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Official Valverde thread.

The Clinic is the only place on Cyclingnews where you can discuss doping-related issues. Ask questions, discuss positives or improvements to procedures.

Moderators: Irondan, Eshnar, Red Rick, Valv.Piti, Pricey_sky, Tonton, King Boonen

24 Mar 2017 18:46

I've actually gotten to like Piti over the last few years, but c'mon, today wasn't exactly a normal day for him.
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24 Mar 2017 18:59

Actually when he was about 35 years old in TdF 2015 he began climbing better than he did in a decade. But what he did today was jaw dropping. The whole Movistar stepped up big time, Unzue finally got dem marginal gains right. The whole damn peloton seem like they're back on rocket fuel. An average of 400+ watts for half an hour will net you a top twenty place.
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Re: Re:

24 Mar 2017 19:05

LaFlorecita wrote:
Valv.Piti wrote:
LaFlorecita wrote:
Valv.Piti wrote:I assume your logic is the following: Valverde beating Contador on a MTF -> Valverde must be motordoping

I see motors everywhere. Valverde, Sagan, Van Aert, Froome, even Contador at times. Who knows what the extent of this fraud is :)

Where have you seen motors of Valverde if I may ask?

Today :confused:

When I say I "see" motors everywhere, I mean "see" as in how some people see ghosts; I don't actually see them with my eyes but I could convince myself they're there. I'm "seeing things".

I assumed you referred to 'incidents' like those of Froome, Cancellara and Van Aerts. So its basically just the people that ride their bikes the fastest that are under suspicion for motordope.

I don't really believe that much in motordope. I may be wrong. That said, Valverde is obviously assisted clinically.
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Re:

24 Mar 2017 19:28

GraftPunk wrote:I've actually gotten to like Piti over the last few years, but c'mon, today wasn't exactly a normal day for him.
If his power output was really through the roof ... then yeah, but that isn't clear yet. Could have been the favorable wind conditions.

What we know is that he was a bit better than Froome today, who's building form at the moment, while Contador went all out at P-N. I don't think Contador has fully recovered from that.
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Re: Re:

24 Mar 2017 19:35

18-Valve. (pithy) wrote:
GraftPunk wrote:I've actually gotten to like Piti over the last few years, but c'mon, today wasn't exactly a normal day for him.
If his power output was really through the roof ... then yeah, but that isn't clear yet. Could have been the favorable wind conditions.

What we know is that he was a bit better than Froome today, who's building form at the moment, while Contador went all out at P-N. I don't think Contador has fully recovered from that.


Maybe, it definitely goes under the category of 'things that make you go hmmmmm' for me, but YMMV.
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Re: Re:

24 Mar 2017 19:40

18-Valve. (pithy) wrote:
GraftPunk wrote:I've actually gotten to like Piti over the last few years, but c'mon, today wasn't exactly a normal day for him.
If his power output was really through the roof ... then yeah, but that isn't clear yet. Could have been the favorable wind conditions.

What we know is that he was a bit better than Froome today, who's building form at the moment, while Contador went all out at P-N. I don't think Contador has fully recovered from that.

Also only 25 seconds better than Soler - who was at the front for a long time. And only a minute better than Gaudu and Carthy.

I doubt there is anyone in the clinic would claim Valverde is riding clean, but this is hardly Armstrong or Pantani like levels. Perhaps if he had done it in the third week of a GT at the end of a multi-mountain stage. But this was just a single climb stage in an easyish stage race, and was raced hard from start to bottom - no cat and mouse. Talk of a motor or a new doping programme is a bit premature I think.
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Re: Official Valverde thread.

24 Mar 2017 20:12

http://www.climbing-records.com/

Lo Port-Mont Caro

2017:8,4 km@8,9%---24:04---average speed 20.94 km/h(Alejandro Valverde)
1991:8,4 km@8,9%---26:38---average speed 18.92 km/h(Luis Herrera)

Luis Herrera won the 158.2 km 6th stage from Salou to Mont Caro in the 1991 Volta a Catalunya as above.
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24 Mar 2017 20:28

This performance is likely only partially Valverde and partially the flavour of the season
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Re: Official Valverde thread.

24 Mar 2017 20:32

Zypherov wrote:http://www.climbing-records.com/

Lo Port-Mont Caro

2017:8,4 km@8,9%---24:04---average speed 20.94 km/h(Alejandro Valverde)
1991:8,4 km@8,9%---26:38---average speed 18.92 km/h(Luis Herrera)

Luis Herrera won the 158.2 km 6th stage from Salou to Mont Caro in the 1991 Volta a Catalunya as above.

