

GVA was strong there in 2015. So I hope he doesn't win Roubaix because that increases his chances of riding there.


Yeah, I remember this cobbled giants race this ****** hilly races, and of course they couldn't do nothing. I would like to see them again, to have a good laugh :lol: In fact, former very successful hilly rider who can't contest this races anymore at the highest level, went to this cobbled races and trashed all this cobbled specialists. I just can't wait...


Not sure what you're talking about, most cobbled classic specialists have never bothered with this race.

I do remember Edvald Boasson Hagen trashing Valverde in the sprint for second at the World Championships in Valkenburg. Degenkolb was fourth, Lars Boom fifth, Allan Davis sixth, Boonen 12th.

Boonen never started in the Amstel Gold Race, he did get his yellow jersey on a stage finishing in Valkenburg that featured the Cauberg in the finale. Cancellara only entered AGR twice, once in 2004 and once in 2011 (where he crashed in the finale). Kristoff and Degenkolb both only entered it once when they were still very young. GVA has entered it numerous times, but always in function of Philippe Gilbert. His best result is a fifth place in 2015 (where he was very aggressive in the finale and could have won had he not rode for Gilbert).

Valverde really is very lucky that he's the only guy with a sprint that targets these hilly races. That's what makes the cobbled classics much more interesting. There are loads of guys with a fast sprint: Peter Sagan, Tom Boonen, John Degenkolb, Alexander Kristoff, etc.

AGR will be interesting this year.
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Re:

08 Apr 2017 22:40

DFA123 wrote:Looks to me like the great training effect from riding at the sharp end of three GTs in one season, is reaping its rewards for Valverde this spring. That, along with pretty weak opposition, seems the most logical explanation for his great results.

I struggle to believe his doping has radically changed - he's in his late 30s and was already at an insane level before this season, consistently winning big races - why mess around with the program that he had?


I think the peculiar nature of today's anti-doping testing makes finding the limits more complicated for a rider. I think it's one possibility why we see flash in the pan standout performances: riders taking an extra risk in their doping cocktail for the big result. (Cobo, Horner, 2011 Gilbert, etc) IMO historically there are more "out of nowhere" performances when the doping methods are in a transitional period, like the early 90s (EPO introduced) or 2001-2004 (EPO test introduced) or 2008-present (passport). If the competition is all close to the the limit of potential in doping, it's not as possible for a relatively unknown rider to come along and beat them all with a better program.

Valverde has had so many years to continually develop political connections, doctor connections, and fine tune a doping program. Not saying that this is what he's done... just that it could be possible. At his age too it makes sense to take bigger and bigger risks because the practical consequences of being caught keep decreasing while getting closer to retirement age. Your phrase "mess around with the program" could be changed to "tweaking the program".
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Re: Re:

08 Apr 2017 23:54

Mr.White wrote:
Irondan wrote:Wow, Valverde has a secret that the peloton would give anything to know what it is...

FFS, he's the best rider in the world right now!


As he was in 2014 and 2015.. :rolleyes:


He wasn't the best rider in those years though.
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Re: Re:

09 Apr 2017 00:05

El Pistolero wrote:
Mr.White wrote:
Irondan wrote:Wow, Valverde has a secret that the peloton would give anything to know what it is...

FFS, he's the best rider in the world right now!


As he was in 2014 and 2015.. :rolleyes:


He wasn't the best rider in those years though.

Tell me who had a better spring than Valverde in 2015.
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09 Apr 2017 00:21

The long term doping benefits are the reason why all dopers should be banned for good. Watching Phil & Piti destroying the fields like this is just too much even for me. What a shame.
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Re:

09 Apr 2017 02:29

Jancouver wrote:The long term doping benefits are the reason why all dopers should be banned for good. Watching Phil & Piti destroying the fields like this is just too much even for me. What a shame.



It's not their fault. The UCI made a marketing decision to no longer pursue doping. Piti was watching Froome and Sky rip up the Tour so it made sense that he hit his full program one more time under a lax UCI. Quintana has also stepped aside this year to allow Valverde potentially win the Tour. On his current form it might work, Froome is no where to be seen.
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Re: Re:

09 Apr 2017 03:32

Valv.Piti wrote:
El Pistolero wrote:
Mr.White wrote:
Irondan wrote:Wow, Valverde has a secret that the peloton would give anything to know what it is...

FFS, he's the best rider in the world right now!


As he was in 2014 and 2015.. :rolleyes:


He wasn't the best rider in those years though.

Tell me who had a better spring than Valverde in 2015.


John Degenkolb, no doubt about that one. He was disappointing for the rest of the year though.

But Sagan and Froome were outstanding for the post-spring season.

Green Jersey in the Tour de France + WC RR > FW + LBL
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09 Apr 2017 05:52

thehog wrote:
Jancouver wrote:The long term doping benefits are the reason why all dopers should be banned for good. Watching Phil & Piti destroying the fields like this is just too much even for me. What a shame.



It's not their fault. The UCI made a marketing decision to no longer pursue doping. Piti was watching Froome and Sky rip up the Tour so it made sense that he hit his full program one more time under a lax UCI. Quintana has also stepped aside this year to allow Valverde potentially win the Tour. On his current form it might work, Froome is no where to be seen.


I generally agree with the argument, that Valverde hasn't changed his program, but just faced less opposition and had more luck in races. For me, Valverde has always been doping, and I haven't had an issue with it much. I quite like him.

Doping (or no doping :) ) he is one of the greatest and most impressive rider now and in many years, but I struggle to see him winning the Tour, even though I will not rule out the possibility entirely.
But logically, the man is 36, soon 37, and I cannot see him keeping up with a nuclear Froome (even though he is laying relatively low at the moment) on a super strong Sky-team and a lot of other contenders in top shape both physically and medically.
I just don't believe, that he will go through the race without one or more off-days which will make it very hard for him to win it. Even if he is doping harder in recent years. He will top 10 it as always though, I am sure.

But Horner won La Vuelta, so anything is possible.
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Re: Re:

09 Apr 2017 06:10

El Pistolero wrote:
Mr.White wrote:
Irondan wrote:Wow, Valverde has a secret that the peloton would give anything to know what it is...

FFS, he's the best rider in the world right now!


As he was in 2014 and 2015.. :rolleyes:


He wasn't the best rider in those years though.


Yes he was.
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09 Apr 2017 07:37

So why didn't he win Velo d'Or any year? He only got 2nd once, in 2006...
Goodbye, Tommeke; thank you for all you have given us!
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Re:

09 Apr 2017 07:59

Netserk wrote:So why didn't he win Velo d'Or any year? He only got 2nd once, in 2006...

Is that a proper measuring stick for who is the best rider? I see it as a 2nd and delayed Tour de France trophy assuming you don't have a Gilbert 2011-esque season.
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09 Apr 2017 08:55

7 of the last 12 winners didn't win the Tour...
Goodbye, Tommeke; thank you for all you have given us!
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