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Official Valverde thread.

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Re:

12 Oct 2018 19:15

Libertine Seguros wrote:In fairness to Valverde, though, he is one of the few that can argue water under the bridge regards Puerto; we know he was involved, whether he pretends he was innocent or not we know that, and like only a few others, he's paid the price. Little new can be gleaned from Valverde as far as Operación Puerto is concerned; he isn't going to volunteer anything he doesn't have to, that much is clear, and what are people expecting, that he's going to be sanctioned? Unlike most of the others in Puerto, Valverde, like Scarponi and Basso, actually has been suspended, so apart from stripping a few of his pre-2006 results (and in that instance, which ones? We know that these cases can involve some selectivity, just look at Menchov being stripped of 65th in the Tour but not 1st in the Giro for example) what can they do to him without falling foul of double jeopardy?

The big thing for it is, hardly anybody can pay at this point in time. Valverde is just about the last person from the investigation left of any relevance. I know Mancebo and Sevilla are still active but they've been personae non grata at the top level for a decade and have in reality suffered far more for their involvement than the guys that got bans. They're also 40+ and only competing in distant, less high profile scenes whereas obviously Ally Vally is about as prominent as a rider can get, wearing the rainbow jersey in his sunset like Joop Zoetemelk or something. What are we going to gain from a few post-dated suspensions for the likes of Allan Davis, António Colóm and co.? It's meandered for so long and so many of the actants from a cycling point of view are already well known about, that it's almost faded from relevance at this stage; the known Puerto riders' careers will always have that slight cloud to them. And while there may be something at stake for those who have some of the unknown bags, or knowing definitively who some of the "probably that person but not certainly" bags are, Alejandro Valverde is not one of those people. He's been DNA-matched to a bag, he's been linked definitively to Puerto and he is forever indelibly tainted by it already. Therefore he likely has nothing to fear from this investigation other than repetitious questions he doesn't want to answer and will likely continue to evade in the same manner as always given that he's already told us all he's ever likely to be willing to tell us on the subject.

Most relevant names are probably the non-cyclists that were rumored. Nadal, the Spanish football team, etc
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Re: Re:

12 Oct 2018 19:49

Parker wrote:
Libertine Seguros wrote:In fairness to Valverde, though, he is one of the few that can argue water under the bridge regards Puerto; we know he was involved, whether he pretends he was innocent or not we know that, and like only a few others, he's paid the price. Little new can be gleaned from Valverde as far as Operación Puerto is concerned; he isn't going to volunteer anything he doesn't have to, that much is clear, and what are people expecting, that he's going to be sanctioned? Unlike most of the others in Puerto, Valverde, like Scarponi and Basso, actually has been suspended, so apart from stripping a few of his pre-2006 results (and in that instance, which ones? We know that these cases can involve some selectivity, just look at Menchov being stripped of 65th in the Tour but not 1st in the Giro for example) what can they do to him without falling foul of double jeopardy?

The big thing for it is, hardly anybody can pay at this point in time. Valverde is just about the last person from the investigation left of any relevance. I know Mancebo and Sevilla are still active but they've been personae non grata at the top level for a decade and have in reality suffered far more for their involvement than the guys that got bans. They're also 40+ and only competing in distant, less high profile scenes whereas obviously Ally Vally is about as prominent as a rider can get, wearing the rainbow jersey in his sunset like Joop Zoetemelk or something. What are we going to gain from a few post-dated suspensions for the likes of Allan Davis, António Colóm and co.? It's meandered for so long and so many of the actants from a cycling point of view are already well known about, that it's almost faded from relevance at this stage; the known Puerto riders' careers will always have that slight cloud to them. And while there may be something at stake for those who have some of the unknown bags, or knowing definitively who some of the "probably that person but not certainly" bags are, Alejandro Valverde is not one of those people. He's been DNA-matched to a bag, he's been linked definitively to Puerto and he is forever indelibly tainted by it already. Therefore he likely has nothing to fear from this investigation other than repetitious questions he doesn't want to answer and will likely continue to evade in the same manner as always given that he's already told us all he's ever likely to be willing to tell us on the subject.