Again taking one climb without context tells us nothing.
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24 Mar 2017 20:42

What's going on?

Piti riding as this was his last season (or?) and the world ends in November.

All that on top of his usual "top form all year round" trick (small stage races, classics, GTs). Also the whole Movi drilling it as if they were the new ES POSTAL. And then... BUMM, they are brutally punished for few pushes - quite a ridiculous "crime" that gave him basically no advantage... and all that IN SPAIN, when they clearly go for victory (anyone can name at least TEN much worse "crimes" that went unpunished).

And only then our ValvPiti goes full retard, blows the whole peloton away and wins anyway!

I know, Vroom/Bertie are far from top and not really interested, but they are not the only in the bunch. I'm not a fan of Piti, rather the opposite, but have a strange feeling... conspiracy? Double conspiracy?

Maybe Alejandro just wants to cash in whatever possible in spring and then take it easy, we'll see whether he'll go for GC in Grand Tours. Another possibility: just building up for his FullHorner year.
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24 Mar 2017 22:43

Spanish police intercepted Valverde's TdF supply............

1 million hGH doses seized.

Scratching the surface http://www.sportstarlive.com/other-sports/spain-arrests-14-seizes-large-doping-stash/article17618989.ece
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25 Mar 2017 02:14

The new marginal gains are going to be front wings to provide enough downforce to combat the kind of understeer Piti suffered at the last hairpin today. Had to lift off the gas for a long time to steer safely up the mountain.
https://youtu.be/_q7a5ZO8nmE
Last edited by TeflonDub on 25 Mar 2017 03:02, edited 1 time in total.
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Re:

25 Mar 2017 02:23

TeflonDub wrote:The new marginal gains are going to be front wings to provide enough downforce to combat the kind of oversteer Piti suffered at the last hairpin today. Had to lift off the gas for a long time to steer safely up the mountain.
https://youtu.be/_q7a5ZO8nmE


Missing F1?
:p
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Re:

25 Mar 2017 02:32

TeflonDub wrote:The new marginal gains are going to be front wings to provide enough downforce to combat the kind of oversteer Piti suffered at the last hairpin today. Had to lift off the gas for a long time to steer safely up the mountain.
https://youtu.be/_q7a5ZO8nmE


The engineering crew for Movistar has improved the engine technology.
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25 Mar 2017 04:10

Yeah. Clearly a tailwind.
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Re: Official Valverde thread.

25 Mar 2017 06:24

rick james wrote:
Zypherov wrote:http://www.climbing-records.com/

Lo Port-Mont Caro

2017:8,4 km@8,9%---24:04---average speed 20.94 km/h(Alejandro Valverde)
1991:8,4 km@8,9%---26:38---average speed 18.92 km/h(Luis Herrera)

Luis Herrera won the 158.2 km 6th stage from Salou to Mont Caro in the 1991 Volta a Catalunya as above.

Again taking one climb without context tells us nothing.


Why not?
+9% grade MTF climbs have well over 11% variation in their winning times depending on their racing contexts?
Would Rolland have beaten Pantani's record up l'Alpe in 2011 if only the context happened to be different?
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25 Mar 2017 06:51

I don't know what Movistar put on their Weetabix but I'd like some ...Geezus! Just saw the last 2 km and well ...
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Re: Re:

25 Mar 2017 11:44

silvergrenade wrote:
TeflonDub wrote:The new marginal gains are going to be front wings to provide enough downforce to combat the kind of oversteer Piti suffered at the last hairpin today. Had to lift off the gas for a long time to steer safely up the mountain.
https://youtu.be/_q7a5ZO8nmE


Missing F1?
:p

I woke this morning to find a lot of other people missing F1, apparently, as the footage of that freewheeling around the final switchback is doing the rounds now.
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25 Mar 2017 12:40

The entire team is good as seen in the TTT not just Valverde. They got their Marginal gains/TUEs/Medical assists correct.
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Re: Re:

25 Mar 2017 13:34

TeflonDub wrote:
silvergrenade wrote:
TeflonDub wrote:The new marginal gains are going to be front wings to provide enough downforce to combat the kind of oversteer Piti suffered at the last hairpin today. Had to lift off the gas for a long time to steer safely up the mountain.
https://youtu.be/_q7a5ZO8nmE


Missing F1?
:p

I woke this morning to find a lot of other people missing F1, apparently, as the footage of that freewheeling around the final switchback is doing the rounds now.

That wasn't oversteer. It was momentarilly stopping pedalling because there was some sand or gravel on the road. Of course, if he would have pedalled hard and skidded off on the poor surrface, I'm sure that would be sign of motor use as well. :rolleyes:
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