For those that don't want to read all this text:

Valverde's already been busted and punished for Puerto, nothing more will effect him



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Re: Re:

12 Oct 2018 19:51

Red Rick wrote:
Libertine Seguros wrote:In fairness to Valverde, though, he is one of the few that can argue water under the bridge regards Puerto; we know he was involved, whether he pretends he was innocent or not we know that, and like only a few others, he's paid the price. Little new can be gleaned from Valverde as far as Operación Puerto is concerned; he isn't going to volunteer anything he doesn't have to, that much is clear, and what are people expecting, that he's going to be sanctioned? Unlike most of the others in Puerto, Valverde, like Scarponi and Basso, actually has been suspended, so apart from stripping a few of his pre-2006 results (and in that instance, which ones? We know that these cases can involve some selectivity, just look at Menchov being stripped of 65th in the Tour but not 1st in the Giro for example) what can they do to him without falling foul of double jeopardy?

The big thing for it is, hardly anybody can pay at this point in time. Valverde is just about the last person from the investigation left of any relevance. I know Mancebo and Sevilla are still active but they've been personae non grata at the top level for a decade and have in reality suffered far more for their involvement than the guys that got bans. They're also 40+ and only competing in distant, less high profile scenes whereas obviously Ally Vally is about as prominent as a rider can get, wearing the rainbow jersey in his sunset like Joop Zoetemelk or something. What are we going to gain from a few post-dated suspensions for the likes of Allan Davis, António Colóm and co.? It's meandered for so long and so many of the actants from a cycling point of view are already well known about, that it's almost faded from relevance at this stage; the known Puerto riders' careers will always have that slight cloud to them. And while there may be something at stake for those who have some of the unknown bags, or knowing definitively who some of the "probably that person but not certainly" bags are, Alejandro Valverde is not one of those people. He's been DNA-matched to a bag, he's been linked definitively to Puerto and he is forever indelibly tainted by it already. Therefore he likely has nothing to fear from this investigation other than repetitious questions he doesn't want to answer and will likely continue to evade in the same manner as always given that he's already told us all he's ever likely to be willing to tell us on the subject.

Most relevant names are probably the non-cyclists that were rumored. Nadal, the Spanish football team, etc



Aye that’s the bigger story than the cyclist that have already been busted, interesting times
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12 Oct 2018 21:22

Of course, and that's the largest part of why it's been treated like it has. If it had just been cyclists and distance runners it'd have been done with long ago. From a cycling perspective there's little to gain at this stage. Everybody's either retired or faded into irrelevance bar the one guy who's already long done with his punishment.
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Re:

12 Oct 2018 21:25

Koronin wrote:When those same blood bags were originally released to WADA. Valverde was asked about it and actually more or less answered the question. His first comment was: "Does this mean it's finally over and you'll stop asking me about it?" He was then asked something about if he was worried about anything new coming out. His response was, "I've already served my time for this. There is nothing more they can do to me, plus there's nothing else to learn about me." He is one of the few who has nothing to worry about as he did serve a ban for it and they can't do anything more to him. Plus the statute of limitations have passed anyway, which surprisingly he never even made reference to.


We know he had blood bags in a fridge with Fuentes. Did he only use epo? Nope so there is a lot to learn about Valverde, but we will probably not get it from CONI this time.
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Re: Re:

12 Oct 2018 22:54

Benotti69 wrote:
Koronin wrote:When those same blood bags were originally released to WADA. Valverde was asked about it and actually more or less answered the question. His first comment was: "Does this mean it's finally over and you'll stop asking me about it?" He was then asked something about if he was worried about anything new coming out. His response was, "I've already served my time for this. There is nothing more they can do to me, plus there's nothing else to learn about me." He is one of the few who has nothing to worry about as he did serve a ban for it and they can't do anything more to him. Plus the statute of limitations have passed anyway, which surprisingly he never even made reference to.


We know he had blood bags in a fridge with Fuentes. Did he only use epo? Nope so there is a lot to learn about Valverde, but we will probably not get it from CONI this time.


Those were his comments when asked. Also those comments are about the most he's actually ever said about it. When I read it, I was shocked he actually answered the questions in the first place.
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Re: Re:

13 Oct 2018 09:18

Red Rick wrote:
Libertine Seguros wrote:In fairness to Valverde, though, he is one of the few that can argue water under the bridge regards Puerto; we know he was involved, whether he pretends he was innocent or not we know that, and like only a few others, he's paid the price. Little new can be gleaned from Valverde as far as Operación Puerto is concerned; he isn't going to volunteer anything he doesn't have to, that much is clear, and what are people expecting, that he's going to be sanctioned? Unlike most of the others in Puerto, Valverde, like Scarponi and Basso, actually has been suspended, so apart from stripping a few of his pre-2006 results (and in that instance, which ones? We know that these cases can involve some selectivity, just look at Menchov being stripped of 65th in the Tour but not 1st in the Giro for example) what can they do to him without falling foul of double jeopardy?

The big thing for it is, hardly anybody can pay at this point in time. Valverde is just about the last person from the investigation left of any relevance. I know Mancebo and Sevilla are still active but they've been personae non grata at the top level for a decade and have in reality suffered far more for their involvement than the guys that got bans. They're also 40+ and only competing in distant, less high profile scenes whereas obviously Ally Vally is about as prominent as a rider can get, wearing the rainbow jersey in his sunset like Joop Zoetemelk or something. What are we going to gain from a few post-dated suspensions for the likes of Allan Davis, António Colóm and co.? It's meandered for so long and so many of the actants from a cycling point of view are already well known about, that it's almost faded from relevance at this stage; the known Puerto riders' careers will always have that slight cloud to them. And while there may be something at stake for those who have some of the unknown bags, or knowing definitively who some of the "probably that person but not certainly" bags are, Alejandro Valverde is not one of those people. He's been DNA-matched to a bag, he's been linked definitively to Puerto and he is forever indelibly tainted by it already. Therefore he likely has nothing to fear from this investigation other than repetitious questions he doesn't want to answer and will likely continue to evade in the same manner as always given that he's already told us all he's ever likely to be willing to tell us on the subject.

Most relevant names are probably the non-cyclists that were rumored. Nadal, the Spanish football team, etc
With the lack of controls in football, blood bags were probably not needed. Don't think football players are connected to the bags.
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Re: Re:

13 Oct 2018 15:39

Bardamu wrote:
Red Rick wrote:
Libertine Seguros wrote:In fairness to Valverde, though, he is one of the few that can argue water under the bridge regards Puerto; we know he was involved, whether he pretends he was innocent or not we know that, and like only a few others, he's paid the price. Little new can be gleaned from Valverde as far as Operación Puerto is concerned; he isn't going to volunteer anything he doesn't have to, that much is clear, and what are people expecting, that he's going to be sanctioned? Unlike most of the others in Puerto, Valverde, like Scarponi and Basso, actually has been suspended, so apart from stripping a few of his pre-2006 results (and in that instance, which ones? We know that these cases can involve some selectivity, just look at Menchov being stripped of 65th in the Tour but not 1st in the Giro for example) what can they do to him without falling foul of double jeopardy?

The big thing for it is, hardly anybody can pay at this point in time. Valverde is just about the last person from the investigation left of any relevance. I know Mancebo and Sevilla are still active but they've been personae non grata at the top level for a decade and have in reality suffered far more for their involvement than the guys that got bans. They're also 40+ and only competing in distant, less high profile scenes whereas obviously Ally Vally is about as prominent as a rider can get, wearing the rainbow jersey in his sunset like Joop Zoetemelk or something. What are we going to gain from a few post-dated suspensions for the likes of Allan Davis, António Colóm and co.? It's meandered for so long and so many of the actants from a cycling point of view are already well known about, that it's almost faded from relevance at this stage; the known Puerto riders' careers will always have that slight cloud to them. And while there may be something at stake for those who have some of the unknown bags, or knowing definitively who some of the "probably that person but not certainly" bags are, Alejandro Valverde is not one of those people. He's been DNA-matched to a bag, he's been linked definitively to Puerto and he is forever indelibly tainted by it already. Therefore he likely has nothing to fear from this investigation other than repetitious questions he doesn't want to answer and will likely continue to evade in the same manner as always given that he's already told us all he's ever likely to be willing to tell us on the subject.

Most relevant names are probably the non-cyclists that were rumored. Nadal, the Spanish football team, etc
With the lack of controls in football, blood bags were probably not needed. Don't think football players are connected to the bags.


Footballers were seen at Fuentes clinic. Blood bags/EPO is very good for recuperation. Juventus players were known to use intravenous techniques at half time in the 90s when EPO was the PED of choice.
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13 Oct 2018 16:41

Well he lost by a mile today, you can relax now.
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Re:

14 Oct 2018 07:01

DanielSong39 wrote:Well he lost by a mile today, you can relax now.


I'm not so sure I think he would most likely pop a positive if tested today. Only after the WC it would be for Champagne and Cake.
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14 Oct 2018 16:08

Yeah, tough to bring your best every time. That's what it would've taken for Valverde to win anyway. Pinot was a monster but surely second place was not out of the question.
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15 Oct 2018 13:49

Literally insane that he's saying stuff like this: "It's you guys [journalists], first and foremost, who give weight to it. Anyone is free to write what they want, but, in giving it weight, you're playing along with that game."

The journalists give weight to him being a convicted doper? lol... He's going to be yelling FAKE NEWS in the next interview.

My opinion of him has somehow only gone down since he won the Worlds.
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15 Oct 2018 14:17

Valverde says "sois vosotros, que le dais trascendencia", which means "give weight" as in "attach importance", not "attach legitimacy" or "make more credible". He's saying it shouldn't matter, not implying that it didn't happen. The nuance is subtle in English but much more explicit in Spanish.
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Re:

15 Oct 2018 18:29

luckyboy wrote:Literally insane that he's saying stuff like this: "It's you guys [journalists], first and foremost, who give weight to it. Anyone is free to write what they want, but, in giving it weight, you're playing along with that game."

The journalists give weight to him being a convicted doper? lol... He's going to be yelling FAKE NEWS in the next interview.

My opinion of him has somehow only gone down since he won the Worlds.


FAKE NEWS is what Cyclingnews is doing all the time concerning Valverde, the true has gone, anyone barely remembers the case, when, how, why, but the only fact CN repeats as a mantra is usually: "Valverde was banned in 2010 after his DNA was matched to one of the blood bag seized in a raid on the premises of disgraced Spanish doctor Eufamiano Fuentes." Bla, bla, bla. Just repeating all over again this mantra the true is never more clear, but people is convinced that since he was banned for two years he was a cheater, and since he doesnt show remorse or prefers to scape the questionning, he continues being a cheater. What an idea of justice people have!!!! (including CN). Hypocrites!
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15 Oct 2018 19:58

ok, let's have your version then
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Re: Re:

15 Oct 2018 20:44

Aguirre wrote:FAKE NEWS is what Cyclingnews is doing all the time concerning Valverde, the true has gone, anyone barely remembers the case, when, how, why, but the only fact CN repeats as a mantra is usually: "Valverde was banned in 2010 after his DNA was matched to one of the blood bag seized in a raid on the premises of disgraced Spanish doctor Eufamiano Fuentes." Bla, bla, bla. Just repeating all over again this mantra the true is never more clear, but people is convinced that since he was banned for two years he was a cheater, and since he doesnt show remorse or prefers to scape the questionning, he continues being a cheater. What an idea of justice people have!!!! (including CN). Hypocrites!

It's not FAKE NEWS when it's 100% true.
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Re:

15 Oct 2018 22:06

hrotha wrote:Valverde says "sois vosotros, que le dais trascendencia", which means "give weight" as in "attach importance", not "attach legitimacy" or "make more credible". He's saying it shouldn't matter, not implying that it didn't happen. The nuance is subtle in English but much more explicit in Spanish.



They aren't very good at translating. It wouldn't shock me if he just start ignoring the questions as he's not going to answer them. It also seems he doesn't believe the questions being asked are legitimate questions.
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05 Nov 2018 17:15

It's messages like these that make me lose all sympathy I have for Valverde again:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/valverde-i-never-tested-positive/

**** off Piti
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Re:

05 Nov 2018 18:43

Dekker_Tifosi wrote:It's messages like these that make me lose all sympathy I have for Valverde again:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/valverde-i-never-tested-positive/

**** off Piti


Taking the Armstrong defence "never tested positive" is an admission ;)
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05 Nov 2018 18:51

Except he's technically correct. He hasn't failed an anti doping test. (LA did and it was covered it). Valverde's issue was having one of his blood bags as part of the group that was taken during the Operation Puerto raid.
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